Syrian Rue and Nausea

[Anarkid]

I read that the nausea associated with injesting can be pretty intense. I have read that threshold doses of Syrian Rue alone are anywhere from 2g - 10g. So, given this information, I decided to start on the low end of those figures the other night to experiment with the effects of Rue alone and to gauge my possible nausea in preparation for my ayahuasca brew. I ate 2g of raw seeds. I was also smoking marijuana with a couple friends at this time. Not excessively mind you. Within an hour, I was feeling very strange indeed. However, this is not a trip report or anything of that nature so I'm moving on.

I noticed zero nausea throughout this entire experience. I never once felt like my stomach was in any kind of discomfort. I was up and active, walking about my house, brewing coffee, talking with a couple buddies, letting my dog outside, etc. Now, I have always had an iron stomach. I can count the number of times I have vomited in the last decade on 1 hand.

I was wondering if maybe some other iron-stomach individual could chime in with their Rue experiences and let me know if they did or did not experience any nausea. I have a sneaking suspicion that I may avoid nausea altogether without any aid. Or maybe the marijuana killed whatever nausea I would have developed.

 

[Sabnock]

Take 4 grams of Rue and purge, it'll come. Nausea and purge comes about 3 grams or above. And don't go over 5 grams.

 

[universecannon]

I read that the nausea associated with injesting can be pretty intense. I have read that threshold doses of Syrian Rue alone are anywhere from 2g - 10g. So, given this information, I decided to start on the low end of those figures the other night to experiment with the effects of Rue alone and to gauge my possible nausea in preparation for my ayahuasca brew. I ate 2g of raw seeds. I was also smoking marijuana with a couple friends at this time. Not excessively mind you. Within an hour, I was feeling very strange indeed. However, this is not a trip report or anything of that nature so I'm moving on.

I noticed zero nausea throughout this entire experience. I never once felt like my stomach was in any kind of discomfort. I was up and active, walking about my house, brewing coffee, talking with a couple buddies, letting my dog outside, etc. Now, I have always had an iron stomach. I can count the number of times I have vomited in the last decade on 1 hand.

I was wondering if maybe some other iron-stomach individual could chime in with their Rue experiences and let me know if they did or did not experience any nausea. I have a sneaking suspicion that I may avoid nausea altogether without any aid. Or maybe the marijuana killed whatever nausea I would have developed.

A couple of things...10g is a very high dose and more than almost anyone would ever need to take. 2-6g would be a more accurate range for what people tend to take, with even 6g being a high dose for most people, and more than many would ever want. So don't jump up anywhere near there right off the bat, maybe take 3-4 next time if you want a higher dose.

2g seems like a fairly lower end amount for some people and it's not uncommon for some to not get any nausea on that dose (although for others it can be a powerful psychedelic at that dose, and nauseating. There seems to be a slight reverse tolerance IME).

But rest assured, you will get nausea at some point as the dose increases, regardless of an iron stomach (I have one to), or whether or not your using caapi, rue, or even purified harmala extracts.

While other things in the seeds seem contribute to the nausea, it is also just an effect of harmalas themselves, especially in doses that are psychedelic (even without DMT). It may not necessarily be nauseating at levels that start to inhibit enough MAO to activate DMT, although it often is if you stand up and walk around, and it only gets more intense as the dose increases.

I have noticed weed helps with nausea as well, and it's helped me get unstuck at rough beginning stages of the experience at times.

I'd recommend brewing and/or extracting the rue. The seeds are rock hard, and it could also contribute to more nausea at higher doses. A tea or extract fully absorbs easily without putting your digestive system to work and it kicks in faster. You would probably have gotten more pronounced effects at that dose if it was in tea form or extracted.

Also, side note: some really like the caffeine/harmala mix but be careful as I've heard it can get pretty uncomfortable at higher doses.

Anyways, rue is fascinating and very underrated IMO... Not to mention an extremely interesting psychedelic in its own right.

