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Tetrahydroharmine (THH) sublingually

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SWIM has taken San Pedro with THH quite a few times. San Pedro is high in tyramine. He eats aged cheese with nearly every meal and during ayahausca sessions and never noticed ANTYHING AT ALL.

SWIM has taken 200 mg of harmline and eaten an aged cheese sandwich during the peak and felt NOTHING from the cheese.

Prove it's dangerous! SWIM does this all the time and never had any kind of reaction at all.

You cannot get the "cheese syndrome" from harmala alkaloids. It just doesn't happen.
 
Caapi is often used by people who eat aged cheese all the time. In South America pretty much everyone eats aged cheese all the time.

I eat it every day.
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Within 6 hours of ingesting harmaloids? Not likely in S.A. considering the dieta and fasting requirements, and not likely in your case as well. Even considering S.A., aged cheese is a new part of their diet--NOT traditional. How often do they (or you) eat aged cheese just before or in the midst of an Aya journey? They have thousands of years experience with this stuff, but not thousands of years experience interacting it with aged or fermented foods.

Remember, these hypertensive effects aren't even universal on irreversable MAOI's. For harmaloids there is a much smaller window of opportunity for them to be a danger. In THAT sense, at least, harmaloids are certainly safer. That still doesn't mean it's a good idea to eat aged cheese while the MAOI effects of harmaloids are at their peak.

Besides, who the hell suddenly starts craving some gruyère in the middle of an aya experience? Any time I've ever become hungry in the midst of an aya experince all I wanted was some fresh fruit or raw vegetables. I LOVE cheese, but not on Aya. Waaaay too heavy.

The fact that no hypertensive crisis has YET happened is at least in part due to the fact most people don't crave the rich aged foods that have lots of tyramine during the experience. All I'm saying is--let's keep it that way.
 
Many people eat after having ayahuasca.

For SWIM, he gets nausea if he doesn't eat so he always eats within 5 minutes of taking it.

He eats food high in tyramine all the time.

He's taken harmalas with cactus, coffee, cheese, pizza, you name it. He's done it all.

I'm calling bullshit on this theory.

If harmala alkaloids could cause the "cheese syndrome" then SWIM and many other people would be in the hospital.

There’s not a single case of "cheese syndrome" reported for people using caapi or rue. Not a single one. And that is A FACT.
 
SWIM has taken San Pedro with THH quite a few times. San Pedro is high in tyramine. He eats aged cheese with nearly every meal and during ayahausca sessions and never noticed ANTYHING AT ALL.

SWIM has taken 200 mg of harmline and eaten an aged cheese sandwich during the peak and felt NOTHING from the cheese.
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"SWIM" is obviously a strange one, and shouldn't extrapolate "SWIM's" lack of negative effects to the general population. (Sorry, I'm sick of this "SWIM" guy.)

Again--not even everyone on irreversible MAOI's ever got a negative reaction to tyramine rich foods. "SWIM" may be the exception to the rule, OR "SWIM" may have just lucked out so far OR "SWIM" may be inadvertently correct and harmaloids really don't interfere with tyramine metabolism. That doesn't make it right for "SWIM" to assume that it's safe for everyone until there's real evidence showing that to be true. Until then it's better to be safe than sorry.

And BTW, THH is certainly the safest of the harmaloids in this respect. Try S.P. on a high dose of harmaline... never mind... forget I said that. DON'T.
 
Bullshit.

Show me a case of a single person, just 1, who got a verifiable case of tyramine poisoning after consuming caapi and eating aged cheese. Show me 1. Just 1. That will end the argument very nicely with some actual proof of that theory of yours that caapi is dangerous.
 
Sorry. It took years for them to figure out the risk of even irreversible MAOI's.

Besides, I've said before there may not even be any risk. Yet there is ample reason to believe their MIGHT be, and that's a good enough reason to be cautious. And what is the big deal? How difficult is it avoid tyramine rich foods within 6 hours of taking an MAOI effective dose of harmaloids? When the risk is so high and it's sooo easy to avoid...?
 
i know somebody who has also taken san pedro extract with thh, harmine, and harmaline...hes also given it to a few people...and none of them...NOT ONE had any sort of negative reaction at ALL...he has even taken san pedro extract with pharmahuasca that consisted of dmt fumarate, harmine, thh, and harmaline all together...while drinking some wonderful home brew and EATING AGED CHEESE..this actually happened and not some pipe dream...he has never had any ill effects..except for the random purge..whether it be vomiting or shitting...but that happens...

there is absolutely no evidence that harmalas are in any way dangerous when combined with tyramine...if you hadnt noticed...the people on this board have been at this sort of thing for a LONG TIME..with many people reporting on the effects of their experiments..and not one of them..in the history of what i have read here..has anybody been negatively affected by consuming tyramine around consuming caapi or rue

and while he never would recommend this...my friend has also taken THH with MDA, MDMA, and some other RC's such as 2ce, 2ci, 2ct2...granted..it increased the effects dramatically..but it wasnt life threatening or even worrisome
 
i know somebody who has also taken san pedro extract with thh, harmine, and harmaline...hes also given it to a few people...and none of them...NOT ONE had any sort of negative reaction at ALL...he has even taken san pedro extract with pharmahuasca that consisted of dmt fumarate, harmine, thh, and harmaline all together...while drinking some wonderful home brew and EATING AGED CHEESE..this actually happened and not some pipe dream...he has never had any ill effects..except for the random purge..whether it be vomiting or shitting...but that happens...
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"A few people." Well you obviously understand the scientific method. There was that guy in Oregon who tried to commit suicide by putting a nail gun to his head and put 12, count em, 12 nails INTO HIS BRAIN. Two weeks later he shows up at the hospital with a headache... I guess that proves it's safe to put a nail gun up to your head and pull the trigger.

