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That ugly heroin thread

Migrated topic.
I think it's interesting.

Granted, most of what I have read in my years say there must be some other explantion than just the heroine reactivating degraded DMT product, but maybe if we found out what this guy ate that day it may prove interesting.

eg... judging by his lack of funds I guess he hasn't been living as healthy as normal.

As for upholding the reputation of this forum, I think it's quite clear where the majority of us stand on the matter, so I don't see why this subject can't be left open for discussion.
 
My main complaint being that it could lead people to experiment with opiates who were initially only interested in DMT. As much as people want to claim they are both equally habits, opiates are extremely physically addictive, not something to experiment with. Even the base premise of the post, that heroin can reactivate DMT hours after it has been used is really not very interesting considering it has only happened once, flashbacks are very common with opiates. And based on the response from the opiate centered forum Opiyum decided to include in all of this, things like "I considered joining the nexus just to abuse 'em,but it wouldn't be all that satisfying.It would be like shooting fish in a barrel and I have better things to 'shoot.'", I'd suggest that maybe it isn't in our best interest to keep the thread going, but I guess it should be up to the mods to decide how far this should go.
 
Hi all,

I walked slowly through this thread and I think that we should quit focusing on the 'DMT rox/Opiates sux' side of things. This thread is not about that and it distracts us from the way more interesting points found here.

So let us focus on how this DMT flashback could occur and how we can help Opiyum as best as we can. I mean, I never did any heroin myself but I can tell you that there are actually quite a few DMT-Nexus members who had their fair share of trouble with it in the past. DMT helped/helps them quite a bit.

"Lets put our focus on constructing instead of breaking things down" (nice one for the quotes thread :p)


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
This thread keeps on going on for a multitude of reasons. It is a very interesting one to begin with and we all have something to learn. If not anything else the Nexians need to respect other cultures. The Opiophile seems like a very nice community and I hate people pigeonholeing opiate users as scum. I also hate when people use the term "junkie". It is as closeminded as one seeing the psychedelic community and thinking about us like delusioned spaced out hippies. This is why how we come out as elitists in the eyes of other communities.

I am fairly sure that opiate users are very aware of what they are doing and that they know their shit. Why assume otherwise anyway? We got idiots on both sides, there're idiots who use opiates and fuck it up and there're idiots who use psychedelics and fuck it up.

Talking about opiates as well as other substances is sort of a "taboo" here, but of course there are no strict rules. The OP did not come to advocate heroin. He came to share an experience and ask for our thoughts. And that's what he should get. We know opiates are addictive, they know opiates are addictive and they know when it's really a problem and when not, just as we know when we have to lay off psychs for some time.

Anyway, there's really no reason to close or lock the topic, I believe everything's going fine.
 
soulfood said:
I think it's interesting.

Granted, most of what I have read in my years say there must be some other explantion than just the heroine reactivating degraded DMT product, but maybe if we found out what this guy ate that day it may prove interesting.

eg... judging by his lack of funds I guess he hasn't been living as healthy as normal.

As for upholding the reputation of this forum, I think it's quite clear where the majority of us stand on the matter, so I don't see why this subject can't be left open for discussion.
Click to expand...

Oh boy....can hardly type...stuffed shells weighing me down....but I will push through.

So here is a short drug history/ethnicity/race/upbringing/what I ate that day.

27
White male
50% Italian 25% german 25% hungarian (why that may matter I dont know)

Age Drug
13 alcohol
14 weed
15-17 shrooms,ghb,ketamine,NO2,Oxy/hydro codone/morphone kratom heroin etc etc
18-24 It was always either heroin or suboxone. had 5 months clean at 24 cooked meth for 6 months and smoked it (living out of town)
24-27.5 moved home - heroin/suboxone up until this summer got clean, and have used a dozen or so times since august
----DMT smoked upwards of twenty times...two breakthroughs. Havent smoked weed for five years or so and rarely drink, except of course this day.....
Parents divorced at 12 and that would be the only trauma of any kind but I have worked through that and have a great relationship with both mother and father right now....better in fact than my older sober brothers.

