The importance of proper specimen storage and labeling! (Even with plants)

[Th3k1d93]

So, I wanted to give a personal anecdote that occurred recently, on the importance of proper labeling and storage of ALL specimens, even plants.

About a month ago, I got home from a business conference, and saw a blender full of 75 grams of ground shrubby material. I could have sworn up and down it was Caapi vine I had prepared the week before, so I went ahead and started a brew that day with intentions of communing with mother ayahuasca the next day.

Thank the stars that I pulled about 45ml of the resulting tea (about 1/10th of total liquid) as a micro dose to test strength the night before.

Turns out it was a solid blend of Datura Inoxia seeds/vegetative material. It was enough to induce full blown delirium - vivid hallucinations of people not there and the inability to walk without falling over included - for nearly 60 hours.

I'm beyond lucky that I took as small of a dose as I did, rather than go for the whole thing all at once the next day.

I should have known something was up because of the starchiness of the resulting tea, but I didn't think anything of it until the wrong kind of experience started up.


TL;DR - LABEL AND STORE YOUR SPECIMENS PROPERLY.

 

[Voidmatrix]

All I can say is I am glad and thankful that you're okay.

Good message here.

One love

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Is datura something you have a use for?

Gives me the creeps.

 

[Th3k1d93]

Is datura something you have a use for?

Gives me the creeps.

It's a wonderful plant ally as either an admixture at lower doses, or for legitimate medical uses (nausea primarily). I utilize relatively small doses of it on a semi-frequent basis; enough to grow, harvest, and tincture it for the utility.

But no, I have no use for delirium-inducing dosages of any tropane alkaloid producing plant these days.

 

[roninsina]

Is datura something you have a use for?

Gives me the creeps.

It's a wonderful plant ally as either an admixture at lower doses, or for legitimate medical uses (nausea primarily). I utilize relatively small doses of it on a semi-frequent basis; enough to grow, harvest, and tincture it for the utility.

But no, I have no use for delirium-inducing dosages of any tropane alkaloid producing plant these days.

I’m wondering how you’re metering your doses. Do you grow under controlled conditions, or have some means of quantitative analysis, or just winging it with the first dose?

 

[Th3k1d93]

I’m wondering how you’re metering your doses. Do you grow under controlled conditions, or have some means of quantitative analysis, or just winging it with the first dose?

Transdermal formulation with an oil base and beeswax tends to be incredibly safe in small amounts.

Aside from that, the seeds are much more reliable when it comes to consistent alkaloid levels through the same plant, and one seed consistently is enough for legitimate use for nausea, without ever being enough to induce psychoactive side effects.

I've never experienced delirium to the extent I had listed above though, even after hundreds of uses in small, rational, 1-3 seed dosages.

(I have a severe chronic medical condition where severe and unrelenting nausea is part of it. On top of prescriptions for Zofran, Compazine, and Promethazine, I'm still left needing help in the anti-emetic arena most days.)

 

[roninsina]

The use of one to a few seeds has been purported many times on these forums to be a somewhat reliably safe dose for bronchodilation and vasodilation. Anti nauseant makes sense. I swear I’m not trying to get the both of us flamed for talking tropanes, but I would love to hear about the specifics of your topical preparation.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I saw this last week and I too am glad that you're OK. I just wondered if you've noticed any further consequences/after-effects in the course of time.

Tropanes do have medicinal uses and both you and roninsina are not alone in knowing it really is the dose that is paramount in doing this safely. A standardised topical preparation is a good way of doing this. Tropane-flaming would (I hope) only occur if someone presented your accident as a way of 'getting high and seeing funny s*it'.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I saw this last week and I too am glad that you're OK. I just wondered if you've noticed any further consequences/after-effects in the course of time.

Tropanes do have medicinal uses and both you and roninsina are not alone in knowing it really is the dose that is paramount in doing this safely. A standardised topical preparation is a good way of doing this. Tropane-flaming would (I hope) only occur if someone presented your accident as a way of 'getting high and seeing funny s*it'.

Wasn't it Shulgin that popularized, "the dose makes the toxin"?

One love

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Wasn't it Shulgin that popularized, "the dose makes the toxin"?

I always thought he was just quoting Paracelsus, if that counts as popularising :lol:

 

[Voidmatrix]

Wasn't it Shulgin that popularized, "the dose makes the toxin"?