Right.

There is also absolutly no evidence that harmaloids are NOT dangerous when combined with tyramines.

and while he never would recommend this...my friend has also taken THH with MDA, MDMA, and some other RC's such as 2ce, 2ci, 2ct2...granted..it increased the effects dramatically..but it wasnt life threatening or even worrisome
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You're friend is an idiot who's lucky to be alive. It happens. Hear about the guy who jumped from an airplane and his parachute didn't work? He bounced a few times on someones lawn, broke every bone in his body, but still survived. Go figure. Besides, THH? Minor maoi effect. Tell your friend to try gain with harmaline... again... scratch that. Tell your friend to count himself lucky and move on.
 
People with REAL experience here are telling you it doesn’t cause the "cheese syndrome" and you still think it does!

You don't know what you're talking about.

If it did there would be people dying from using caapi who accidentally ate a taco with cheese. Do you know how many people eat aged cheese who also use caapi! We’re talking thousands of people.

At least 1 case would have happened. And there isn't even 1.

Cheese is not one of the items forbidden by the shamans. If it was dangerous to use with ayahuasca it would be on their forbidden food list and it’s NOT.

Total utter bullshit.
 
It seems like some people are not grasping the concept here. Try to understand--

1. Even with irreversible MAOI's not everyone experienced the tyramine effect.
2. Pointing to "a few people" who didn't experience that effect with harmaloids means bubka.
3. It's a question of "risk" not "certainty."
4. If even one person dies from ayahuasca or related that's bad news for all of us.
5. See above.
6. See above again.
7. It's very easy to avoid this risk.
8. See above.
9. When there's real scientific evidence that harmal alks are safe with tyrosine we can all relax and have some aged cheese while journeying...
10. Yuck! Who the fuck eats aged cheese while journeying!!!!
 
I ate some beautiful aged cheese once while on a strong dose of MAOI/DMT and I died - hmm, but I don't think it had anything to do with the cheese.
 
No one has died from using caapi and eating cheese. NO ONE. Not a single person ever. Ayahuasca is used all the time, and has been in use for hundreds of years.

If aged cheese was dangerous to use with ayahuasca, the Shamans would know about it. In South America people eat aged cheese all the time.

You expect me to believe that it's dangerous when it's not even on the Shamans forbidden food list! Come on. I wasn't born yesterday.

The Shamans are the experts on Ayahuasca and what things to avoid when using it, not YOU, or western science. The Shamans are the experts. No Shaman has ever said to avoid eating cheese of any kind ever when using caapi.
 
Oh, and, ignorantly telling people it's safe because "a few people" have done it with no ill effects is irresponsible to say the least. Some people are particularly sensitive to it. Perhaps there were none of those among the "few people?" Perhaps this forum doesn't constitute an unbiased controlled study?

Hmmmm....
 
It doesn’t matter how you want to phrase it. There are thousands of people using ayahuasca, not just the people here and NO ONE HAS GOT THE CHEESE SYNDROME FORM IT. NO ONE.

Show us a case of authentic cheese syndrome caused by caapi.
 
You expect me to believe that it's dangerous when it's not even on the Shamans forbidden food list! Come on. I wasn't born yesterday.
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They don't have a "forbidden food list." They have an 'allowed' food list. It's not on that one either. Depending on which shaman you go to you might be allowed monkeys and plantains. Not aged--fresh.
 
They most certainly do have forbidden food lists. It’s documented all over the place. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. I'm not going to waste anymore time with your nonsense.
 
It doesn’t matter how you want to phrase it. There are thousands of people using ayahuasca, not just the people here and NO ONE HAS GOT THE CHEESE SYNDROME FORM IT. NO ONE.
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So far. Because so far most of those thousands have not eaten tyrosine rich foods during the MAOI peak effects. Partly due to fasting and "dieta," partly due to western med caution about it that they heard of.

Now you're trying to change all that. That's what I object to.
 
They most certainly do have forbidden food lists. It’s documented all over the place. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. I'm not going to waste anymore time with your nonsense.
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Spicy rich foods, including aged cheese. In no way is aged cheese a part of ANY dieta out there. Show me a S.A. shaman who says aged cheese is OK prior to drinking aya and I'll apologize and go away.
 
Shows us a documented case of harmala alkaloids causing the cheese syndrome. SHOW US!

Prove you're not spreading fear. Shows us the proof. I don't believe it ONE BIT.
 
Let's have a nice debate about this, because I'm interested.

I think 69ron offered some pretty good info, but I hear what your saying xlplytsym.
 
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