That day...Woke up...coffee cream sugar x2, 2 of my mothers homemade Biscotti and an orange.
Half bottle lemoncella, 2mgs klonopin at say....10am....on the phone all day with unemployment office who continued to screw me over (resolved as of today after two weeks of shit) passed out....woke up around noon....no....around 2pm and smoked 50mg of DMT (Noman style once recrystalized....came down...joyousnes...smoked a bit more cant say how much...around 4 pm ate a big bowl of Pasta Patan (tomato soup with potatoes and pasta)...picked up my friend...drove him around so he could cop....went home....had a glass or two of Chateau ste michelle 2003 (bought back when I had money)....got the call....met dude around 830 pm....did the bag in my car in the parking lot at the nearest mall and its hard for me to remember everything clearly because I was also kinda in a state of shock that it was really REALLY happening and was most definately the same thing I have experienced over the last year or so with DMT and in a flash it was gone....I would venture to say all in all the DMT phase lasted 30seconds then I was back to my sober self....errr well...you know...

the fact is that I got good dope and there wasnt all that much powder in the bag...Im guessing here but probably 70 milligrams maybe 100. So you figure with my LACK OF tolerance At least 50 milligrams of good heroin would be the least that would provide the rush I got....so that leaves maybe another 50 milligrams of cut of which I doubt is DMT fumurate because this stuff had a consistent powerdery (not shiny or crystally) appearance. So if even...I don't know...Im no good with math and this is a lot of guessing but I don't think you could fit enough heroin and DMT salt into 30 units of saline solution to get a person off on both...and I always use 30 units if the powder falls into the solution nicely and it did....Theres just no way both could have been in there.
 
I'm starting to think that The Traveler and Jacky (opiofounder) are the same person. Weird.
 
I think we all know what heroin and opiates can do to folk, but hey psychedelics can also fuck some people up as can any chemical (ingested or otherwise).

On a lighter note, as for your delayed DMT style trip it may be that the opiate somehow triggered a similar chemical combo in the brain that the DMT did a few hours earlier causing specific chemicals to target specific brain receptors.
Maybe your brain produced a hallucinogenic chemical similar to DMT based on what you had eaten, the time of day or how tired you were with the help of the added opiates running riot in the brain.

You (we) can never know for sure what caused this. If you are you ever likely to attempt this combo again or one of your 'Phile' buddies has a similar experience with spice and opiates then let us know.

Interesting!!!
 
Wow. I don't log on for a whole 16 hours and a full scale rumble breaks out!

To try and stay on point for a second (before I go off on a tangent), 100 miligrams of material, or even 70 (of which you figure 50% was cut) could theoretically provide your answer. For someone weighing say 165 lbs, 30 mgs of IV'd DMT fumarate would rock their socks off for a good 10-12 minutes; as little as 10 would probably provide threshold effects. So, I guess it isn't physically impossibile that some fun loving jokester could have enhanced your shot for some crazy reason. I'm no chemist, so I can't really offer an alternate explanation, but I can't imagine how the two would possibly synergize very well - and with klonopin and alcohol in your system as well? In my experience, psychedelic effects are significantly muted by all three.

Now for the tangent:

No judgements from me. I've responded to your posts in the past and I understand where you're coming from. Still, your original post (as well as others you've made in the past) made me a little bit sad. Take it with a grain of salt. It's truly none of my business. But if you throw it out there on the boards, you're going to get opinions. Mine is just another one. So anyways, here goes...

If you want to change the way that you're living, you're gonna have to change EVERYTHING. Moderating a heroin appreciation website while trying to clean up your hand is a pretty good way to help blow it. And looking for answers in psychedelics when you are fresh out of rehab (as I think you were when you first started posting here) may not help your chances much either. I have my own history with smack to speak from; I'm not just blindly hypothetizing. I've been free of it for a lot of years now (I am very happy to say), but I understand the appeal, believe me, and I know what a motherfucker it is. Even putting your faith in a new relationship will likely undermine your efforts. What happens when it doesn't work out? You've seen where you go when the girl becomes unavilable for the evening.

Now, some of the reactions by members here are a little depressing, I gotta say. We like to think we're a cut above and open minded as a result of our travels - that by virtue of smoking DMT we've evolved to a higher level. But honestly, there's as much closed thinking inside this community as there is in any other, and a lot of it is REALLY FUCKING SILLY. My own personal experience has shaped my beliefs that heroin is a dead end street. I don't feel the same way about DMT, but as one who is prone (or has been anyway) to revelling in self-destruction (and keep in mind I was clean 12 years before renewing my use of ANYTHING), it's NEVER an uncomplicated issue for me. There are plenty here who would advise you to try and trip away your addictions. Myself, I think that's knucklehead advice; it's cavalier and dangerous.

Anyways, good luck to you, brotha. I wish you the best in your travels.
 
Maybe it was a "near death experience" from the dope. I know there has been a bit of speculation about similarities between DMT and NDE's. Got any more acronyms I can throw in?

Pokey
 
Uncle Knucles said:
Wow. I don't log on for a whole 16 hours and a full scale rumble breaks out!