I always thought he was just quoting Paracelsus, if that counts as popularising :lol:

I'm almost positive he was quoting someone else, but sometimes the person who comes up with a statement isn't responsible for it popularization, so I give credit to Shulgin :lol:

One love

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Will Paracelsus remain more obscure than Shulgin (who, let's face it, isn't [wasn't] the world's least obscure person either)? Only time will tell. While I have four books by Shulgin and only one anthology of Paracelsus' works, that hardly counts as representative. And I get the hunch that Paracelsus was quoting some ancient Greek or other (probably not Socrates) - not to mention the question of which ancient Egyptian they in turn were quoting - so it all becomes distinctly relative.

[Hopefully this still counts as a relative tangent rather than a derailment ]

 

[Voidmatrix]

Will Paracelsus remain more obscure than Shulgin (who, let's face it, isn't [wasn't] the world's least obscure person either)? Only time will tell. While I have four books by Shulgin and only one anthology of Paracelsus' works, that hardly counts as representative. And I get the hunch that Paracelsus was quoting some ancient Greek or other (probably not Socrates) - not to mention the question of which ancient Egyptian they in turn were quoting - so it all becomes distinctly relative.

[Hopefully this still counts as a relative tangent rather than a derailment ]

Well, I think this is a good adjunct, but if not then we're both guilty:lol:

I think the passage of time will change details of our discussion as well. Those that are more current will generally have more sway over "popularization" of stuff.

One love

 

[Th3k1d93]

I saw this last week and I too am glad that you're OK. I just wondered if you've noticed any further consequences/after-effects in the course of time.

Tropanes do have medicinal uses and both you and roninsina are not alone in knowing it really is the dose that is paramount in doing this safely. A standardised topical preparation is a good way of doing this. Tropane-flaming would (I hope) only occur if someone presented your accident as a way of 'getting high and seeing funny s*it'.

I use 100 seeds, ground fine, infused into 3 TBPS room-temperature MCT oil for about a month. Then after 30 days, filter through cheese cloth, and add 4 tablespoons of Beeswax on low heat. Blend thoroughly, and let set into whichever jars for storage that you'd like!

It works fantastically for anti-emesis when applied to capillary-dense areas and topical pain relief.


As far as "seeing funny sh*t...." Uhm, lol. The visions induced were anything BUT funny. They were honestly quite terrifying, almost like living through a graphic body-horror movie. Friends morphing into saber-toothed demonic figures, decrepit looking hands gripping walls around corners, etc.

Terrifying to be honest.

 

[Th3k1d93]

Wasn't it Shulgin that popularized, "the dose makes the toxin"?

I always thought he was just quoting Paracelsus, if that counts as popularising :lol:

It absolutely was a Paracelsus tidbit of philosophy

 

[ShamanisticVibes]

I do need to say that I am glad you are ok, and had the sense to microdose before ingesting the possibly questionable brew.

That being said, I am also interested in this. I have been keeping about 50-75 seeds in a bag since my datura innoxia seeded out last year, before I took it to the woods to release it into the wild. I haven't even thought about getting into it since I placed it in the bag due to a very extreme lack of knowledge on the subject. Is there any literature that you could recommend? My life has recently taken a turn for the better and I am returning to past interests, and I came across the bag yesterday, and today I ran across this post. It seems like it may be the right time for me to educate myself a bit more and attempt an experiment. My foremost priority, naturally, is safety.

 

[roninsina]

I saw this last week and I too am glad that you're OK. I just wondered if you've noticed any further consequences/after-effects in the course of time.

Tropanes do have medicinal uses and both you and roninsina are not alone in knowing it really is the dose that is paramount in doing this safely. A standardised topical preparation is a good way of doing this. Tropane-flaming would (I hope) only occur if someone presented your accident as a way of 'getting high and seeing funny s*it'.

I use 100 seeds, ground fine, infused into 3 TBPS room-temperature MCT oil for about a month. Then after 30 days, filter through cheese cloth, and add 4 tablespoons of Beeswax on low heat. Blend thoroughly, and let set into whichever jars for storage that you'd like!

It works fantastically for anti-emesis when applied to capillary-dense areas and topical pain relief.


As far as "seeing funny sh*t...." Uhm, lol. The visions induced were anything BUT funny. They were honestly quite terrifying, almost like living through a graphic body-horror movie. Friends morphing into saber-toothed demonic figures, decrepit looking hands gripping walls around corners, etc.

Terrifying to be honest.

Oh no! I’m sorry you had such an unpleasant experience. I hope there are no lingering negative effects.

Thank you for this valuable information. And I’d never heard of MCT before. It appears to be ideal for both a solvent and to facilitate transdermal absorption. I will definitely be using this post as a reference :thumb_up: