The Enjoyable Agony of Self-Destruction

[Ice]

Two nights ago, I had a very unexpected and ridiculous trip. Most of my trips take a dark undertone, but this one hit home. I forgot who I was for a good while. It wasn't like the ego loss I experienced on mushrooms; it was a literal forgetting of everything. My senses were totally overwhelmed. I couldn't move other than the constant thrashing around because of the intense body buzz. My mind was trying so hard to process what was happening and for a while I thought I might have overdosed. That thought wasn't at the forefront of my mind, but it was there. When I finally got to where I wasn't confined to the bed, that is when things started to just get weird. I know trips are weird anyway, but the visuals were somewhat overwhelming. Everything was layers upon layers. It was not only swaying, moving, and morphing, but things would just appear, disappear, and jump around. It was very speedy, but it was slow too. I was literally watching seconds into the past, which was a very bizarre concept to comprehend. Whenever I moved, I had to watch myself catch up to myself, it that makes any sense. I started to project my multiple personalities into the objects of my room, namely the lava lamp and my freebord. The lamp was beautiful spitting sparkles into the air. I couldn't look at it directly because the light coming from it was so brilliant.

I'll stop explaining as this isn't a trip report, but I wanted you to have an idea of what was going on.

If I had to put a theme to the trip, it would be, "Stop trying to be who you aren't. Just accept the depression and mania. Better yet, embrace the cynicism." As Galifinakis says, "Bukowski was right!"
I don't agree with the theme. A while back, I would have, but I feel as if I have made a lot of progress in becoming the man I am supposed to be. These last two days have been somewhat of a regression. I know there are things to learn from this trip and things to integrate, but I just don't see them yet. I haven't really talked or thought much since that night. I feel disassociated, not only with myself, but with society in general. I feel comfortable with you guys on this board, but as far as the people I interact with I feel like I'm on a completely different level. I mean I get these feelings a lot, but I just can't work past this feeling of dread when I'm in public. I think I am good on trips for a while with the exception of being blasted into hyperspace when my extraction finishes. Maybe it is what I need. I don't know... I've had bad trips and indifferent trips, but this is the first one that was actually deconstructive.

I was fairly clear headed, but one thought that kept bugging me was, "Why do I enjoy mentally dismembering myself down to the point of not recognizing myself and causing breakdowns of the highest order?"

I didn't mean to type all this. I mainly wanted to ask you guys what draws you to self-destruction? I don't want to know what draws you to psyches or low dose trips because they are usually enjoyable and great for meditation or self-reflection, but what is appealing about high dose trips? What makes destroying your psyche so enjoyable?

 

[Travel]

The process of unraveling, and then the process of re-stitching my consciousness back into the fabric of this physical reality, is so fascinating. It isn't the non-selfhood that is appealing. It is the reinforcement that my consciousness is not merely what it is here, and carries some consequence beyond the physical. Even if that consciousness is indecipherable from this current incarnation.

And I think if one believes in a reality beyond the physical, reinforcing connection to that larger reality is somehow liberating.

 

[synchroneyes]

Dear Ice
I too have had several experiences similar to yours... don't stress about stressing, or fear being scared. You are not alone and we do understand the weirdness of time disassociations, like the ones you have been shown.
When I was in my teens I had what sounds like repeat experiences like yours... I called it the Pausies" as everything is stalled. You were seeing the fabric which was weaving your humanised sense of time and space my friend. It is always a shock when you feel are in uncharted regions.

One thing I can say about your poly time experience is that our senses don't all operate at the same rates of comprehensive capacities. Each senses take differing amounts of processing time which needs to be syncopated into a normal present tense. Visual-cognition is for instance a much more complex and time expensive action compared to directional hearing. Catching up to your self could sound like fun if you had chosen to feel that way, but I wonder if you were also experiencing a general distension of time as well. Which would make sense of the buzzing sound you were hearing at the start. These sounds after weeks of practise reveals themselves as standard sounds when focused upon. However they are infinately distended and make as much sense as gibberish until they slowly become comprehensible. I was generally able to hear many internal workings as well as perceive (see) around 30 layers per second, which were far easier to count when moving as they tend to merge and pile on each other and are therefore hard to distinguish.

After a while I had some really strange zoom experiences and other weird spacial compression. I tried some other strange test I can talk with you about later if you want.
It gets easier if it ever happens again.
It happened once to me, then ever time even catching a wiff for the next 9 months.
I learned to be patient and observe with more than all the time in the world.
Good luck and Stay in contact if you can.