To try and stay on point for a second (before I go off on a tangent), 100 miligrams of material, or even 70 (of which you figure 50% was cut) could theoretically provide your answer. For someone weighing say 165 lbs, 30 mgs of IV'd DMT fumarate would rock their socks off for a good 10-12 minutes; as little as 10 would probably provide threshold effects. So, I guess it isn't physically impossibile that some fun loving jokester could have enhanced your shot for some crazy reason. I'm no chemist, so I can't really offer an alternate explanation, but I can't imagine how the two would possibly synergize very well - and with klonopine and alcohol in your system as well? In my experience, psychedelic effects are significantly muted by all three.

Now for the tangent:

No judgements from me. I've responded to your posts in the past and I understand where you're coming from. Still, your original post (as well as others you've made in the past) made me a little bit sad. Take it with a grain of salt. It's truly none of my business. But if you throw it out there on the boards, you're going to get opinions. Mine is just another one. So anyways, here goes...

If you want to change the way that you're living, you're gonna have to change EVERYTHING. Moderating a heroin appreciation website while trying to clean up your hand is a pretty good way to help blow it. And looking for answers in psychedelics when you are fresh out of rehab (as I think you were when you first started posting here) may not help your chances much either. I have my own history with smack to speak from; I'm not just blindly hypothetizing. I've been free of it for a lot of years now (I am very happy to say), but I understand the appeal, believe me, and I know what a motherfucker it is. Even putting your faith in a new relationship will likely undermine your efforts. What happens when it doesn't work out? You've seen where you go when the girl becomes unavilable for the evening.

Now, some of the reactions by members here are a little depressing, I gotta say. We like to think we're a cut above and open minded as a result of our travels - that by virtue of smoking DMT we've evolved to a higher level. But honestly, there's as much closed thinking inside this community as there is in any other, and a lot of it is REALLY FUCKING SILLY. My own personal experience has shaped my beliefs that heroin is a dead end street. I don't feel the same way about DMT, but as one who is prone (or has been anyway) to revelling in self-destruction (and keep in mind I was clean 12 years before renewing my use of ANYTHING), it's NEVER an uncomplicated issue for me. There are plenty here who would advise you to try and trip away your addictions. Myself, I think that's knucklehead advice; it's cavalier and dangerous.

Anyways, good luck to you, brotha. I wish you the best in your travels.
Click to expand...


EDIT: Good theory Geeg. But your right we will never know. Thanks for responding though.


TO ART and everyone:
Thanks man. I read what you had to say twice and your right. Though I feel like I am starting to find my own way the woman thing is a problem. I actually just left her presence and made it clear that I can't handle something as intense as a relationship right now. She agreed and said she doesn't want one either but at the same time she slept at my place a few nights ago (no sex) we just slept in each others arms and that for me plus falling alseep on her lap the next day as she did homework on her laptop and then kissing her goodbye....well...with all that it's quite easy for me to start becoming addicted to her. And look what happened last night when I couldnt get my fix. I told her I could try to maintain bing just friend but she is gonna have to stop telling me how amazing I am and blah blah blah...sorry a bit drunk....anyhow...I think Im over the idea of falling in love with this girl. I know I wont see her again till monday at the earliest, if that, and I have come to terms with that.

I dont want to babble....I just want to say thank to all at the Nexus for your kind words and for participating in this thread....hopefully more speculation will arise as to what may have caused my experience if not I think this thread was a success as is anyhow and Im very happy that I have the support of what appears to be all three admins here. Thanks guys. I just wish Jacky (opiophounder) would have showed up tonight. I respect that man very deeply. The fact that he can still pursue his passion of the opioid and it's relationship to man and not use heroin like he used to is something I would love to accomplish someday. I cant help but have an interest in them and entheogenic substances. For those that whom were reminded of terrible things by this thread I really do apologize. I should have titled it diferently and maybe approached it differently but I did really truly think that it was a very interesting thing that happened to me last night and that all of you would agree.

Good night nexus, good night opiophile. Peace and love....even to Chopstix
 
Oh and still there is the fact that no one else had this experience so I think DMT salt being in a bag of heroin is really really unlikely. We could watch the DEA bust websites to see if maybe this is a new trend but I kindly doubt it. that would require one fucked up clandestine chemist really going out of his way, probably against the will of the cartels, just for kicks....I just dont see it.
 
Good god damn guys!

As an ex-IV heroin user myself I am quite distrubed at some of the responses that Opiyum is getting.

