That ugly heroin thread

[Touche Guevara]

Fair do's to you for your honesty and all but, and without being judgemental against yourself, heroin is a fucking dirty drug and is responsible for so much misery and destruction that I cannot condone it's use unless it's for proper medicinal purposes. Junkies are a waste of space and time, Glasgow is overrun with them and their illiterate, fucked up offspring who spawn even more of their genetic waste. I don't care if anyone thinks I'm being harsh or nasty about this but smack is something very, very close to me and to see it make an appearance on this forum disgusts me.

Whoa, this post is even worse than just mentioning heroin. It's downright horrible and opinionated.

Mind you people, heroin is not a human, it is an object and thus amoral. It is people who can be good or bad, clever or stupid. I cannot blame any junky in the world either since it'll require knowing the reasons that pushed one to heroin addiction. I am more likely to blame a messed up society that forces people to such actions than people themselves ( or substances). Let us also not forget that the main cause of these is prohibition.

SWIM feels uneasy with the subject but the subject is not condemning heroin or heroin user here, it's about the combo and that a shooting brought an apparent dmt flashback. This is interesting pharmakology if you ask me unless someone's playing some joke (e.g. supplying dmt instead of heroin).

Agreed. We are all a product of our environment and physiology, and claiming that someone is somehow morally responsible for the person they are is a tempting fallacy.

Opiyum, thanks for your report. I hope you are able to make a positive change in your life, and I encourage you to seek treatment, hopefully before you wake up ten or twenty years down the road with nothing to show for your time but burnt bridges and painful memories.

Also, something that I don't think has been touched on. You should focus on yourself instead of this girl. If you really care for her, you will get yourself on track so that you'll be able to have a healthy relationship. Imagine how you'd feel if your addictions influenced you to hurt her. You can't truly love another person until you love yourself.

 

[polytrip]

These things don't amaze me. I repeatedly had LSD flashbacks from smoking cannabis (fortunately the only addiction i ever had to deal with) and i know many people who've also had this. So yes, drugs can interact strange and unpredictable.

Once, an injection i got from the dentist (procain, lidocain or whatever he used), gave me the weirdest hallucinations, when i got home and took a few drinks!!!

 

[narmz]

I'm sorry if I kicked the replies off on the wrong foot, but I am coming from a perspective of experience. I used heroin and coke everyday for nearly three years, and I know the lifestyle. I was a hair away from being literally a black hole in society, that is what users become, so to see one show up on nexus was a bit unsettling for me. Heroin and coke, to some degree depending upon if you're mixing them or not cause a whole slew of delirious and hallucinatory effects when used often. To start a thread trying to weed out what exactly happened to you in a heroin induced haze is like a one-armed man trying to perform surgery on his one arm.

What we really should be talking about is how to help you get clean. What have you tried, how many of your close friends are currently involved with it, what hasn't worked for you? Heroin use can often be attributed to an overall depression over the human condition, a sense of alienation as a result of not quite understanding why the world even ticks at all. That is often why they use, to stop everything, close down all sensory input and provide a feeling of comfort and calm in a world they don't feel all that comfortable in to begin with.

I'd like to suggest that we could provide help, but nothing anyone ever did or told me helped me to stop, I had to do it myself, and I employed certain enths like cannabis and fungi to help me along the way. Cannabis helps to slow down the sensory input, similar to heroin without completely stopping it, and fungus helps to pull you out of your present location in time and objectively look at all that you are, and be able to make sensible decisions to change. That's something that is very hard to do without pulling yourself out, I wouldn't suggest DMT, and I wouldn't suggest phen's to help you, they both seem to cause adverse affects with heavy opiate users in my experience.

I wish you the best, I apologize for coming off as rude; I see that it really only helps to alienate you more, and I only react in such a way because the problem is so difficult to solve from the outside, frustration takes over.

 

[Opiyum]

The thing is that once SWIM hypothesised that the short action of smoked and injected dmt (other than its degradation by MAOIs) may be due to its internalisation intra-cellularly. Intracellularly localised dmt cannot act on the receptors any more (but can act on the intracellular sigma-1 as you mentioned).

Is it possible that the heroin could externalise the dmt from inside to the outside the cells (where it can act uopn receptors)? The buffling issue is how did it managed to stay inside the cells for too long. I cannot think of a molecular mechanism that could account for this. The combination (or "sequence" if you may) you tried is not a famous one, I bet Burrows may have had something to say on the issue since he had experience of both injecting dmt and spice.

But i need to ask again, you sure your dealer did not give you spice instead? did your friend shoot as well? can he confirm it was diamorphine/?

