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Sublingual Mescaline?

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69ron

69ron

Esteemed member
In one of SWIM’s very disappointing mescaline extractions, he was left with about 60 mg of dirty mescaline HCl from about 100 grams. He took it sublingually for 10 minutes and then swallowed it.

To SWIM’s surprise it actually worked. Effects started to kick in after 30 minutes with a smooth relaxed feeling. After about 1 hour SWIM felt his mind get a little cloudy and drifty. After about 1 1/2 hours the relaxed feeling started to give way to a pleasant stimulated feeling. After 2 hours lots of euphoria was felt with an LSD-like excited feeling in the stomach. At 3 hours it peaked with some very slight visual effects. It was VERY NICE. SWIM couldn’t believe that 60 mg of mescaline HCl could produce any effects at all.

60 mg is said to be a below threshold dose for mescaline, however SWIM got definite effects from it.

SWIM was wondering if letting it sit under the tongue had made it more effective.

Is mescaline HCl active sublingually?

If so, is it more potent when taken sublingually?
 
Im not really qualified to answer such a question, and im sorry to answer your question with another question, but what are the advatages of taking stuff subligually?
I mean, iv read on here of reports of subligual administration for things, but what is the advantage of doing that over dissolving the stuff in warm water and just drinking it? Im mainly talking bout DMT here!
 
DMT isn’t active orally on its own and doesn’t appear to be very active sublingually either.

Some drugs are more effective sublingually that orally because it bypasses the digestive system. For example, 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine, harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine are all active orally, but much more active sublingually and with less side effects. So with these there’s clearly an advantage to taking them sublingually.

I want to know if mescaline HCl is more active sublingually like these other compounds are. If that’s the case, much less could be used for the desired effect, and the side effects might also be weaker.

Anyone know?
 
Well your test certainly indicates that mescaline HCl seems to be more potent via the sublingual route of administration. One thing that might be nice to try when more material is available is a few dose response tests. Try 50mg 100mg 150 mg and see how it compares to oral. Of course that would require substantial material but it would be a nice thing for someone out there to try. SWIM is certainly interested in this report because conserving mescaline would be aweomse. Eating a few hundred milligrams of mescaline (a rare substance) is a lot and would be great if dose could be lowered through another admin route.

Did SWIY notice a decrease in nausea? That would be a nice advantage.
 
SWIM doesn't get nausea from mescaline, so SWIM can't comment on that part of it. He's never had a whopping dose though.

SWIM would like to try to see how sublingual compares to oral. The best method would be to try 100 mg sublingually for 20 minutes, and then spit all of it out and wash out your mouth so that none is absorbed orally. Then after a few days compare that to the same oral dose.



The problem is that mescaline is so hard to come by and SWIM doesn’t want to spend a million dollars extracting a bunch of worthless cactus.

Most of the cactus SWIM has used or extracted has had little or no mescaline at all.

SWIM has spent hundreds of dollars over the years only to end up with a few hundred milligrams of mescaline.

SWIM has extracted from San Pedro many times, Peruvian Torch, and even Trichocereus bridgesii. All of SWIM’s extractions of 100 grams or more (dried) have yielded almost nothing. The most SWIM has ever been able to extract from any cactus has been 75 mg per 100 grams of dried cactus.

SWIM is VERY disappointed with every extraction tech he’s tried. None of them yield much at all. I don’t know if it’s the cactus or the techs out there causing such low yields. It is so disappointing.


Unless SWIM somehow gets some cactus with more than 0.075% mescaline in it, he’s probably never going to do any such tests with such little mescaline available to him at such a high price.
 
Yea understandable cacti can vary so much. But yes that kind of test would be ideal. Sounds like you had a nice experience from just 60mg and that is impressive!

Has SWIY been growing own cacti or only buying dried material? Could make a difference. SWIMs friend grows lots of cacti and has reported considerable variation doing the same extraction procedures. Sometimes good stuff sometimes not.

SWIMs other friend has only tried extract mescaline once and was able to yield about 250mg from a few peyote plants. SWIMs friend made some mistakes with salting and blowing up a piece of glass (would have gotten more in other words) but learned a lot. Its tricky to get the salting down and SWIMs friend also noticed that you can keep pulling and salting and pulling and salting and more and more mescaline keeps coming out. Basically keep checking until nothing else is salting out.
 
The problem is that mescaline is so hard to come by
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Well it doesn't just grow on trees! :LOL:

It's grows in cacti!


Most of the cactus SWIM has used or extracted has had little or no mescaline at all.
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That's strange. It sounds like your using really crappy Trichocereus clones.


SWIM is VERY disappointed with every extraction tech he’s tried. None of them yield much at all. I don’t know if it’s the cactus or the techs out there causing such low yields.
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If you used a bunch of different cacti then it must be your extraction. I can cite many chemical analyzations (most of which say Trichocereus has 2% mescaline in the outer green layer. I have personally bioassyed peices of cactus 3 inchs large which have been as potent as 15inch of the crap Trichocereus that goes around. While it varies hugely... it's all about finding the right genetics.
 
SWIM grows his own and also has made many purchases of both dried and fresh cactus.
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Your not stressing your cuttings are you? Your just extracted or eating them after they are freshly harvest... aren't you?

SWIM cannot even buy pure mescaline anymore (it’s all 2C-B or something similar) so he can’t even go that route. It’s cactus or nothing
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Why in the world are you not cultivating potent clones? Theres no need for all this extraction mess... just peel the cactus up and eat the green flesh.
 