What the hell? NO DRUG IS BETTTER OR WORSE THAN ANOTHER. They just are. It is how we as humans use them that gives them their status. Opiates have helped so many millions of people who are in pain, they can be VERY good drugs when not abused. And even when they are abused, as I did for 8 years, they can be a benefit, as well as a poison...but regardless who are you, or I to preach to this guy that his drugs are dirty and he's a bad person...grow up people!


You know, I just took a look at the link Opyium posted and everyone on that forum is calling us snobs, and you know what, after reading through all of these posts, yeah, a lot of these posts sounds preachy and snobish to me.

While I do not suggest that people start IVing anything, nor do I condone the use of IV heroin (it really fucked up my life), I am not going to yell at this guy for posting about HIS experience.

Opyium has posted a legit question on a legit subject on our forum and is asking for help.
The phenomena he desribes is amazing and warrents further investigation. Why would something like that happen, how? Is DMT being stored up somewhere? Does the injection of diaceytalmorphine somehow trigger stored DMT to be released? What is going on here?





Let's act like we are the sophisticated group we claim to be.
 
acolon_5 said:
Good god damn guys!

As an ex-IV heroin user myself I am quite distrubed at some of the responses that Opiyum is getting.

What the hell? NO DRUG IS BETTTER OR WORSE THAN ANOTHER. They just are. It is how we as humans use them that gives them their status. Opiates have helped so many millions of people who are in pain, they can be VERY good drugs when not abused. And even when they are abused, as I did for 8 years, they can be a benefit, as well as a poison...but regardless who are you, or I to preach to this guy that his drugs are dirty and he's a bad person...grow up people!


You know, I just took a look at the link Opyium posted and everyone on that forum is calling us snobs, and you know what, after reading through all of these posts, yeah, a lot of these posts sounds preachy and snobish to me.

While I do not suggest that people start IVing anything, nor do I condone the use of IV heroin (it really fucked up my life), I am not going to yell at this guy for posting about HIS experience.

Opyium has posted a legit question on a legit subject on our forum and is asking for help.
The phenomena he desribes is amazing and warrents further investigation. Why would something like that happen, how? Is DMT being stored up somewhere? Does the injection of diaceytalmorphine somehow trigger stored DMT to be released? What is going on here?





Let's act like we are the sophisticated group we claim to be.
Click to expand...
I completely agree.
We all have our weaknesses and judging others for it isn't that helpfull.
And as i sayd earlier: constantly being under the influence of ANY substance is not good for your sanity, so this would aply to DMT as well.

I think it's a good thing that people who've managed to overcome this terrible illness of addiction, have their say here..It may help others who're strugling with the problem and it may help the rest of us to see that we should never write off anybody.

i think that heroin has borderline dissociative effects. By blocking signals to the brain, the brain may come into a state in wich it starts generating it's own noise. Especially if you had a lack of sleep or something, the opiate may have triggered a mechanism where the brain started generating signals, simmilar to what it did a few hours earlier.
Heroin is known to sometimes trigger psychosis, so it can unleash things the brain is 'working on' we're normally unawhare of.

I realy don't think there is a pharmacological explanation that involves a special synergy or that would release metabolized DMT.

DMT does cause the release of endorphins, but you would expect someone who uses opiates to be LESS sensitive for this peticular effect of it.
 
acolon_5 said:
Good god damn guys!

As an ex-IV heroin user myself I am quite distrubed at some of the responses that Opiyum is getting.

What the hell? NO DRUG IS BETTTER OR WORSE THAN ANOTHER. They just are. It is how we as humans use them that gives them their status. Opiates have helped so many millions of people who are in pain, they can be VERY good drugs when not abused. And even when they are abused, as I did for 8 years, they can be a benefit, as well as a poison...but regardless who are you, or I to preach to this guy that his drugs are dirty and he's a bad person...grow up people!


You know, I just took a look at the link Opyium posted and everyone on that forum is calling us snobs, and you know what, after reading through all of these posts, yeah, a lot of these posts sounds preachy and snobish to me.

While I do not suggest that people start IVing anything, nor do I condone the use of IV heroin (it really fucked up my life), I am not going to yell at this guy for posting about HIS experience.

Opyium has posted a legit question on a legit subject on our forum and is asking for help.
The phenomena he desribes is amazing and warrents further investigation. Why would something like that happen, how? Is DMT being stored up somewhere? Does the injection of diaceytalmorphine somehow trigger stored DMT to be released? What is going on here?





Let's act like we are the sophisticated group we claim to be.
Click to expand...