Your witness knew something was ready to be revealed. There are no backward steps unless you reject yourself.

In replying to some of the latter parts of your rave.
We enjoy dying because we have tasted living. All processes have destructive elements, which we generally are unconscious of. However we all need to break eggs to make omelettes.
Our desire for change is at the heart of it.

 

[blacklist666]

Everything I'm about to post, you probably already know, but if anything's helpful...

"Two nights ago, I had a very unexpected and ridiculous trip. "

What MG Dosage?

"Most of my trips take a dark undertone, but this one hit home."

nn-DMT or 5meo-DMT? Were you lying down or sitting up? Were you comfy? Were the lights out in order to limit light coming in?

"I forgot who I was for a good while."

Naturally! =) Shame to hear it wasn't pleasant though.

"It wasn't like the ego loss I experienced on mushrooms; it was a literal forgetting of everything."

I practiced white light meditation for a while to prepare myself for loosing everything. Not saying it's right for everybody though.
That reboot can be frightening. You need to be nurtured by emotion so you don't draw "distantly away". Go out in nature & meditate. Pick up the pieces. =)

"I couldn't move other than the constant thrashing around because of the intense body buzz."

Were you alone? Were you relaxed before you launched? I hope your product was pure. Which method of administration?

"My mind was trying so hard to process what was happening and for a while I thought I might have overdosed."

You always come back. If you have a next time, just have complete conviction within yourself and know that "this too shall pass".

"That thought wasn't at the forefront of my mind, but it was there."

I told myself "O.K., You're Doing To Die Now.." *Make-believe tone of voice to myself* It Seemed to help. Of course, I had to be at a point where I knew I wasn't going to die naturally by understanding my brain is setup to metabolize this very fast. Also understanding the only thing that could get you is physical anxiety. The old adage: "The only thing to fear, is fear itself" Actually works here because supposedly the only thing "bad" would be if your blood pressure or heart rate went up AND you had some severe cardiovascular problem (That you know about) beforehand! So. No worries.

To remark to "What is going on." I would say so many things I couldn't ever name them all, however I believe the character of the experience is completely different closed eyes & personally (Although I have only done it once) I think that is the only way to do it because you are looking into the inner canvas of your mind & if you stimulate your mind while interpolating information like that, I can't imagine it to be a very meaningful experience. However; with sensory deprivation (No light / sound) It was infinitely more meaningful for myself. (Your mileage may vary)

"If I had to put a theme to the trip, it would be, "Stop trying to be who you aren't. Just accept the depression and mania."

Perhaps your neuro chemical balance within your brain will even out if you allow yourself to move through the "depression & mania" instead of "dwelling" of course I am not in any way insinuating anything of what I am saying here makes up for clinical advice from a licensed practitioner.

"Better yet, embrace the cynicism." As Galifinakis says, "Bukowski was right!"

Cynicism is a way of rationalizing, but sometimes to allow cynicism to transpire inside your head without blurbing it out loud allows you to transcend indifference, and to look at it like: Aww! The poor ignorant fools have done it again! Pity on them. I wonder If I have anything meaningful to add to their already meaningless existence. Not to sound like a meanie, just saying when from cynicism comes intellect, and stimulation of thought is better than to lead to judgement and rotten moral decay. & again, Love Light ~ Peace. Find something worth living for, and ignore the rest is what I do.

"I don't agree with the theme. A while back, I would have, but I feel as if I have made a lot of progress in becoming the man I am supposed to be."

Allows you to reflect, doesn't it?

"These last two days have been somewhat of a regression. I know there are things to learn from this trip and things to integrate, but I just don't see them yet."

I feel that allot of the things you receive can be in the listening to the "authentic you" that you got a glimpse of. Listening to your automatic mind & intuition in order to find your true self. That whole "being the man" instead of "playing the part" bit of life.

"I haven't really talked or thought much since that night. I feel disassociated, not only with myself, but with society in general."

This experience was a chance at surpassing all your realized or unrealized self that gets in the way of your true being. I felt after doing DMT that I was a little under-prepared & I still felt your way man! It happens to the best of us! It'll pass. You'll regain your grounding. & you'll be stronger at your base when you do!

"I feel comfortable with you guys on this board, but as far as the people I interact with I feel like I'm on a completely different level."