Most certainly was Di-acetyl-morphine and nothing else but maybe some benign cut. Like I said I did these same bags four days earlier and had no such experience.
I forgot to mention that not only did I get the CEV's and tinnitus and moving sensation but I got that sort of ah....hot...umm...elevated feeling in my face and body as if I was about to breakthrough and lose self awareness and leave my body but I didn't. When I say hot and elevated it's kinda...like a vibration, not the electricity feeling, but a vibration so intense that everything else disintigrates and reintegrates into something alien (only word possible to use)...well...that was just starting to take place when all the sudden it all disappeared.



@polytrip
I am aware of Ibogaine and almost met Rocky Caravelli in Mexico last year but was arrested in the process of getting the meds I needed to maintain on till I could get there. I have been using heroin for 10 years and I got clean this summer and had upwards of four months sober. Since august I've used a dozen times it's just in the last two weeks that I have used 4 times and 2 times were over three days which accounted for the mild withdrawals.
I am aware of all aspects of what opiate addiction can do and have had multiple treatments be it 12 step based, cognitive based or motivationally based. Don't read into this as bragging because I am not happy about what I have don't with my life in regards to this drug but I do want to make it clear that I have kicked innumerable times and yes it only gets worse and yes it is a prison but right now Im pretty much in the free and clear. tomorrow I may feel an ache or two and tonight my legs my keep me up a bit but other than that I am not strung out right now and all previous uses of DMT over the last six months have been far away from any heroin use. I know I broke through twice and I don't think it's something someone could tell me that I haven't done not could I tell someone else what it was like.

Now that I think about it one of my breakthrough's was on a night that I did a little heroin and this was a few months ago. I remember after it was over and I existed again thinking "wow that was by far the most profound experience I've ever had". I won't describe what I saw and what I talked to because it isn't possible. Huxley and McKenna didn't have the vocabulary to do so so how could I.
My point is that try to lay all stigma aside and realize that opiates and psychedelics have a great deal in common and are not and should not be enemies. Just Look at Demeter holding the poppy and the ergot rye.

DMT is my drug of choice.
Heroin is my drug of demise.

I've embraced both fully and know I need to let go of heroin but it isn't nearly as easy as you say. I went cold turkey this summer and it wasn't just three days of the flu. More like a week a vomiting, nauseua, entire body ache, insomnia, hot flashes, cold sweats, cravings,grief, depression,a stoumach full of rocks (that didn't go away for three weeks, lathargia, sneezing, excessive yawning, etc etc etc....And what does that say that I went through all that and was clean for months and I still went back and so do so many others. Well I'm not that far gone yet and I have hope and a beautiful woman and the spirit molecule to guide me.

 

[antrocles]

DMT gives everything.
Heroin takes everything.

do the math.

kick and never go back.

WITH (TOUGH)LOVE AND GRATITUDE.

 

[ambi-lysergance]

fair point narmz and furthermore I would like to congratulate you as you seem to have come along way, and now here you are offering advice to others. your are to be applauded brother.

the worrying thing is when reading back on opyiums post he seems to describe his use of heroin in an almost romantic and endearing tone. the question is does a guy who speaks of heroin in such an idyllic way even want to stop???
well opyum over to you sir:d

 

[Opiyum]

Too many people to reply to each but to all I appreciate your concern. It's been a bad week but for the most part since I got clean this summer my life has improved dramatically.
I talked to this woman of mine about the fact that I have bouts of self hatred and am not exactly 100% emotionally stable yet and she knows why. That will come in time and she herself said that I can't rely on her to save me but she only that after I tried telling her that this may be a bad idea to pursue any further because of my baggage. She respects that I realize she can't save me and no one can and quite frankly at this point I don't need saving anymore. I just need some stability and having no money (because of bullshit
bureacracy?SP? is frustrating and when I get frustrated I turn into a 16 year old girl at the prom who spilled punch on her brand new dress. This is what I have to work on and have things to live for certainly helps motivate a person to do that work. And god damn so does DMT and so do you guys....some of you anyhow.


Oh and yeah....the title of the thread....my bad. Hindsight and all...ya know.

Dont worry about me guys. I am doing better than I ever have and that is coming from someone who came to terms with true nature of denial years and years ago.

I also wanted to say that my breakthroughs while they were the most profound thing Id ever seen/felt/been whatever they pale in comparison to being with someone you love. To kissing someone you love. DMT while it has a lot to do with connectiveness it still is something that cannot be shared in the way that a kiss can.

 

[Opiyum]

fair point narmz and furthermore I would like to congratulate you as you seem to have come along way, and now here you are offering advice to others. your are to be applauded brother.

the worrying thing is when reading back on opyiums post he seems to describe his use of heroin in an almost romantic and endearing tone. the question is does a guy who speaks of heroin in such an idyllic way even want to stop???
well opyum over to you sir:d

It's a love hate thing man. The balance is shifting lately though. I'm hating it more and loving less. I was in love with the stuff for ten years and just got clean this summer and have had a few relapses so what I am saying now HOPEFULLY will be complete bullshit and idiocy a year from now looking back.

