The dreaded Ayahuasca Nausea/purge thread

[Father Time]

Ok guys i have question and that question is do we really know what causes the nausea/purge from the aya brew? The reason i ask is i see conflicting result/answers from people on what actually causes the nausea.

The other reason i ask is the vomiting/nausea part of ayahausca completely ruins the whole experience in my opinion. That might be because i dont subscribe to the idea that your purging bad "energy" (not sure if that the correct way to state that). I have a more scientific approach that i choose to utilize to admire the beauty of the universe, but again thats just me and i mean no disrespect to those who approach it in a different way.

thanks again!!

 

[universecannon]

I've had some intense healing experiences both physically and mentally with the purge...Seeing negative emotions and thought patterns/memories/toxic crap leaving my body and mind. The cleansing isn't surprising at all really, especially considering the amount of people with IBS and other digestive issues whom aya has helped greatly. Even harmala heavy changa has initiated bottom purging for me, and the cleaned out feeling after is incredible.

When the nausea hits me really bad with aya, purging usually releases me from it and i enter a new stage of the experience (except with really massive doses the nausea can be constant regardless). Resisting the purge has only prolonged the nausea and uncomfortable mental space.

You might find this thread insightful The feared and misunderstood purge. - Ayahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Father Time]

thanks for the reply and for the link. I think thats the first thing i read when i joined the nexus. For me the nausea and purging is throughout the whole experience hence why i dont feel that its cleansing in anyway, for me its actually a bad thing due to acid reflux disease so i would prefer to avoid it if possible. Also thanks for mentioning the changa experience, that kind of purging i can deal with as it doesnt really ruin the experience for me in any way so maybe i otta try the changa rout!?

 

[Du57mi73]

I too feel the same way about the purging. I believe most purging/nausea is caused by ph imbalance, coupled with dmt being a 5-ht(3) agonist. I purge constantly on aya, hence the reason I never choose to do dmt that way. I just have nausea and purge the entire experience. But I wouldn't say it removes all benefits. You will still learn the limits of your body.

 

[Elpo]

In my one and only aya experience so far, I have experienced the purge as something very positive. I felt relieved afterwards so I agree with UC there. I must also admit that I only purged once, so I can imagine that urging throughout the whole experience must not be fun.

I just wonder what kind of diet you were on before the experience? I think that might be an indication as well.

 

[gardentoad]

I delayed experimenting with aya because the purge sounded so miserable to me...2 years of thinking about it and my curiousity finally got the better of my fear of the purge. My experience was beautiful and the purge was easy. My guide suggested when the purge occurred to ask myself "what did I want to get rid of in my life" and not to resist. I am so glad that I decided to go ahead and have the journey. I felt beneficial effects for the next several months.

 

[adam]

The purge is amazing, to me it is the reason to have the ayahuasca experience. Like universecannon said it can be as if you can see some unhealthy patterns, negativity, and or toxicity within yourself dissolve and leave you to never come back. If you are new to ayahuasca I wouldn't try taking some sort of heroic dose especially if you don't have a great diet as this may be induce a long and terribly nauseating experience. But anyways I don't fear the purge I embrace it, the ayahuasca purge is one of my favorite experiences, it is so powerful and so relieving.

 

[universecannon]

Yeah i'm also curious what kind of food/drinks you normally ingest if your purging non stop every experience, since that could definitely be a factor. For example its not that uncommon for people who eat standard american diets to purge for several hours there first handful of times drinking it.

Also what plants are you folks brewing? Are you ingesting the sludge that drops out to the bottom of the brew after a day or two? What dosages are you taking as well? And have you gotten similar effects from pharmahuasca?

 

[Elpo]

Like universecannon said it can be as if you can see some unhealthy patterns, negativity, and or toxicity within yourself dissolve and leave you to never come back.

I had this very thing happen to me. After the purge I had this phlegm in my nose and sinus that just had to get out. At the moment of spitting it out into my bucket it actually felt like a living creature crawled out of my body through my mouth. It was very weird, but felt great afterwards.

 

[Sabnock]

For me, it's def. the Harmalas that cause the nausea and vomiting. I took some pure Harmalas once, trying to figure out the dosage, took too much and it was like i could feel the Harmalas causing my stomach to contract, it pretty much brought on the projectile/instantaneous purging. Sure, DMT's 5-ht3 agonist properties could contribute to it, however any time i've ever ingested DMT in the form of Mimosa with some Moclobemide instead of the Harmalas, there is absolutely zero nausea or purging. There is also a point, dosage wise, where the Harmala effects are strong, but not strong enough to cause the purging, the dosage is known as one's "sweet spot".

Recently, i've found Lemon Balm tea to help really well with stomach issues like nausea, bloating, gas, and could possibly even prevent the purge from higher doses of Harmalas, though i'd have to test it out.

