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Tetrahydroharmine (THH) sublingually

Migrated topic.
Wow, some heated debate here :)

69ron said:
There’s not a single case of "cheese syndrome" reported for people using caapi or rue. Not a single one. And that is A FACT.
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I have read of several cases regarding people eating foods such as salami after taking ayahuasca, causing the person to develop a splitting headache. I might put up a post on the ayahuasca board about it, so we can get a bit more information.

Another thing, caapi also inhibits mao-b at higher doses. Quite a few people doing ayahuasca takes larger amounts of maoi than most people here on the nexus. I am talking about debilitating doses were you cannot even move.

Another thing is that people have different sensitivities to tyramine. 69ron might just not be that sensitive to it. Not saying there is a reaction here, but it would be nice to find out for SURE.
 
swim had coffee once with harmaloids - other foods too but coffee seemed to make all the difference - on the day of the journey he had 3g rue seeds ground up and eaten - yes this was long ago, before i found this site and its amazing teks - and 3.5g fungus - the next morning swim made coffee and after drinking it very quickly developed a quite strong pressure headache, manageable tho - the coffee was damn strong.
 
Dagger said:
Wow, some heated debate here :)

69ron said:
There’s not a single case of "cheese syndrome" reported for people using caapi or rue. Not a single one. And that is A FACT.
Click to expand...
I have read of several cases regarding people eating foods such as salami after taking ayahuasca, causing the person to develop a splitting headache. I might put up a post on the ayahuasca board about it, so we can get a bit more information.

Another thing, caapi also inhibits mao-b at higher doses. Quite a few people doing ayahuasca takes larger amounts of maoi than most people here on the nexus. I am talking about debilitating doses were you cannot even move.

Another thing is that people have different sensitivities to tyramine. 69ron might just not be that sensitive to it. Not saying there is a reaction here, but it would be nice to find out for SURE.
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Having a headache does not automatically mean the "cheese syndrome". Some people get a headache from smoking just pot. That doesn't mean they have the "cheese syndrome" at all. Headaches can be caused by all sorts of things. The "cheese syndrome" can be fatal. There are NO FATALITIES associated with harmala alkaloid use. NONE.
 
Until someone gives a link of an authentic case of the "cheese syndrome" actually being caused by taking harmala alkaloids, then this is nothing more than a bunch of talk. Where's the proof! And no, a headache is NOT proof. Some people get headaches after drinking alcohol, some people get headaches from strong coffee, pot, all sorts of things can cause headaches.

Harmala alkaloids increase the potency of a lot of drugs so a strong cup of coffee could act like 3 cups of strong coffee and that alone can give some people headaches.

Why are none of these headaches cheese related? WHY? Makes you wonder doesn’t it. If harmala alkaloids can cause the cheese syndrome then why is no one getting these symptoms from eating aged cheese? I think these headaches are from some other interaction.

SWIM drinks a ton of coffee and never had a headache from it even during ayahuasca. Also, many ayahuasca admixtures contain things like caffeine. It doesn't add up.
 
Seven said:
so swim could eat a bacon cheeseburger around 1, and by 7 slosh down some rue tea with no worries?
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SWIM does that, eats pizza, drinks coffee, etc., etc., etc., and never had any reactions at all, not one.
 
69ron said:
Seven said:
so swim could eat a bacon cheeseburger around 1, and by 7 slosh down some rue tea with no worries?
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SWIM does that, eats pizza, drinks coffee, etc., etc., etc., and never had any reactions at all, not one.
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Effects can vary between individuals. It's ALWAYS a good idea to exercise caution and restraint when dealing with powerful drugs...
 
thanks for the info guys, much appreciated. Ron you eased me worries thanks, swimfriend you enforced them, thanks lol. Swim might just wait till tomorrow to play it safe.
 
You guys, SWIM IS SENSITIVE TO TYRAMINE. He's bought it before at the local vitamin shop and gets headaches from it. He threw it away. SWIM would be the perfect person to get the "cheese syndrome" if it was possible.

The headache you get from too much tyramine is a very specific kind of headache.

When SWIM eats pepperoni pizza during an ayahuasca session he gets no effects at all from the pizza. Pepperoni is one of the items that can trigger the “cheese syndrome” and so can mozzarella cheese and parmesan. SWIM always orders his pizza with extra cheese.

SWIM gets no headache, no stomach symptoms, nothing at all from eating pizza during ayahuasca.

The reported headaches you guys mention are probably caused by something else.
 