 

[Opiyum]

In all fairness I let the folks at Opiophile look in on this thread because I do think there is a unifying quality in those that attend this forum and that so I will post a link to the opiophile version of this thread. I'm a mod there and if this gets me kicked off the board so be it. Both boards in fact. I just think this is both an interesting topic and now an interesting social experiement. So here goes....http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?p=465302#post465302


I hope you all can see it without having to register or anything.


And please Opi-buddies....please be kind to the natives. They have a peaceful home here. Dont make me look bad please.

Nothing good to say....then don't say it....we can all agree to that I think.


It's never bad to step outside your comfort zone and try to understand different people of different persuassions....If you smoke DMT then leaving your comfort zone should be second nature.

 

[ghostman]

What a lovely bunch of savoury characters you have over there

Your social experiment though is more commonly known as trolling (and judging from their reaction to the Nexus, you know that)

 

[soulfood]

Sooooo...

Opiyum has come forward about his use of heroine before. I'm sure he has his reasons and I understand that, my support goes out to him but with only having two eyes in the front of my head and one single brain I don't know all, therefore cannot tell all. I do know there are several members over here at the nexus that used to have opiate depency issues, some of which are respected very highly. So... think people.

He has however come forward with an interesting scenario which is hard to explain, as has been stated DMT degrades in the body very quickly. I have never used opiates and I have never been informed of any hallucinogenic qualities of that substance and always thought of it as a body drug.

So Opiyum, is it common to have changes in visual perception from the use of opiates?

 

[Opiyum]

What a lovely bunch of savoury characters you have over there

Your social experiment though is more commonly known as trolling (and judging from their reaction to the Nexus, you know that)

Honestly never have known what trolling was but have heard a lot of people bitch about it...in any case I know some reacted harshly but the same can be said for you guys. That doesn't mean amends can't be made.
There is no ill will intended in sharing these threads between two forums when the topic applies to both.

 

[ghostman]

What a lovely bunch of savoury characters you have over there

Your social experiment though is more commonly known as trolling (and judging from their reaction to the Nexus, you know that)

Honestly never have known what trolling was but have heard a lot of people bitch about it...in any case I know some reacted harshly but the same can be said for you guys. That doesn't mean amends can't be made.
There is no ill will intended in sharing these threads between two forums when the topic applies to both.

Topic aside, the social experiment seems to appeal to you, otherwise why even mention it?

 

[Opiyum]

Sooooo...

Opiyum has come forward about his use of heroine before. I'm sure he has his reasons and I understand that, my support goes out to him but with only having two eyes in the front of my head and one single brain I don't know all, therefore cannot tell all.

He has however come forward with an interesting scenario which is hard to explain, as has been stated DMT degrades in the body very quickly. I have never used opiates and I have never been informed of any hallucinogenic qualities of that substance and always thought of it as a body drug.

So Opiyum, is it common to have changes in visual perception from the use of opiates?

Unless you count nodding out and thus dreaming no. Not changes in VP to the degree that I experienced last night.

And once again to everyone. There are people on both sides of this thread that all have the same interest in whatever the fuck happened to me. Lets not bicker between each other or see who can piss the furthest. We'll just have piss all over the place and who wants that?

Not me!

 

[ambi-lysergance]

If you smoke DMT then leaving your comfort zone should be second nature.

lol:d

whatever happens I wish you the best.

if you need it there will always be plenty of suppport ( and the complimentary insult:d ) for you here. :d

 

[Opiyum]

What a lovely bunch of savoury characters you have over there

Your social experiment though is more commonly known as trolling (and judging from their reaction to the Nexus, you know that)

Honestly never have known what trolling was but have heard a lot of people bitch about it...in any case I know some reacted harshly but the same can be said for you guys. That doesn't mean amends can't be made.
There is no ill will intended in sharing these threads between two forums when the topic applies to both.

Topic aside, the social experiment seems to appeal to you, otherwise why even mention it?

I don't know why I mentioned it. For the same reason I just put out a half smoked cigarette. None. At least none that I know of.

 

[soulfood]

[

And once again to everyone. There are people on both sides of this thread that all have the same interest in whatever the fuck happened to me. Lets not bicker between each other or see who can piss the furthest. We'll just have piss all over the place and who wants that?

Not me!

Piss can't hurt you dude... well it could, but there'd have to be a lot of piss



How long did the "DMT" effect last roughly?