 

[Anarkid]

I read that the nausea associated with injesting can be pretty intense. I have read that threshold doses of Syrian Rue alone are anywhere from 2g - 10g. So, given this information, I decided to start on the low end of those figures the other night to experiment with the effects of Rue alone and to gauge my possible nausea in preparation for my ayahuasca brew. I ate 2g of raw seeds. I was also smoking marijuana with a couple friends at this time. Not excessively mind you. Within an hour, I was feeling very strange indeed. However, this is not a trip report or anything of that nature so I'm moving on.

I noticed zero nausea throughout this entire experience. I never once felt like my stomach was in any kind of discomfort. I was up and active, walking about my house, brewing coffee, talking with a couple buddies, letting my dog outside, etc. Now, I have always had an iron stomach. I can count the number of times I have vomited in the last decade on 1 hand.

I was wondering if maybe some other iron-stomach individual could chime in with their Rue experiences and let me know if they did or did not experience any nausea. I have a sneaking suspicion that I may avoid nausea altogether without any aid. Or maybe the marijuana killed whatever nausea I would have developed.

A couple of things...10g is a very high dose and more than almost anyone would ever need to take. 2-6g would be a more accurate range for what people tend to take, with even 6g being a high dose for most people, and more than many would ever want. So don't jump up anywhere near there right off the bat, maybe take 3-4 next time if you want a higher dose.

2g seems like a fairly lower end amount for some people and it's not uncommon for some to not get any nausea on that dose (although for others it can be a powerful psychedelic at that dose, and nauseating. There seems to be a slight reverse tolerance IME).

But rest assured, you will get nausea at some point as the dose increases, regardless of an iron stomach (I have one to), or whether or not your using caapi, rue, or even purified harmala extracts.

While other things in the seeds seem contribute to the nausea, it is also just an effect of harmalas themselves, especially in doses that are psychedelic (even without DMT). It may not necessarily be nauseating at levels that start to inhibit enough MAO to activate DMT, although it often is if you stand up and walk around, and it only gets more intense as the dose increases.

I have noticed weed helps with nausea as well, and it's helped me get unstuck at rough beginning stages of the experience at times.

I'd recommend brewing and/or extracting the rue. The seeds are rock hard, and it could also contribute to more nausea at higher doses. A tea or extract fully absorbs easily without putting your digestive system to work and it kicks in faster. You would probably have gotten more pronounced effects at that dose if it was in tea form or extracted.

Also, side note: some really like the caffeine/harmala mix but be careful as I've heard it can get pretty uncomfortable at higher doses.

Anyways, rue is fascinating and very underrated IMO... Not to mention an extremely interesting psychedelic in its own right.

Yes I assumed that the instances of 10g doses I have read about were excessive. I planned on a 3g dose (not brewed, swallowed raw to avoid the awful taste) 30 minutes before my ACRB brew. I also plan on brewing .5g WITH the ACRB for added MAOI insurance. Does that seem excessive for a first time aya experience? Would the 2g suffice for a low end experience or am I in the right territory?

Now, I understand that brewed Rue will work faster and more efficiently but I tried chewing the Rue seeds and I must say, they taste horrible. I could drink the tea if it is really that superior to raw ingestion but I would love to avoid that fowl taste again. I have read that raw Rue may increase the nausea. I'm just not sure which is worse. Nausea and vomiting or that terrible taste.

 

[pitubo]

I noticed zero nausea throughout this entire experience. I never once felt like my stomach was in any kind of discomfort. I was up and active, walking about my house, brewing coffee, talking with a couple buddies, letting my dog outside, etc.

Rue enhances the effects of coffee (and other stimulants). One cup can be like a can. Cautious experiments can be interesting, but be very careful with other stimulants in combination with rue.

 

[starway6]

Soon..Im getting ..peruvian cappi root.. soon.. and wonder what a very low dose of cappi is?
I decieded against rue because its more toxic than cappi.. ive read...
What would a safe low beginning dose of cappi ..[by it self].. be?

 

[universecannon]

I decieded against rue because its more toxic than cappi.. ive read...

