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taninns and sediment

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olympus mon

olympus mon

Esteemed member
OG Pioneer
my first brewing and dosing of caapi only last week was a 100g 3x3 hour boils ext... i did triple filter the brew but still ended up with a good amount of sediment. i made the mistake of shaking the bottle and drank all 100g's sediment and all. the purging went on for hours out of both ends.
i now know 100g is kind of a large caapi dose but i really think the massive purging was from that sludge. i could see all the tannins in my puke speckled about. there were quite a lot.

i just finished my new brew. i wanted to focus on cleaning up my brew this time around. so i did twice the filtration an decanted 2 times so far 36 hours apart discarding the heavy solid sediment. the tea has 300g caapi reduced very slowly to a water thin tea of 6oz's and has gone from a coffee with cream appearance to a cloudy iced tea. in other words its getting more clearer and oranger.


i am wondering a couple things. ive read all the actives are in the water and not necessarily in higher concentrations in sludge or tannins. is this accurate? ive also read of folks getting their brews nearly perfectly clear with a freeze precipitation! is that possible without loosing potency? will this ease/lessen nausea?
 
Brews that decant are DEFINITELY active and DEFINITELY less nauseating.

However, I have also added water to thick gobs of sludge and reduced, to wind up with yet another perfectly active tea. Hmmmm...

I may have missed this, but how do you acidify?
 
ms_manic_minxx said:
Brews that decant are DEFINITELY active and DEFINITELY less nauseating.

However, I have also added water to thick gobs of sludge and reduced, to wind up with yet another perfectly active tea. Hmmmm...

I may have missed this, but how do you acidify?
Click to expand...

i used water at a p.h. of 3.6-3.8. i use my digital ph meter and ph down solution. it keeps the water completely tasteless.

i brewed my chacruna separate. 100g reduced to 5oz's. its very thick! the bottom 3rd is like a blue/black smoothie almost. is adding this admixture going to strongly increase the nausea? maybe ill just use some freebase dmt converted in citric acid to salt.

im not scared of the purge and actually it was very releasing its just that i was so fucked up and nauseous that i couldn't really enjoy and take it all in. there was a 2-1/2 hours period of just trying to not move so i could get passed the purging. i just don't want to be that sick again that's all. also i plan on drinking 60g caapi this next time rather than 100g. that was a bit much but still an amazing experience and showed me the possibility of healing using aya
 
last night i drank caapi for my 3rd time. 1st time was 100g triple filtered but not decanted in which i drank the sludge,the second was 60g caapi decanted multiple times and felt absolutely no effects, last night was the third time. i drank 100g caapi decanted multiple times. all supply's were the same and brews were done the exact same method 3x3hr boils acidifyed water ext. the only difference was in decanting, in which i got my last tea very transparent looking like a strong iced tea. my diet was the same clean and light each time and all doses were taken at 9:45 pm.

my reason for decanting was to avoid the massive amount of nausea and purging i had on my 1st 100g brew. i also wanted to gather evidence in regards to potency loss when decanting as opposed to just filtered brews. i have read and asked questions in regards to potency loss and nausea and the general consensus other than one person was that potency is not lost and nausea is greatly reduced.

in the limited experience of my 2 100g caapi doses i felt nausea was completely eliminated when the tea was decanted! i felt like a million dollars and nothing but positive sensations.
however as far as potency goes it was significantly weaker. i felt very good and fully functional but was certainly feeling the caapi just at a much lesser degree. if you have read my trip report on my first 100g dose you would read i was very fucked up. movement was difficult, i felt very caapi intoxicated and oev were vivid and frequent. on top of that i purged for hours and hours out of both ends.
in other words totally different experiences.

so this is why im questioning the belief that sediment doesn't hold more actives than the water. it seems like it certainly does, however it comes at a price of increased nausea.

i think im going to try 125g next. id like to achieve close to my first 100g experience level of effects just with less nausea. im ok with using up more vine and drinking 25-50g more per dose to achieve the effects i want without the sickness. although i haven't yet felt the admixtures i feel im really close to finding this sweet spot with caapi. its hard to not start adding the light and stay on coarse with my intentions of learning this medicine. i think it will be worth it though. im just excited to have a full ayahuasca experience!!!!!

love to hear some thoughts. this is tricky stuff because there's so many variables. in trying to learn and not make mistakes from the past namely impatience.
 