 

[Opiyum]

Well Im having fun here and I think some of you are too and I think the same can be said for some at opiophile, a lovely place, with lovely people (Chopstix can take some getting used to but he has a big heart). A lot of the bad comments were because of the initial responses thats all....I just cant wait till Jacky and Paregoric Kid and some of the chem whizzes both here and there start to weigh in on the subject. Who knows maybe some new friendships will be made.
In the meantime I'm off to my mother's house to have her homemade stuffed shells.

Ciao bella

 

[narmz]

It would be nice if this thread was closed, as interesting as it is, I'm not really sure what purpose it could serve to anyone here on nexus. I'm surprised it has lasted this long, but it really doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and really only serves to create hype around a substance that is usually not discussed on the nexus.

 

[polytrip]

The thing is that once SWIM hypothesised that the short action of smoked and injected dmt (other than its degradation by MAOIs) may be due to its internalisation intra-cellularly. Intracellularly localised dmt cannot act on the receptors any more (but can act on the intracellular sigma-1 as you mentioned).

Is it possible that the heroin could externalise the dmt from inside to the outside the cells (where it can act uopn receptors)? The buffling issue is how did it managed to stay inside the cells for too long. I cannot think of a molecular mechanism that could account for this. The combination (or "sequence" if you may) you tried is not a famous one, I bet Burrows may have had something to say on the issue since he had experience of both injecting dmt and spice.

But i need to ask again, you sure your dealer did not give you spice instead? did your friend shoot as well? can he confirm it was diamorphine/?

Most certainly was Di-acetyl-morphine and nothing else but maybe some benign cut. Like I said I did these same bags four days earlier and had no such experience.
I forgot to mention that not only did I get the CEV's and tinnitus and moving sensation but I got that sort of ah....hot...umm...elevated feeling in my face and body as if I was about to breakthrough and lose self awareness and leave my body but I didn't. When I say hot and elevated it's kinda...like a vibration, not the electricity feeling, but a vibration so intense that everything else disintigrates and reintegrates into something alien (only word possible to use)...well...that was just starting to take place when all the sudden it all disappeared.



@polytrip
I am aware of Ibogaine and almost met Rocky Caravelli in Mexico last year but was arrested in the process of getting the meds I needed to maintain on till I could get there. I have been using heroin for 10 years and I got clean this summer and had upwards of four months sober. Since august I've used a dozen times it's just in the last two weeks that I have used 4 times and 2 times were over three days which accounted for the mild withdrawals.
I am aware of all aspects of what opiate addiction can do and have had multiple treatments be it 12 step based, cognitive based or motivationally based. Don't read into this as bragging because I am not happy about what I have don't with my life in regards to this drug but I do want to make it clear that I have kicked innumerable times and yes it only gets worse and yes it is a prison but right now Im pretty much in the free and clear. tomorrow I may feel an ache or two and tonight my legs my keep me up a bit but other than that I am not strung out right now and all previous uses of DMT over the last six months have been far away from any heroin use. I know I broke through twice and I don't think it's something someone could tell me that I haven't done not could I tell someone else what it was like.

Now that I think about it one of my breakthrough's was on a night that I did a little heroin and this was a few months ago. I remember after it was over and I existed again thinking "wow that was by far the most profound experience I've ever had". I won't describe what I saw and what I talked to because it isn't possible. Huxley and McKenna didn't have the vocabulary to do so so how could I.
My point is that try to lay all stigma aside and realize that opiates and psychedelics have a great deal in common and are not and should not be enemies. Just Look at Demeter holding the poppy and the ergot rye.

DMT is my drug of choice.
Heroin is my drug of demise.

I've embraced both fully and know I need to let go of heroin but it isn't nearly as easy as you say. I went cold turkey this summer and it wasn't just three days of the flu. More like a week a vomiting, nauseua, entire body ache, insomnia, hot flashes, cold sweats, cravings,grief, depression,a stoumach full of rocks (that didn't go away for three weeks, lathargia, sneezing, excessive yawning, etc etc etc....And what does that say that I went through all that and was clean for months and I still went back and so do so many others. Well I'm not that far gone yet and I have hope and a beautiful woman and the spirit molecule to guide me.

Opiates and psychedelics do indeed have something in common.
Opium is both a gift to humanity and powerfull medicine as well as a curse to people and society's.

It's good to realize that also psychedelic states are not 'natural' states of mind, and i think it's just not good to constantly be under the (powerfull) influence of ANY substance.
Instead of giving insights and in our lives and inspiration through radical shift in perspective, it would keep us from living our daily lives and being socialy engaged and productive human beings.

That's why addiction is truly a disease. An illness that withdraws you from your life. And because of this it's like a vortex: once you're sucked in, you lose motivation to get out, so you get sucked in deeper and deeper. Because motivation to get out can only come from live itself...the very thing, from wich you're being removed.

Eventually this leads to selfhate.