[quote='Coatl]
SWIM grows his own and also has made many purchases of both dried and fresh cactus.
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Your not stressing your cuttings are you? Your just extracted or eating them after they are freshly harvest... aren't you?[/quote]

SWIM tried stressing before harvesting. He tried all those tricks he read about. There was still very little mescaline present. It didn’t matter if the cactus was extracted or eaten fresh. Very little mescaline was ever present in all the cactus SWIM tried throughout many years of using cactus.

SWIM’s first attempt at using San Pedro was over 23 years ago. It was crappy back then and is still crappy. SWIM would love to get hold of some cactus that is at least 0.5% mescaline. That would be fantastic.
 
SWIM has the famed KK242 clone growing in his yard. It’s completely worthless crap. You’d have to eat about 5-10 feet for any effects at all so an extraction is required.
 
WHY ARE YOU GROWING THAT PEICE OF CRAP?!

It looks like this doesn't it?

Image63.jpg


The above cactus (Trichocereus cuzcoensis) has almost 0% mescaline! If you have one of these cacti sell it or other wise get rid of it... I tried of people progating the worthless clones like P.C. pachanoi and cuzcoensis!

There are Trichocereus cacti that are 100 times the potency of cuzcoensis!
 
I don't want to get into a debate about cactus, that’s really off topic and deserves it’s own thread. This thread is about sublingual use of mescaline.

burnt said:
Yea understandable cacti can vary so much. But yes that kind of test would be ideal. Sounds like you had a nice experience from just 60mg and that is impressive!

Has SWIY been growing own cacti or only buying dried material? Could make a difference. SWIMs friend grows lots of cacti and has reported considerable variation doing the same extraction procedures. Sometimes good stuff sometimes not.
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SWIM grows his own and also has made many purchases of both dried and fresh cactus. SWIM had good San Pedro one time, but it was eaten fresh, it wasn’t an extraction. It probably contained about 0.5% mescaline judging by the potency of the effects.

SWIM cannot even buy pure mescaline anymore (it’s all 2C-B or something similar) so he can’t even go that route. It’s cactus or nothing :(

burnt said:
SWIMs other friend has only tried extract mescaline once and was able to yield about 250mg from a few peyote plants. SWIMs friend made some mistakes with salting and blowing up a piece of glass (would have gotten more in other words) but learned a lot. Its tricky to get the salting down and SWIMs friend also noticed that you can keep pulling and salting and pulling and salting and more and more mescaline keeps coming out.
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Hmmmm...you can keep pulling and salting many times? Like how many times?
 
I’ve heard that before with respect to peyote. That statement seems to add weight to the idea that it is active sublingually. That could help explain SWIM's good reaction to such a low dose of mescaline.

Has anyone tried pure synthetic mescaline sublingually?
 
I don't want to get into a debate about cactus, that’s really off topic and deserves it’s own thread. This thread is about sublingual use of mescaline.

Your right. Sorry.

I’ve heard that before with respect to peyote. That statement seems to add weight to the idea that it is active sublingually.

Peyote contains many compounds... whos to say the mescaline is the one working sublingually and not one of the other compounds?
 
According to SWIMs friends notes the cacti basic solution was pulled with about 250mL toluene 4-5 times. Each time SWIMs friend pulled the toluene 3x with 1 M HCl about 25mL per pull (sometimes more sometimes less SWIMs friend was experimenting also tried 5M HCl but didn't notice any increase in yield so didn't bother using such a strong solution) and evaporated it down. The yields were 50 50 80 and 60 mgs. SWIMs friend was attempting to do one last pull with 200mL (2 x 100mL) 1M HCl but broke a piece of glass in the process so can't say if more volume of the acid solution would have helped. Anyway SWIMs friend was a bit dissapointed at first but kept pulling and pulling and more and more mescaline kept coming out. There could still be more SWIM must ask SWIMs friend.

Also after doing the acid pulls SWIMs friend reused the toluene.

The pH of basic solution was about 13 and heat was used each time to help facilitate flow of alkaloids from basic water to toluene. SWIMs friend also made a mistake of evaporating down the first pull just to see what the freebase looked like and may have evaporated away some of the freebase :shock:

Peyote contains many compounds... whos to say the mescaline is the one working sublingually and not one of the other compounds?
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SWIMs friend did an analysis of this extract and observed mescaline some compound that looks exactly like mescaline except a methyl group was present (in same position as in an amphetamine) and some unknown. But the odds are they are all absorbing and getting into the blood. See GC-MS analysis thread.
 
I know its off topic. But how did he determine where the methyl group was? Did he run NMR? SWIM has never heard of TMA (Trimethoxyamphetmaine) in cacti. This seems very unlikely, as many people have looked.
How positive is he about the position of the methyl, if from MS, it may be in another position, not on the ethyl chain. Only NMR could determine the position of that methyl. (Maybe IR compared to a known sample).
 
[quote='Coatl]I don't want to get into a debate about cactus, that’s really off topic and deserves it’s own thread. This thread is about sublingual use of mescaline.

Your right. Sorry.

I’ve heard that before with respect to peyote. That statement seems to add weight to the idea that it is active sublingually.

Peyote contains many compounds... whos to say the mescaline is the one working sublingually and not one of the other compounds?[/quote]

Very true. I know that the effects of peyote are very different from pure mescaline, so the other alkaloids are absolutely active at some level. It could very well be that one of the non-mescaline alkaloids are active sublingually. The same could be said for San Pedro and the others. I haven’t really seen any studies on it anywhere.
 
You are right bufoman the position of the methyl group is not known with certainty. That would require isolation and NMR analysis of the compound which simply is not possible at this time.

However a methyl group at that position is a likely position but then again SWIM really doesn't know and wouldn't bet money on it being correct. Check out the MS spectrum if you like. SWIM posted it. The compound was the closest match in a library of 190,000 compounds that's all SWIMs friend had to go on.
 
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