That's because you are at a different level. Your new definitions of what's relevant in life as well as how intense this was for you might make you want to reach out to others, but the way you use to was in bonding in very human ways before, and now that holds no frame of reference toward the kind of grounding your seeking. Also, there's a logical level of social estrangement. Why would you go around telling everybody about this experience? However DMT is THE drug your brain uses to prioritize important events IMO. So, you just got yourself a huge dose of meaning; but with what to reference to? You have to reference it to something & It's what's inside that counts & I'm not merely speaking of your worth as a human being here, but your intent for going into the trip in the first place.

If you feel so inclined; would you please elaborate what your intentions were? What did you want to accomplish? What was your will behind having the experience?

"I mean I get these feelings a lot, but I just can't work past this feeling of dread when I'm in public."

Don't worry about what others think. Feel content being you. When being true self; you are perfect. You are. Be. Know your goodness. Wear it as a smile while you walk. As a Joking Muse: Disregard the petty minds of underlings. They cannot begin to fathom your motives.

"I think I am good on trips for a while with the exception of being blasted into hyperspace when my extraction finishes. Maybe it is what I need. I don't know... I've had bad trips and indifferent trips, but this is the first one that was actually deconstructive."

What duration between trips? Anything significantly negative distorted your life in the last couple of months / weeks / days? Perhaps a break is what you need. Some people have trouble with breakthrough experiences if their subconscious mind thinks they've had enough for a while. Sometimes they "knock on the door, and are rejected" so to speak.

"I was fairly clear headed, but one thought that kept bugging me was, "Why do I enjoy mentally dismembering myself down to the point of not recognizing myself and causing breakdowns of the highest order?"

Causing breakdowns is not good. Could you elaborate more, Please?
Perhaps this is a gentler way your subconscious mind is suggesting you get your ego out of your way so your priorities can slide naturally into place so you become the man that destiny has called for. Perhaps you are at a point where the desolation of nature will bring about a mind spring of creative ideas and concepts to help shape the world into a more beautiful place to inhabit. Perhaps this is all what you make of it, and you are a sadist in real life, so you take it out on yourself in the spiritual? j/k Hehe! These are not laughing matters. You want to inquire within. Know you already know; have courage to hear yourself say out loud what your deepest will means. (Or what your deepest truth is)
Perhaps because DMT releases a sense of "meaning", you keep searching for that "meaning" by taking DMT and it creates a panic loop short circuit illogical equivocation in the brain, habits of taking DMT, and a paradox in living life trying to derive meaning from a drug which releases meaning within only when you take it within sensory deprivation and take it after diligent preparation. Meaning is in life, Not DMT. Meaning is reflected from life through DMT, but abstractions from life's inherent meaning are necessary in order to reflect upon them through DMT.

"I didn't mean to type all this."

I'm glad that you did.

"I mainly wanted to ask you guys what draws you to self-destruction?"

50MG smoked white pure (But Waxy) I did it in order to get my brain's irrelevant circuitry out of the way of sensing things purely. I did it so that I could potentate my fullest potential as a human being. The ego loss part didn't bother me because the more you beat up the ego & the less it gets in the way, the less difficult these experiences become and the more profound the meanings are. (But all in moderation) Much similar to the unfolding path towards enlightenment. Also similar toward the path of nothingness. Between there are some paths too, but I don't have the time to go into all of these. The ego destruction is a necessary thing sometimes in order to reassess. The act of "Stopping" allows one to more closely re-examine ones path and act profound personal questions of a spiritual nature in order to maximize growth. You can truly look at yourself objectively without bias towards self. When self isn't in the way one can see the path of least resistance more clearly.

I hope this helps. This is only one way of saying it. I have hundreds ways of approaching this one question you ask. If this is satisfactory; otherwise I will approach it in whatever way / direction is best / appropriate as I do not intend a miscommunication or misunderstanding to ensue.



Again, I look forward to your response. Thanks in advance!

 

[tobecomeone00]

Ice, what draws to us self-destruction? It is the want, the sub-conscious NEED to be re-united with the other side, the cosmos, hyperspace, death, whatever ya want to call it...We do not realize that at the core, this is what it is, mostly because we are so immersed in the world and creation of form (I, me, mine), ...We are ALL God, we are all the SAME consciousness, hidden in a world of illusions in order to experience itself, leaving little clues like spirituality, or psychadelics to remind us along the journey. We are not only each other, but everything else that our Consciousness manifests...We separate ourselves at birth, learning about the "I" and the "Me"...my name, my likes, my dislikes, my personality, etc. etc., is all BS...It's a cool, clever little form that *I* am inhabiting at the moment, but it is not my true form, just as your true form is not who you really are at the moment...it's just your Earth body...