Sediments probably makes a brew more nauseating, but when you reach the amount needed to purge multiple times, nausea for a prolonged period is expected, at least in my case. With really strong does of pure harmine, 750mg+, I have had nausea into the next day.

And yes, it is my experience that sediments can contain considerably amounts of actives, more per volume compared to the clear liquid.
 
olympus mon said:
i used water at a p.h. of 3.6-3.8. i use my digital ph meter and ph down solution. it keeps the water completely tasteless.
Click to expand...
I wonder what might be in the pH down solution. It may not be as good if it contains hydrochloric acid;hydrochlorides of harmalas are less water soluble and will form a sludge, that is some actives will definitely be left behind in the decanted brew. Maybe if you use acetic acid the decant will have more actives and the sludge will have much less.

But the taste will be horrid...!

Has anyone noticed whether actives remain in the sludge when vinegar is used during the boiling steps?
 
Infundibulum said:
Has anyone noticed whether actives remain in the sludge when vinegar is used during the boiling steps?
Click to expand...
I used acetic acid when I tested the active sludge theory. Perhaps the harmalas are more soluble in the sludge than in water? Or could it be that sludge can trap actives within it?
 
Infundibulum said:
olympus mon said:
i used water at a p.h. of 3.6-3.8. i use my digital ph meter and ph down solution. it keeps the water completely tasteless.
Click to expand...
I wonder what might be in the pH down solution. It may not be as good if it contains hydrochloric acid;hydrochlorides of harmalas are less water soluble and will form a sludge, that is some actives will definitely be left behind in the decanted brew. Maybe if you use acetic acid the decant will have more actives and the sludge will have much less.

But the taste will be horrid...!

Has anyone noticed whether actives remain in the sludge when vinegar is used during the boiling steps?
Click to expand...
well thats pretty darn interesting.:? i looked on the bottle of ph down made by general hydroponics and i doesnt say what kind of acid it is. i think it is hydrochloric acid though if my memory serves me.

i really dont want to get into using nasty tasting vinegar or lemon juice. maybe ill just skip the acidifying next brew. there is some debate as if its even necessary. so my thinking is if acidifying is debatable then its probably not a major factor in potency but has some validity to the method. the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
 
ragabr said:
Snozzleberry did the experiment and found that, at least using THP, acidified water pulled much better than plain water.
Click to expand...

aggghhh! im so confused! :lol: thanks for the link though. im not sure what to think now.
 
So whats the deal here? I'm beginning my work with the vine today. Should I decant or not? I really would like not to purge, but at the cost of less experience from the brew, I'd rather have a puke bucket handy I think.
 
Never, ever leave the third dimension without a bucket!! And never, ever stumble to the bathroom without your bucket, either. It must never leave your side!! ;)

I decant... I like it better that way. Though, there is still no promise decanting will prevent a purge. I have diluted and re-reduced the sediment to have a second strong tea. If you cook enough for several doses, though, if you need to boost after drinking a decanted brew, it's good to have that second serving there. :)
 
Well as I said I am just starting my work with the vine so I am brewing 90g to find my sweet spot, as per your advice I believe mmm:d. I plan on reducing to a liter or so and drinking it tomorrow evening. This should be plenty for me I think. Adding honey is kosher right?
 
you could reduce it down quite a bit just do it slowly. low heat! i get my 100g caapi down to a small shot glass and shoot it like tequila. the liquid barley touches my tongue just goes down the hatch. :)

couldn't hurt to drink 50g and wait an hour to down the other 40g's. better safe than sorry.

you could add honey but honestly if you just reduce to a shot you dont need anything. it doesnt taste that bad imo but i wouldnt want to drink a liter of the stuff. its just super duper bitter.

have you let the brew decant over night or are you drinking a fresh brew? if you decanted i would advise you to not drink the sludge. some might disagree but i found it increased the nausea by douible or triple.

have a great evening. caapi is such special stuff i hope you come back and tell us about it.
peace
 
I only did one boil today. I'll take your advice on the reducing and decanting. I plan on doing the othe two boils tomorrow and if I get done reducing early enough, freeze decanting and drinking it that evening. I wanted it down to a known amount so I can judge how much it takes to get what I need from it. I'll probably keep the sludge to see how much effect I can get from brewing it. Thanks for all the good advice and I will definitely let you know how it goes.

Love & Light
 
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