As for the act of purging itself, i for one HATE IT. I mean, i don't fear the purge and it's def. not hard to purge, it's just i myself have gut issues and really, really, dislike vomiting, plus i too have problems with acid reflux/heartburn. And in my continuing experimentation with Ayahuasca, i WILL find a way to avoid the purging for good, as i do not believe it needs to be that way and i believe Ayahuasca has MANY layers and it's up to us to make of it what we wish, to experiment, to find different admixture plants and see what all possibilities are opened with certain combos.

I myself would like to find a combination of herbs to mix with Ayahuasca that would not only eliminate the purging/nausea/diarrhea, but would also calm the experience down (providing anxiolytic effects). I believe there many things one can do with Ayahuasca, it's not just for the jungle anymore, it's made it's way into the minds of people all across the planet and all Ayahuasca can do is evolve, adapt and continue it's legacy.

 

[universecannon]

You may find a sweet spot or two, and there is many things that can help limit the nausea, but your never going to fully eradicate nausea with ayahuasca completely. If you take enough harmalas its a guarantee. Even with pharmahuasca, or just freebase harmine/harmaline on its own.

Its mostly the harmalas but the oral dmt greatly increase the nausea for whatever reason- even though they usually don't when smoked. This is obvious when taking 2g rue compared to 2g rue with 4 grams of mimosa. The latter will be WAY more nauseous.

 

[3rdI]

Its definitely worth trying pharma if you don't like the purge as this ROA may eliminate it.

I nearly always purge at home when I'm drinking Aya, but in the summer when I hit the fields for sunny psychedelic days I drink harmalas from rue and freebase DMT, both dissolved in OJ, and I never get any nausea and no purge.

It may not work for you but its worth a try.

 

[universecannon]

Well you'll still get nausea/purging with pharma if the dose is high enough, but it does manifest less readily than with aya, generally speaking.

 

[3rdI]

Well if I drink a brew from a batch of vine that I have previously extracted then I know the rough dosage of harmalas in the Aya.

If I drink the same strength of pharma as Aya then I don't get sick. I know that comparing pharma and aya isn't an exact science but so far i have found that doses of pharma up to 350mg of rue harmalas doesn't make me sick.

I'm sure if I pushed the levels high enough I would get sick but I think those levels may well be overkill, what I ingest provides "propa" experiences so I don't feel like the dosages are particularly low.

 

[universecannon]

Thats great you don't get any nausea/purging at full on psychedelic levels. I just wanted to point that out for folks since some people think that pharma = no nausea/purging

 

[Jox]

If you want pharma = no vomit, nausea:

1. Don't eat at least 6 hours before the treatment. And what you eat it should be light, very light, like lentils and not beans, for example.

2. If you still vomit it means you have slow digestion: fast the whole day, just water.

3. No water 2 hours prior to pharma.

This is not like Ibogaine that you have ataxia and gauging for 30 minutes.

if you do it as I said there would be NOTHING to vomit, and if you somehow do have ataxia on MAOI DMT, let us know, we should know about it.

 

[universecannon]

I've done that and still puked/dry heaved and had plenty of nausea before with pharma. Vomiting is more enjoyable than dry heaving to me and i like to have a small meal of fruit a few hours before dosing so that i have some more energy for the experience. I also feel dehydrated if i don't drink water 6 hours before aya. To each their own though.

 

[3rdI]

Thats great you don't get any nausea/purging at full on psychedelic levels. I just wanted to point that out for folks since some people think that pharma = no nausea/purging

I agree with you UC, I wasn't trying to say it wont cause a purge, just that pharma is worth a try before giving up on oral harmalas/DMT due to a dislike of the purge.

 

[endlessness]

Even if you don`t subscribe to the `purging bad energy` feeling, you can still gain a lot from the purging experience. Think about it this way: You are being put in a position where you are weak, where you are reminded of your own mortality, the limits of your body. This is an extremely beneficial position to be in, because you can learn about yourself, about your weaknesses, about your endurance of difficult situations. You are given an opportunity to test how calm and concentrated you can get even with nasty body effects trying to sway you.

If ayahuasca was all sweet tasting and only resulted in beautiful and fun trips, it wouldn`t nearly have the same power of transformation as it does in this way.

 

[Elpo]

Even if you don`t subscribe to the `purging bad energy` feeling, you can still gain a lot from the purging experience. Think about it this way: You are being put in a position where you are weak, where you are reminded of your own mortality, the limits of your body. This is an extremely beneficial position to be in, because you can learn about yourself, about your weaknesses, about your endurance of difficult situations. You are given an opportunity to test how calm and concentrated you can get even with nasty body effects trying to sway you.

If ayahuasca was all sweet tasting and only resulted in beautiful and fun trips, it wouldn`t nearly have the same power of transformation as it does in this way.

Very well put!