It seems that revealing this secret seems to be Dimethyltryptamine's motive in existence, and I feel that this is a hard enough lesson to learn, without multiple personalities standing in the way...What I would say the DMT is trying to tell you, is to accept who you are, completely and wholly. You must understand that this self-destruction is just a wanting to return, which is essentially Death...we do lil things that will not kill us, but the things we do, they destroy us quietly and slowly...It derives its symbolism from junigian archetypes, and is a very ancient affliction...I guess what the DMT says is, before we can get rid of your un-real identity, we need to get rid of the second one you have made for yourself...Until this happens, and you are convinced that you have changed yourself, I doubt you will move further in learning about form. It may take you off into some other lessons for the time being, but one day, you're gonna take a smaller hit than usual, and you will completely separate from form...it will come swiftly and unexpected, but in a fraction of a second, YOU WILL KNOW...just keep trudging on, bud, the Logos know what is best for us, and at what times...Acknowledging these facts, you're already a step forward...now try to recognize how often they come up in your life...it is the first step in eliminating the lies that run rampant in the psyche of the human species...

 

[Ice]

@synchroneyes

It is always a shock when you feel are in uncharted regions.

But that shock is what we are all addicted to. I like to think that we are modern day conquistadors. Since there isn't much new world to explore on Earth... I'll put it this way. Some people explore the deep sea, others... space, we explore consciousness and a "spirit world." It is the new frontier as far as I am concerned, and we are the cutting edge.

I tried some other strange test I can talk with you about later if you want.

Absolutely. It fascinates me how we can all take the same substance, and while having similarities, have very subjective experiences. Because of those experiences, we begin our own experiments. Where as you are experimenting/have experimented with space-time distortions, I am currently intrigued by the thin line between reality and hyperspace. Since I just recently began using dmt, I am still in that infantile stage and so do not have the experience that a lot of people have here. I was thrown off from watching "The Spirit Molecule" and thought I would travel through some kind of wormhole or end up in a whole new place out in the Universe. I don't even see the crazy fractal visuals. It is like I exhale, the world shimmers for a split second, then I am in a different dimension of the same place I am in this reality. I'm not sure about any "picture puzzle pattern doors."

It gets easier if it ever happens again.

I hope it does. It was very cool. I think it was more the come-down that really threw me off. Like most trips, even with the dark undertones, I thoroughly enjoy what's happening. The harder trips just usually take a few days to get that understanding. The don't always end with sunshine and rainbows. haha.

 

[Ice]

@blacklist666

I just noticed that I didn't mention the substance in the post. Maybe because it wasn't the trip I was asking about... Who knows? I think maybe it was because that RC talk is banned here, and I didn't want everyone to jump me on that. I just wanted to see why everyone was drawn to high dose psyches. I had 2 doses left from a few weeks ago when I posted a thread in the Cacti subforum. I'm hoping that by clarifying I am not breaking that rule to an extent that the mods mind too much. Since we aren't talking about the chemical itself but more the subjective experience of high dose psyches, I think it will be okay. Correct me if I am wrong, mods.
It was 40mg 2ci.

Were you lying down or sitting up? Were you comfy? Were the lights out in order to limit light coming in?

I was in my room. It was dark other than the lava lamp. I was a comfy as you can be with a stimulant.

Naturally! =) Shame to hear it wasn't pleasant though.

Actually, that part was quite pleasant. It was mostly the aftermath of the trip that wasn't.

I practiced white light meditation for a while to prepare myself for loosing everything. Not saying it's right for everybody though.
That reboot can be frightening. You need to be nurtured by emotion so you don't draw "distantly away". Go out in nature & meditate. Pick up the pieces. =)

I've never done white light meditation, but generally I spend a little bit of time centering myself before a trip. I went through a spell where I would wake up right before sunrise, and sit outside meditating while the sun came up. Once I felt the morning warmth, I would open my eyes, see the dew glistening, and tell myself that it was a new day. That the sun burned away the doubt of yesterday and the bird's singing was proof enough that the world continues, that beauty is still here, we just have to look for it. I would try to carry that inner peace with me throughout the day. Now that I am reminiscing, I think I might wake-up early tomorrow. I saw white light once on a mushroom trip; I actually put a trip report up in the mushroom forum if you would like to read it.

