thank you, pharma inc.

[tango]

Sorry tango but your post just sounds like an advert for valium. Oh i'm scared and benzo's are the answer kinda thing.

I like the phrase, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Imagine how amazing you would feel if you overcame your fears without meds.

My post is no more an advert for benzos than this entire forum is an advert to becoming a junkie (which it may certainly seem to be the case if a person with little knowledge about psychedelics somehow ended up on this site). All I did was share my experience, without any claim that it's a cure all approach and everyone should do it. And it's ok to come and say 'hey, i did the same thing and it didn't work for me'. But to claim that no one should ever try that based solely on your personal experience or on something you heard from an uncle who once visited for Xmas is certainly not a valid argument.

Also, what's up with making assumptions about people we don't know? I simply said that the benzo worked for me when I needed it and the side effects were worth it. How does that imply that I rely exclusively on a pill and I'm on a path to addiction, no less?!
The fat kid who pops a valium with his breakfast, lunch and dinner doughnut -let's set him right before it's too late, that kind of thing. Well, when someone with asthma can run 7-8 miles and be fine, practice vinyasa at 105f and be fine, but then loses it under certain situations, maybe we should give that person the benefit of the doubt.

Demented, your phrase has its place in the book of nonsensical, overused, feel-good catch-phrases, right next to 'thinking outside the box'. How about 'what doesn't kill you on the spot may eventually kill you down the road'? That makes a lot more sense when talking about the human psyche. It also applies to both the benzos and the conditions they target.

Which is exactly the point here. There are often two opposing points of view that can be equally valid, depending on circumstances. Exactly what Joedirt and DayTripper said. Also Notwhatyouknow -good to hear from someone who's been there, done that. It's all about control, about finding that balance, like in a yoga pose, where you want to put just enough effort. And it's a dynamic equilibrium. Whether something will work for someone depends on a myriad of factors.

I once found myself in a big hole and will be forever grateful to the doc who skipped the bs and rxed uppers. Looking back, I don't know how I'd have managed without those few hours of feeling ok that the meds provided. So everyone, let's not lose common sense in an anti-pharma crusade.

 

[DeMenTed]

I know what i'm talking about when it comes to benzos and i know how sleekit they are. They give you a false sense of wellbeing. They dont address any long term problems. They do work being used as a crutch for certain circumstances but if they can help in one situation then maybe they will help in another part of my life that i can't deal with. Is the kind of dangerous territory your mind starts to entertain.

I did come off a bit strong and i apologise if it came accross as stupid. I would just hate to see someone use benzos on a regular basis and end up with a crippling dependancy. It isn't pretty!

Anyway heres a link about "big pharma". ItemFix - Social Video Factory

I just don't like pharma companies.

 

[DeMenTed]

The term what doesn't kill you makes you stronger isn't as idiotic as you make out. When your immune system fights off an infection or whatever it becomes stronger. Infection tries to kill you, fails and your body improves. Another overprescribed drug antibiotics are rapidly making peoples immune sytems weaker.

If you want to use benzos so you can stand up and talk to people then go ahead but in the future when something pops up and you can't deal with it because you don't have a xanax maybe then you will understand where i'm coming from.

 

[Psyren]

Everyone here uses DMT to reach "altered states" seems hypocritical that he cant use a benzo to help with a spot of anxiety.

Tango, benzos are good to have stashed away somewhere for those days that are really bad. But if they become a crutch your gonna end up needing them everyday and if you dont get them the withdrawls are gonna be bad.

I know trading one GABA agonist for another isnt a good idea but maybe do a little research on Phenibut. It can be bought OTC and is little safer in the long run, IMO

 

[DeMenTed]

Everyone here uses DMT to reach "altered states" seems hypocritical that he cant use a benzo to help with a spot of anxiety.

Tango, benzos are good to have stashed away somewhere for those days that are really bad. But if they become a crutch your gonna end up needing them everyday and if you dont get them the withdrawls are gonna be bad.

I know trading one GABA agonist for another isnt a good idea but maybe do a little research on Phenibut. It can be bought OTC and is little safer in the long run, IMO

How can you compare dmt to benzos? You simply can't.

 

[tango]

It's all good, I realize that people have strong opinions on certain topics. But, as Psyren observed, demonizing a drug on a drug forum seems a bit out of place. Maybe it's a good time to remind everyone here that this isn't about taking amphetamines and benzos at the club: if people do that, it's their choice, but this isn't the place to discuss something like that.