You guys are a very sophisticated group and it's because of people like you that I say that.
You know as well I that they can't all be winners. Even if you took ten of the coolest, most level headed, sophisticated and educated people in the world and put them in a chat room to talk about the virtues of soap you know someone is gonna make a mess of things. It just seems to be the natural order of things.....and for anyone not following the thread at opiophile here's what one member had to say about what may have happened....
Originally Posted by Paregoric Kid
wow this is pretty strange. could be that the heroin potentiated any DMT still in your system through the sigma receptor, they are both sigma-1 receptor agonists. maybe you are a slow metabolizer of DMT and the potentiating effects of heroin was enough to bring the effects of the DMT back to a psychoactive level. perhaps the DMT was broken down through metabolism and then for some reason caused your body to make excess endogenous DMT. perhaps you accidentally contaminated your heroin with DMT without noticing it. perhaps the DMT was occupying the sigma receptors and the heroin kicked it off the sigma receptors causing the DMT to attach to the 5-HT receptors. I'm not really sure. I will post again on this thread in a little after I reread some more on DMT pharmacology, DMT metabolism, and endogenous DMT production.
Click to expand...


All I have is freebase so the accidental mixing is out of the question...also I didn't have it on me.
 
Swim has been an iv opiate (all types) user for most all of his life (atleast 20 years.) Ive never experienced any potentiation of dmt because of it. The klononopin during the day should have altered the dmt space what time you were there , but not so much after. As one junky to the next ..... i dont know what caused your experienced man... the dmt should have essentially been metabolized almost all the way out of you by that point. Im clueless.

Unless it hitched a ride around your bloodstream or was lying dormant somewhere in your body... then upon introduction of the diacetyl morphine , that mechanism of "holding" was released... this is the only possible explanation i can come up with if it was heroin related. Very doubtful tho bro... more likely than that... it was a one tme fluke barring any specific and unique body chemistry. Peace Brother...
 
"Last thing Ill say is that life is not all sacred geometry and spirit worlds and psychedelic bliss and harmony. There is a real sober crushing world out there and my life and what I wrote here is nothing compared to the misery others are experiencing every day all day, right now even. I don't see why this isn't even discusable.
Turning a blind eye and refusing to talk about it doesn't seem to go with any spiritual principles that I know of.
Honesty, intuition, exploration, pushing boundaries and limits, humility etc etc. These are spiritual prinicipals. Not that I'm perfect. Not by a long shot but I sure as shit wont turn a blind eye to something or someone because I think they are of a lesser class or standard. "


Amen to that brother...
The fact that you are honest about what you really do and dont attempt to candy up your life for us is applaudable...noone is perfect...I think all of us here should never forget that...everyone deserves the same ammount of respect as anyone else...there are no "better" people here..just people in different situations..

I do have people that i care the world about i nmy life that are are heavily addicted to very destructive drugs and it hurts me to see it...but you know what...these people would also hesitate at NOTHING to give a cold man the very shirt of their back, in fact one of the most open and warm people i have ever met becasme addicted to crack in the time I knew him and lost his whole family and spend 2 years living on the street...if you simply thing that all junkies are just worthless you need to open up youre mind a little bit and get out the sheltered little bubble youve been living in..

My heart goes out to you brother Im glad to hear that you have been able to even cut down your use to the ammount you have...alot of people cant even do that with things like alcohol..and from what i have seen personally..heroin is the hardest to cut out..I wish you luck on your path and hope you continue the work on yourslef it seems you have already started.
 
You are were you are this very moment because of every step you have ever taken. To go somewhere else you need to decide to leave, decide where to go, and start walking one step at a time, your foot may slip, but as long as you continue going to the new destination, and not retreat to the old, you are winning.

As a past chemical dependant (not opiates), I think I got what you were saying.

Now to get to the bit you questioned about the dmt effect comming on with other substances...
I have had this happen the last two times I took MDMA, which were this new years and two years before that (I realy only do it to please the wife), the previous time I was convinced it was because I used sceletium the first time that day, so I filed it under novelty (it was the most beautiful CEV I ever had though) and I mentioned it to Phlux at the time, chatting online. It was realy a significant expertience, I felt like my communication facility and grasp of symbols was being mapped, there was this blue dome like the inside of a mosques roof, well more like sky blue leading to whites, obviously not stationary parterning. And all around this in a circle I was bombarded by symbols like flascards and it was like there was something on the other side of the experience that was acutely aware of whic symbols I understood, and after some time the random symbols would start to form crude communication.

This last new years I only took some MDMA, and smoked a few spliffs of brickweed, and yeah, I had to conciously decide not to just float off in a CEV world rather than interact with the other people... The usual effects of the MDMA itself was greatly diminished and just like the previous time it had an above average downer at the end.

Lol, I guess DMT broke my brain, and I'm not even "breakthrough-prone" :p
 
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