Were you alone? Were you relaxed before you launched? I hope your product was pure. Which method of administration?

Yes I was alone. I tend to trip alone. Maybe I will find some tripping buddies soon. Sharing my tripping space is something that has been on my mind lately. I was pretty relaxed, and I am sure it was pure. It was 2 20mg capsules.

You always come back. If you have a next time, just have complete conviction within yourself and know that "this too shall pass".

I do always come back, even when I don't want to. haha.

I told myself "O.K., You're Doing To Die Now.."

A theme of that Shroom trip I mentioned earlier...

Perhaps your neuro chemical balance within your brain will even out if you allow yourself to move through the "depression & mania" instead of "dwelling" of course I am not in any way insinuating anything of what I am saying here makes up for clinical advice from a licensed practitioner.

Man, it has evened out comparatively. I don't dwell, and it is usually fine, but every now again I get very hung-up in the manic mindstate. It is one of those things that I cannot accurately describe to you. I've done better working through it myself that going to a licensed practitioner. They care nothing about the root of the problem or what other causes it may be. They give you whatever pill the pharmaceutical agencies are pushing on them at the moment to get you out of the office. That is just my own experience. Others may have better luck...

Cynicism is a way of rationalizing, but sometimes to allow cynicism to transpire inside your head without blurbing it out loud allows you to transcend indifference, and to look at it like: Aww! The poor ignorant fools have done it again! Pity on them. I wonder If I have anything meaningful to add to their already meaningless existence. Not to sound like a meanie, just saying when from cynicism comes intellect, and stimulation of thought is better than to lead to judgement and rotten moral decay. & again, Love Light ~ Peace. Find something worth living for, and ignore the rest is what I do.

I am a very reserved individual in a lot of public situations so blurbing things out isn't really my style. "Aww! The poor ignorant fools have done it again! Pity on them. I wonder If I have anything meaningful to add to their already meaningless existence." That thought is straight from the ego. There is no transcendence of anything with those kinds of thoughts. Who am I to say their lives are meaningless? I'm a drug head. A productive drug head, but a drug head none the less. I can't add anything meaningful to their lives because they have different experiences than mine, and I am figuring things out just as they are. I may be on a different level than other people, but I always lend a helping hand to whoever needs it from me. That thought is not only one of the many egotistical reasons for moral decay, but allowing that judgment of others to enter my mind is a distraction to my search for enlightenment. We are pushing the boundaries of consciousness and learning more about ourselves in the process. If we continue to hold to that elitist mindset, we will never evolve.

Allows you to reflect, doesn't it?

Oh it does very much...

It'll pass. You'll regain your grounding. & you'll be stronger at your base when you do!

Thank you for these words. and it always seems to be the case that once I get grounded, I am ready to be thrown into oblivion again. I guess that is the nature of progression. Maybe???

If you feel so inclined; would you please elaborate what your intentions were? What did you want to accomplish? What was your will behind having the experience?

My intention was to push myself to the limit. I wanted no other expectation to distract from the experience. It was time to break down my ego and rebuild.

Causing breakdowns is not good. Could you elaborate more, Please?

Here is the nature of my breakdowns. I hit a wall. I'm stuck in limbo and mindfuck and whatever else until I finally reach a point where the only option is to work through it. I break myself down to the root of the problem. I eliminate the problem and begin to rebuild. For change to happen I must breakdown all that I am in order to understand the nature of my thought progressions or actions. They suck sometimes and if I get stuck I might end up insane, but I trust myself enough to explore these unknown territories and because of that change is inevitable. I can't really elaborate anymore. It is just a process that I go through on high does psyches.

I did it so that I could potentate my fullest potential as a human being.

This is perfect. This is humanity at its best.

 

[Ice]

@tobecomeone00

What you say is very powerful and inspiring indeed. My thoughts are similar to the one that you have outlined. How have you come upon these realizations? What were the experiences that grafted you to these ideas? I have become very comfortable with death, but how do you know that revealing those revelations is DMT's motives? Could it be just the human mind searching for a meaning in a meaningless drug?