My original and subsequent posts were about using these chemical agents, when needed, to improve one's ability to function in society, while fully understanding that it is a slippery slope. Demented, benzos and uppers do help in the long run, very much so: if you're a soldier going on a 40 hr mission, would you refuse to take the amphetamine because it might give you palpitations and kidney problems and instead opt for a healthy nap behind enemy lines? If so, then you'd certainly change the whole meaning of 'long run' for yourself.

Take, for example, agoraphobia. A textbook example would be a woman who spent the past 30 years in her apartment, away from the windows, because she didn't deal with her fear of crowds when it first started to become an issue. If that woman could go back in time and she was about to pop a benzo, would you say to her 'no way, don't do it !'?

As Keynes put it, 'in the long run, we're all dead'. A reasonable way to create a better future for ourselves is by creating a better present, and if benzos help, then they should be used. Everyone who jumps at this approach with scare tactics worthy of the DEA, please examine your own lifestyle and all the things you do that are bad for your health. On this same note, stress itself is a killer and the cause of innumerable health problems.

Benzos have been along for a longggg time, and with little research it becomes very clear what the risk and benefits are. Personally, I prefer a pharma agent to a health store alternative because with the rx drug you know exactly what you're taking and in what amount. If what you have in mind is a certain active molecule, why gamble with all kind of herbs and what not?

I also want to mention here that the official stance on a person's propensity to get addicted is that one's biology is the main factor there. And speaking of addiction, not only can you get addicted to plant extracts of all kind, but you can get addicted to the feel-good chemicals your own body produces when you engage in activities like long distance running: you stop doing it, you go into withdrawal.

 

[Psyren]

Everyone here uses DMT to reach "altered states" seems hypocritical that he cant use a benzo to help with a spot of anxiety.

Tango, benzos are good to have stashed away somewhere for those days that are really bad. But if they become a crutch your gonna end up needing them everyday and if you dont get them the withdrawls are gonna be bad.

I know trading one GABA agonist for another isnt a good idea but maybe do a little research on Phenibut. It can be bought OTC and is little safer in the long run, IMO

How can you compare dmt to benzos? You simply can't.

They are both chemicals.

There is no such thing as a bad drug. They all can be used constructively or destructively. Any drug you decide to use you should research it fully and approuch with respect,caution, and moderation.

 

[DeMenTed]

I could write a load of stories about how benzos have helped in certain situations. About how they helped me cope in times of crisis but i don't seeing as this isn't a benzo forum.

I could also write a load of stories about how benzos have ruined my life on numerous occassions.

I take your point that if used very occassionally and responsibilty they can be of some use. I just think that for people who maye have an addictive personality that benzos can be pretty much one of the most dangerous drugs in the world.

 

[DeMenTed]

Psyren lol they are both chemicals ahh i see. Never realised that.

Dmt is an endogenous non toxic non addictive compound. Benzos are a manmade highly toxic addictive drug.

As i said you can't really compare them.

 

[Aetherius Rimor]

Wow... I truly did not expect to see such hypocritical views here.

First, to tango, curious if you've tried beta blockers? They target the system involved in the fear/anxiety response, not just sedate.

I personally only use benzo's for panic attacks, acute hypertension/tachycardia, or as a sleep aid when under a lot of stress. Never for anti-anxiety, and sparingly.

In those situations they're incredibly useful.

A drug is just a tool. DMT and Benzos are both tools for different purposes. Neither are superior to the other...

Edit: Second, this is the Open Discussion section of a forum dedicated to psychoactive substances. There is plenty of discussion of other psychoactives in other areas, not just DMT.

 

[DeMenTed]

^^^^. Maybe i'm wrong but this isn't a forum dedicated to psychoactive substances. It's a forum dedicated to entheogemic substances, there's a difference.

I'd like to know what's hypocrtical about arguing against benzos anyway aetherius?

 

[tango]

Demented: I see the use of psychedelics as a lifestyle choice, and I believe this is a good place to discuss other factors in the lives of the members. While the accounts about alien machine elves are interesting, one can only read so much of that. And yes, like others have said, dmt,benzos and other drugs are very much comparable: let's not act here like we're comparing Jesus to Krishna, and both of them to a table.

Aetherius: I've once suggested b-blockers, but the doc said they'd have cognitive effects as well. Now I know well that most docs have a cookie-cutter approach and do my own research. That being said, I'd give b-blockers a chance, as my main problem is controlling the physical symptoms (and no, you can't just 'be strong' and get over it: that's like asking someone to change their heart beat to 70bpm then to 65 then to some other randomly chosen number -it can't be easily done, as we only havethat much control over our bodies). In a way though, maybe i'm better off w the xanax, because the effects are a lot more obvious (ie the sedation), so I'm a lot more careful with using it.