Seven said:
thanks for the info guys, much appreciated. Ron you eased me worries thanks, swimfriend you enforced them, thanks lol. Swim might just wait till tomorrow to play it safe.
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Take my advice as sensible caution, and 69ron's experience as comfort that the situation appears not the be CRITICAL. With drugs of any kind there is always SOME latitude--the important detail often ends up being HOW MUCH latitude there is. 69ron's experiences imply there's a LOT of latitude on this issue. Which means caution is still WISE...but if you screw up it probably isn't the end of the world.

I would ask "Is it such a HARDSHIP to avoid the cheeseburger?"
 
SWIM just loves aged cheese and isn't going to stop eating it. He'd rather stop using ayahuasca than stop eating cheese:) Fortunately he can have them both.

Maybe some people cannot. Until a thorough study on it is performed then we'll never really know will we.
 
69ron said:
SWIM just loves aged cheese and isn't going to stop eating it. He'd rather stop using ayahuasca than stop eating cheese:) Fortunately he can have them both.

Maybe some people cannot. Until a thorough study on it is performed then we'll never really know will we.
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Thats interesting and true for some people. It is also interesting that it would seem that smoking changa mixtures have no interactions with diet at least for me. Any thoughts on that?
 
Here is a recent report on the ayahuasca forum with someone apparently having a food reaction. It seems like many of the reactions comes from eating thai/chinese food. So not sure what exactly is causing the headache / blood pressure rise.
 
Swim had some nasty symptoms once - had shroomahuasca with rue seeds - ground and swallowed, the experience was at night.
The next morning swim drank a nice strong cup of coffee and was hit with a major pressure headache - swim never ever gets headaches.
 
Dagger said:
Here is a recent report on the ayahuasca forum with someone apparently having a food reaction. It seems like many of the reactions comes from eating thai/chinese food. So not sure what exactly is causing the headache / blood pressure rise.
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MSG maybe? Soy sauce?

SWIM hasn't had any reactions at all even with Chinese food though.

I keep seeing coffee and soda as the main culprit. Coffee is not very high in tyramine. It has some, but it's not high in it. I think these reactions are not tyramine related. I think the coffee and soda reaction is caffeine related. No one seems to mention tea. Tea has tyramine. That’s weird.

Aged cheese should do it and I don't see people getting these headaches from aged cheese. They always mention coffee. It doesn’t add up.

Note that several SWIMs here on this forum use coffee and don't get headaches from it when using ayahuasca.
 
69ron said:
When SWIM eats pepperoni pizza during an ayahuasca session he gets no effects at all from the pizza.
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I'm surpised you can eat during an ayahuasca session! :shock:

How does the pizza taste if you eat it during a session? Does it effect the experience much?

After my pharmahuasca experience I mostly go directly into town having a beer with friends to talk about the experience. I always take a Hefeweisse beer from tap and although tap beer is on the MAOI avoid list I never got any direct headache from it, only the day after if I drank way too much. ;)
 
SWIM also drinks while on pharma with thh harmine and harmaline..but most usually after the experience..to talk about it with his brother..mmm beer
 
The Traveler said:
69ron said:
When SWIM eats pepperoni pizza during an ayahuasca session he gets no effects at all from the pizza.
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I'm surpised you can eat during an ayahuasca session! :shock:

How does the pizza taste if you eat it during a session? Does it effect the experience much?

After my pharmahuasca experience I mostly go directly into town having a beer with friends to talk about the experience. I always take a Hefeweisse beer from tap and although tap beer is on the MAOI avoid list I never got any direct headache from it, only the day after if I drank way too much. ;)
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The pizza just looks funny that's all. It tastes the same. SWIM only gets taste hallucinations from LSD usually.

SWIM doesn’t like fasting and actually having an empty stomach causes SWIM to get nausea from ayahuasca. Eating helps settle his stomach.
 
69ron said:
Alkaloids are available as either freebase alkaloids or salts. Salts are bases combined with acids. Freebase alkaloids are alkaline bases with nothing attached to them. Alkaloid salts are attached to acids such as fumaric acid, hydrochloric acid, citric acid, etc. Alkaloid salts are more stable, and usually more water soluble than freebase alkaloids.
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Hey 69, or anyone else that can answer this. The THH that SWIM has is THH HCL, as opposed to THH Citrate which is widely referred to in this thread. With respect to sublingual ingestion or oral ingestion, are the HCL and Citrate forms basically the same? It sounds like they are just a different means to the same end. Am I correct in this assumption? Can SWIM just take his THH HCL sublingually, as is? Thanks in advance!!

Peace
-idt
 
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