Enlightenment is a powerful thing. I love you guys, the seekers of knowledge and truth. I love the open-mindedness and encouraging words that emanate from the users of this board. I was just struck with why I joined this board in the first place and thought I would share.

 

[blacklist666]

I have no experience with that drug, so I will refrain from offering advice, however I would like to apologize for the comment from the ego, but I didn't know if you were someone who suffers from those sorts of automatic thoughts or not. For me on this one, it was bad advice but more importantly i made 2 assumptions based upon nothing which I will which I will try to refrain from making in the future.

Thank you for your feedback. It was personally beneficial. If you would like me to post my technique for white light meditation I'll take the time to post it. You are brave for doing 2ci. I had no will to try it after reading the trip reports off Erowid. If you don't mind, would you please remark for me on any positive effects you have encountered while using it?

 

[Ice]

I would love to hear anything you have to say on white light meditation. I'll research it, but I would like to hear your experience with it. The name makes it seem pretty beneficial.

I'll have to refrain from speaking on my experiences with 2c-x chemicals since they are discouraged talk here.

Dude. No worries on anything you said. I was just relating to you my thoughts on it. As we become more conscious of ourselves and reach the next level, it is inevitable that we start to feel superior to the rest of society. If we don't fight to retain a sense of modesty about the knowledge and experiences we are blessed with, we will just fall into another directionless ego game. Nobody likes cocky assholes. I still work on not being an asshole; it is so easy for me to jump back into that superior mindset whether or not I project it outwardly.

 

[unclesyd]

I dislike/disagree with the term(maybe the emphasis) you use(place on) self-destruction, I suppose that might be one way to describe it, one aspect of the experience, but that statement is full of negative connotations. I only use for positive reasons. I self-destruct myself to rebuild a better one. I use high doses to fully implicate myself in this so called self-destructivism, to immerse myself in, to fully open and awaken my communicators 8) . I use to open that channel to the divine itself, and hear its word. To slowly but surely advance my path towards full liberation from my earthly ego, and become what we all have been waiting for, who any of us could be, but alas only one.

But more specifically I do not use too high of a high dose as to cause a difficult experience, and in essence not doing any good, except for teaching me about my limits. Maybe that is what you should take from this experience. That what you took was just to, to, tooo much for your system. It didnt sound like a hole heartedly bad experience, but it didnt sound good either. Also maybe certain substances, I believe the one you took specifically(I have had many experiences), not to be the greatest tool in the tool box for personal exploration and such things. Cant remember what I used to do of that, not as much as what you did(but close), but I knew it wasnt for me so much so.

You say you are having a difficult time integrating such things. Maybe it is just too soon for that powerful of an experience to be analyzed. Get your mind of this experience. Go for a hike, get stoned, meditate, vacation, go to the beach, something to get your mind off this thing. I have not discovered the true meaning of some of my voyages for months after. I try not to analyze/integrate these things too fast.

Lastly you ask why do we find these things so enjoyable, yet you did not sound like you enjoyed this trip at all. Like I hinted at before if you take too,too much it might just lead to an unenjoyable experience. I can take a high dose and dissemble my brain from the inside out, but at least my brain is still there. I dont take a that super duper high dose and try to kill it. I want to be fit enough to reassemble the darn thing once I have it apart. Like you said you want to enjoy this thing, not be devastated by it. Well devastated badly..........

Godspeed

 

[unclesyd]

A note on ices last comment, so true.

One may realize that others are doing wrong unknowingly. But it is far worse for the knowing to project their knowledge on others. It is the classic they know not what they do.

Like I approach a person who doesnt drive so well, I calm myself by saying we each have our own thoughts, capabilities, talents, and limits, but we are also of one. That a-hole in front of you is essentially you, so calm down, smile and wave to yourself...8)

 

[Ice]

You say you are having a difficult time integrating such things. Maybe it is just too soon for that powerful of an experience to be analyzed. Get your mind of this experience. Go for a hike, get stoned, meditate, vacation, go to the beach, something to get your mind off this thing. I have not discovered the true meaning of some of my voyages for months after. I try not to analyze/integrate these things too fast.

What I ended up deciding was that while it was a visual funhouse, the trip itself wasn't very introspective. I just experienced a sensory overload. I was getting too caught up in trying to find something in the drug. I'm not saying that it won't help some people, but from now on, I am going to stick with natural substances. No more of the synthesized drugs. I'm not a big fan of the metallic, stimulant effect they have on my body anyway. I might make an exception for some good Lucy...