Let me also make this clear: I'm not ' that benzo guy'. If i seem to be defending them over-zealously , it's because i found myself pushed in a corner by some who believe they just know better. This is something I've noticed before though: 'alternative' crowds seem often to be very intolerant of views that don't agree with their own chosen flavor of dissidence.

 

[DeMenTed]

Fair enough tango. I'm just pointing out the dangers and risks of benzos. This forum has a good health and safety stance.

I'm pretty sure there are better alternatives for stage fright than popping bemzos.

 

[Aetherius Rimor]

^^^^. Maybe i'm wrong but this isn't a forum dedicated to psychoactive substances. It's a forum dedicated to entheogemic substances, there's a difference.

First, despite a different and more specific connotation, entheogens are just a class of psychoactive substances. However even if that were the case, the following section shows a generalized purpose of this entire forum as a place to discuss psychoactives (drugs that induce altered states of consciousness): Other Psychoactives - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I'd like to know what's hypocrtical about arguing against benzos anyway aetherius?

Calling one drug dangerous when used inappropriately while calling another drag safe when used appropriately is a very horrible argument.

Saying it's okay to use some drugs, but not others, when both have purposes is hypocritical and the reason we have the current prohibition against psychedelics. Except the people who created it just place higher values on one drug class than other people do.

You are using the very same belief that caused psychedelics to become illegal... just on the other side of the coin.

 

[Fur Beach]

I'm the same way man. I can literally not do anything right because I'm constantly in a state of panic whenever I'm put on the spot. Anything from holding a conversation with anyone to doing work at a job I just freeze up and time goes slow(I haven't been able to hold a job longer than 2 weeks ever for this reason). Xanax is a miracle but I wish the withdrawl wasn't as horrible as it is.

 

[DeMenTed]

In your link aetherius to the other psychactives section i can't seem to see anyone duscussing benos or pharma drugs soooo......

I seriously don't think you can compare dmt with benzos. You can if you want to. Peace.

 

[DeMenTed]

Saying it's okay to use some drugs, but not others, when both have purposes is hypocritical and the reason we have the current prohibition against psychedelics. Except the people who created it just place higher values on one drug class than other people do." said aetherius.

The real reason for prohibition against psychedelics is because big pharma companies run the show and pull the strings and dont want you taking natural remedies. They want you take their drugs and they lobby against natural drugs like cannabis etc.

So when someone writes a post headed "thank you pharma" excuse me for not being enthusiastic about its content.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Actually, prohibition extends back to well before pharma companies had massive R&D profits to protect and actually serves the prison industrial complex (and authoratarian politicians) significantly better than it does the pharmaceutical industry. Also, any substance can be an entheogen depending on a person's subjective experience with that substance...

This thread has wandered off into a rather pathetic direction, imo. We're all adults here and can make the choices we need to in our own lives. Telling someone you know what they need for their life is not only a case where you will probably be wrong...it's entirely unnecessary (especially when they've indicated it's unwanted).

 

[tango]

FurB: Many people have an issue with their voice cracking under certain circumstances, when you start sounding like the wicked witch of the west. Of course,that's the perfect trigger for a downward spiral. Amphetamine make this a lot worse, once the peak wears off.
What i've noticed with xanax is that my voice gets much deeper even in a non-stress situation, like when i'm by myself.

Something else I noticed is that I tend to hold a lot of tension in the shoulders, and that seems to be related to the cracking voice phenomenon, as it restricts the airflow. Working on becoming aware of this subtle sensations in the body during calm situations is very much worth it, in my opinion. Diaphragmatic breathing is key here, but you won't get the maximum benefit by forcing it. What I've found out is that when the shoulders are completely relaxed (and I catch myself constantly tensing them, which I wasn't even aware of before I started practicing yoga seriously -it was just the normal way I carried myself, always tense), the breathing is automatically shifted to the abdomen. Then maybe I'd take a deep breath or something, inflate my chest, lift my shoulders and forget to relax them until some time later, when I would, once again, catch myself being all tense.

Demented: we now have a precedent !

 

[DeMenTed]

Ok swap the word xanax in the original post with alcohol and see how that goes.

I merely pointed out that benzos are a very dangerous drug. Dmt isn't.