As far as I know this is just a rumor. I think it partially revolves around that fact that rue is way more potent and therefore easier to overdo than caapi, and partially because originally people viewed its visicinone and visicine alkaloids as "unwanted" and toxic, when it seems that they are only unwanted if you are pregnant, and they actually have other positive effects apart from that...You can read about that here.

Syrian rue also often has much higher harmaline content than caapi, which might not be quite as smooth feeling as harmine. It's stil not toxic in the amounts people take though.

Sometimes people attribute nausea/purging to "toxicity" (not saying you area), but that's just an aspect of the harmala/caapi/rue experience. A lot of psychedelics get very uncomfortable at doses that are still far below toxic levels.

As for caapi dosages...There are countless threads on caapi/caapi dosing that could advise you on which amounts to start with as a low dose. I'd say around 50g for average potency vine is usually a lower end dose.

 

[Anarkid]

I noticed zero nausea throughout this entire experience. I never once felt like my stomach was in any kind of discomfort. I was up and active, walking about my house, brewing coffee, talking with a couple buddies, letting my dog outside, etc.

Rue enhances the effects of coffee (and other stimulants). One cup can be like a can. Cautious experiments can be interesting, but be very careful with other stimulants in combination with rue.

Thank you for that bit of advice. I haven't read anything (or even thought to search for) anything about Rue and coffee. I don't really drink a lot of coffee so I doubt I'll over do it. I rarely finish an entire cup so I should be fine.

 

[pitubo]

Thank you for that bit of advice. I haven't read anything (or even thought to search for) anything about Rue and coffee. I don't really drink a lot of coffee so I doubt I'll over do it. I rarely finish an entire cup so I should be fine.

I find that more than a cup of coffee two hours before pharmahuasca makes the session too restless for me, spoils it in a way. There are many other foodstuffs that can be unexpectedly multiplied or brought over the threshold by harmalas, eg. licorice root extract, chick peas can have really nasty poisonous effects, or some herbal teas.
-> The case for Diet

Imagine you are used to drinking some herbal tea that happens to contain DMT. You could drink it for years and never notice anything strange about it. Until the day you drink the tea after eating rue...

Always double check the list of medications that may have bad interactions with MAOIs in rue and caapi!
-> Meds to Avoid on Aya

Travel safely, travel far.

 

[poonja]

Interesting you mentioned licorice. I became "addicted" to real licorice and would consume 1.5 pounds over a weekend and I soon began to see my blood pressure spike. Fortunately, my gf is a nurse and suggested that my licorice consumption may be causing the issue and she was right. I'm just glad I was not taking harmalas at the time.

 

[pitubo]

Interesting.. "addicted" to real licorice and would consume 1.5 pounds over a weekend ..

Yeah, it can be really addictive. Somehow it is a great comforter.

I had just a handful (or maybe two) of "kokindjes" and the subsequent pharmahuasca session was very feverish. I also experienced very clearly how my head (mind) for transient reasons wants to eat all kinds of things, not caring for (or being unaware of) the rest of my body that then has to deal with the substances in a much less transient manner.

Edit: Forgot to mention that licorice candy often contains a ton of salt and salmiak, that might have contributed a bit to your bloodpressure.

 

[Anarkid]

Well I foresee no negative effects from licorice for me as I absolutely hate the stuff. Haha. Anyways, I have read plenty about dieting and what not to eat or ingest with Rue. I've just never seen coffee mentioned as a substance to stay away from. I'm sure the stimulant effect of the caffeine would interfere with the whole Rue (or aya) experience.

 

[pitubo]

Well, if you do stumble onto other "interesting" combinations, please do come and tell us.

 

[Anarkid]

Well, if you do stumble onto other "interesting" combinations, please do come and tell us.

But of course. And I'm sure I will as I love treading on ground that no one has tread before. Might get me hurt or killed one day...

 

[Cosmic Spore]

Syrian Rue Toxicity (my experience with a mistakenly large dose).

 

[Sabnock]

Well, if you do stumble onto other "interesting" combinations, please do come and tell us.

I've found an interesting combo, Lemon Balm and Ayahuasca