Lastly you ask why do we find these things so enjoyable, yet you did not sound like you enjoyed this trip at all.

I very much enjoyed it while it was happening. Now that I look back on it, it wasn't just a horrible trip. The few days after comedown, which was when I posted this, were the unenjoyable part. You say that you have experience with the substance, so I think you will understand the comedown is definitely one of the worst variety. Maybe your experience was different... For the duration of most of the trip, I kept wondering why I always come back to "self-destruction" (Which I never meant any negative connotation). It is much like you said, we must destroy to rebuild. Those were my thoughts; I just wondered how others felt in the community so I posed the question.

 

[cker]

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose." Loosing your identity, ego, place and time can liberate. It's probably not fun for everyone.

 

[endlessness]

Ice, dont worry about saying which substance it is, you can do it no problem. I think point of our announcement thread is rather that we dont want this to be the focus of the forum and therefore excessive threads dedicated to it, or people to glorify RC use without considering the risks (specially related to mislabelling and also unknown long term risks). But as you said yourself the focus of your questions are on something else that isnt only about RC, so its totally cool to relate your experience and say what substance you took

 

[Ice]

The last thing I want to do is glorify RC usage. I strongly suggest not using them. The trip does not justify the after effects in my experience.
To each their own, I guess.

I don't believe any of the RCs can come close to what good ol nature gives to us.

 

[determination]

I was fairly clear headed, but one thought that kept bugging me was, "Why do I enjoy mentally dismembering myself down to the point of not recognizing myself and causing breakdowns of the highest order?

this has been my past two weeks, i can't say its always been like this but i can say i've certainly not been able to put it into words so well, like you said there were certain undertones leading you to this frame of mind. i haven't read the responses yet and i haven't ever really taken enough of a dose to trip hard all at once but there's somethign screwy with my brain chemistry also, so it kind of makes me wonder; i've thought about schizophrenia, autism and the links between Serotonergic psychedelics, serotonin in general, tryptamine carriers and how if we've grown as a species and have nourished ourselves with these plants/compounds, then a general standardization of their use and understanding need be possible in this world to further our research with an open mind, because strange and real things do happen one only need be aware of his environment to be aware of them.

i was thinking about opening up a thread, a fun thread where its enjoyable to go and ponder such things as brain chemistry, pharmacology, philosophy and this intriguing symbiosis where i ask people's minds and opinions on (what i think will be called) : Theoretical and Pragmatic approaches to thoughts on Brain body chemistry, Psychology and Neurology

I didn't mean to type all this. I mainly wanted to ask you guys what draws you to self-destruction? I don't want to know what draws you to psyches or low dose trips because they are usually enjoyable and great for meditation or self-reflection, but what is appealing about high dose trips? What makes destroying your psyche so enjoyable?

I couldn't tell ya

the best description i can come up with for my personal social anxiety are my eyes and how i see. my vision is strange, every time i get my eyes checked they're 20/20, and i agree i have super fine vision, but sometimes when i'm nervous or in an uncomfortable situation, also tense and worried i can't see, especially in public/wide open situations, like i can see yeah well enough alright.. but then i close my eyes and i get a sense of everything around me then time slows, i feel like i'm looping around on weed or something. luckily our model of the brain and its functioning is somewhat flawed and psychedelics are to high tech of a thing to put down for some in any case. there are alot of areas that deserve people with an eye for these things or a feeling of the understanding ofcertain situations; present, even if they're just crazy psychedelic ideas, it would benefit us so much to know more of the metaphysical nature of these things, in the meantime this connection is so strange and awe inspiring i'm happy to spend long hard days with aya, my hours be filled with dreams of them.

good luck to you my friend and Good Vibes, i'm coming down now~

 

[Apoc]

First, I don't think most people regularly take super dose trips because as you know, they can be quite taxing. It is an interesting question you raise, though I'm sure a lot of people unacquainted with this subject matter would misinterpret the meaning of the title of this thread.... assuming you are talking about suicide, or taking so much of something that the effects are detrimental to ones life and/or status in the world. You are talking about losing ones idea of self by altering ones perception of reality.

First, it isn't necessarily enjoyable, at least not the first few times it happens. But, I think it is human nature, biological nature in fact, to want to push boundaries of what is possible, and so, some people will always be drawn to ways of exploring the universe, and mind alteration will always be one of those avenues.

