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TEK Stoney Harmalas Process

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modern said:
I have returned my interest in playing with harmalas again and want to try different acids. Here is the Merck index reference on these... when pure freebase slow crystallization in HOT ethanol seems can make some pretty crystals. Mainly for harmaline but harmine doesn't seem too different. “rhombic octahedra crystals”

Rereading this I think the red crystals I got by adding to a heavy citric acid solution may be HARMALOL "red crystals from water"... It is a small amount compared to the rest of the crystals I got from my caapi.

Lactate monohydrate :) Also sublimate harmine possible it seems but at 260C need vacuum... maybe one day I'll mess around with vacuum distillation.
Click to expand...
Btw you can also make fumarate via FASI, it works much better for purification.
 
So the red crystals are from a heavy citric acid solution when Freebase was dissolved… the second photo is new to me… a brown precipitate from ascorbic acid solution ph is around 5-6 closer to 6.
Harmolalol and Harmol? Red and brown? Idk just guesses really.

From like 6-7g harmalas only 400mg red citrate precipitate which I’m guessing is harmalol and the brown also seems very low amount maybe around same amount. Just guesses really
 

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Prima Materia said:
@modern Can you explain a bit more why do you think this could be harmol or harmalol?
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Total guesses really but red crystals is the description in reference I posted in post #80 in previous page. The brown precipitate I remember being the description for Harmol.

Thinking about it a bit more may also be the same but pH dependent with pK playing a role? The citric acid was 3ish ph while the vitamin c was 5-7ish.

Also considering the portions based on total yields suggest a minor alkaloid and not the main harmine, harmaline, thh.

Months ago I had this citric acid precipitate and was quite interesting. I did a crude TLC but black light color cannot be distinguished alone and rF I don’t think I have a reference.
 
modern said:
Total guesses really but red crystals is the description in reference I posted in post #80 in previous page. The brown precipitate I remember being the description for Harmol.

Thinking about it a bit more may also be the same but pH dependent with pK playing a role? The citric acid was 3ish ph while the vitamin c was 5-7ish.

Also considering the portions based on total yields suggest a minor alkaloid and not the main harmine, harmaline, thh.

Months ago I had this citric acid precipitate and was quite interesting. I did a crude TLC but black light color cannot be distinguished alone and rF I don’t think I have a reference.
Click to expand...
I see.
Did you get this precipitate after the bulk of alkaloids were already collected?
Did you ingest this portion? What kind of subjective effects did you achieve?
 
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Prima Materia said:
I see.
Did you get this precipitate after the bulk of alkloids were already collected?
Did you ingest this portion? What kind of subjective effects did you achieve?
Click to expand...
These we’re from a spent caapi vine I used for tea. I already cleaned up the precipitate using a/b from lye and vinegar to remove impurities when vinegar after first precipitation.

The effects of the red crystals are the same as harmine but never had enough brown precipitate before (would only get small amount suspended in the past) vitamin c makes it precipitate better but still very fine powder. I’ll test again. The red crystals I’m unsure if the same as the red harmalas I’ve seen mentioned in the past on here… (I’ll need to reread those threads)

These are minor alkaloids so idk if individually matters much but personally I’ve always preferred tea over purified extracts and believe the combination makes the difference. Even the sugars and acids in a water extraction change experience over pure… this however is my opinion and preference.
 
So my red precipitate is not the same as the “harmala red” but may be the explanation?

'harmala red' LC-MS analysis

SWIM had a dream. An extract of peganum harmala was made with acetic acid and water. It was basified with sodium carbonate and salt. After precipitation a brown residue was obtained. This was recrystallized once in ethanol. After brown crystals formed they were filtered. The supernatant was...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me

In the post OP had 2% harmalol based on my rough calculations I had close to 6%? Of the total alkaloids. I assume similar to how harmaline even in small amounts can sway the UV color to green the small amount of harmalol affects the color of the extract?

Again all just guesses… I didn’t measure amount of citric acid I used but add enough for ph to be low but don’t need to saturate. Also don’t use excess water just enough to dissolve.
 
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