There are also many reasons why the experiences are in fact, enjoyable and why we go back. First, those psychedelic journeys, in my experience usually do literally feel good. There is a natural joy in those experiences, even though sometimes the psychological content may be frightening. Also, what I have found through "self destruction" is that when self breaks down, something else awakens, something amazing. I have found that it is the self that is actually a construct, an onion of layers of conditioning. When all that breaks down, you go to the core of your being without all these constructed layers of false beliefs and automatic social conditioning. You reach right down to your "soul" if you will.

You see, most people are convinced that they are their personalities, they are their beliefs, they are their memories and their past, their culture, and they are their physical form. All that is conditioned. What happens when all that falls apart? Something else is revealed, and you realize that everything you thought you were is false, dispensable, temporary, and does not hold up under pressure. So what is revealed underneath all that? Something wonderful! Our personalities, our beliefs and opinions, those are like costumes we wear, and when I take ayahuasca, I take it off.

There's a pop song by Keesha. The lyrics in the second verse are "Lose your mind, lose it now, lose your clothes in the crowd. We're delirious, tear it down, till the sun comes back around". I heard this tune after taking ayahuasca and those lyrics gave me a vision. I imagined I was in a crowd and when she said, "lose your clothes in the crowd", but instead of taking off my clothing, I took a drink of ayahuasca, and peeled of my skin, my human costume, and unleashed the spirit within. Then everyone started doing it, and it was a light show of energy and love, until the sun came up, the hoasca wore off, and we all put back on our human costumes.

The reason why "self destructing" is enjoyable is because a lot of people take their human costume too seriously, they get trapped within the confines of their own conditioning. Break that down temporarily and see what happens. Maybe this isn't enjoyable for everyone, I don't know, but I sure as heck like it a lot. Some of my greatest moments of pure, unadulterated joy were moments where I "forgot who I was", or at least did not recognize self in the normal sense anymore. Eyes closed, in a void of nothing but space and energy, I am lying there crying to myself, "I have no idea who or what I am.... and it is glorious! My God, it is so wonderful I can't even describe it." and I just lie there crying in disbelief and joy.

 

[Mindlusion]

A good question and topic indeed.
Why do we do this? My first thought is that naturally we should be curious, I would think everyone would like to experience what we have experienced, at least once.

But this is not the case, again and again, I meet people who at first are curious, but once they realize what they are getting into, they back out, terrified, unwilling to experience "the breakthrough".

Now I realize it takes a certain type of person, willing to destroy ever part of them, brutally, painfully, and not just out of curiosity, this person is willing to do this, again and again! Like anyone, I first got into this because I was curious. As I have with every substance. But high dose psychedelics, pertaining to complete and utter destruction and ego death, I tell people about my experiences, and they ask me "are you crazy? why would you do that to yourself?" I guess the reason why I do it, I really don't know, I am drawn to it somehow, I guess I like it, but do I actually "like" it? I don't think I do. Its something much different then simply 'liking' the intense effects of these substances.

So honestly I don't know why I do this, I just do it.

 

[bill]

A good question and topic indeed.
Why do we do this? My first thought is that naturally we should be curious, I would think everyone would like to experience what we have experienced, at least once.

But this is not the case, again and again, I meet people who at first are curious, but once they realize what they are getting into, they back out, terrified, unwilling to experience "the breakthrough".

Now I realize it takes a certain type of person, willing to destroy ever part of them, brutally, painfully, and not just out of curiosity, this person is willing to do this, again and again! Like anyone, I first got into this because I was curious. As I have with every substance. But high dose psychedelics, pertaining to complete and utter destruction and ego death, I tell people about my experiences, and they ask me "are you crazy? why would you do that to yourself?" I guess the reason why I do it, I really don't know, I am drawn to it somehow, I guess I like it, but do I actually "like" it? I don't think I do. Its something much different then simply 'liking' the intense effects of these substances.

So honestly I don't know why I do this, I just do it.

I understand what you mean when you say do you "like it". I haven't smoked DMT for a while after my last trip. For a while I just laid there and my only thought was "why do I do this?". To me DMT definitely takes dedication and and will power. No matter how prepared you think you are you will never be fully prepared for what DMT can show/do to you. Why do I/we do it? Curiosity for me. I have to know how everything works, why does that do this and why that relates to this. DMT is truly the final frontier to me. I WANT to know at even the cost of complete death and recreation.