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The kykeon myths

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norcereus

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I have for a long time been interested in the anchient mystery brews like kykeon and soma, and have read all I can find regarding them. Many theories have been made as to what both were, and no one seemes to agrea as to what is the most likely. I would like to make a list of the theories and some posible kandidates, all psychedeliks of the old world may have been used. And there may ewen have been no psychedelic at all.

The mysteries at Eleusis was preformed regulary for atleast 2000 years, and probably had an ewen older pre history.
It was also a festival of some sort that lasted atleast one week, and inkluded fasting and a pilgrimage. It is like other rites frome around the world, like the huichol pilgrimage, with rituals performed along the way. The "pilgrims were gradualy forced out of their ordinary frame of mind, this makes for an exelent mind set for life transformation.

So what was the drink they got at the end of the ordeals, culd it just have been a rich and strong barley wine. that gave them both the rush of shugars, alkohol, and sustinance. It culd have been cuite psychedelik just like that to be brogth back from a state of hunger and sleep deprivation with sutch an luxurious drink.

The other theories:

1 WASSON/HOFMANN/RUCK theory = kykeon was a brew containing Ergot. It is posible but have to my knowledge not been prowen to work. But the teory is sound, water extrakt of ergot shuld not contain ergot toxins. or culd the brew have ben made by doing a partial hydrolysis with potash, thus making ergot peptides in to ergotamins as sugested by Peter Webster in Mixing the Kykeon

2 Terence Mcenna = kykeon was made of a psilocybe mushroom. It is stil posible but not as likely, but could they not have lerned to grow the mushrom in large clay pots like they made alkohol. By infesting coked barley with a easly grown psilocybe they could have made large amounts of psyhoaktive barley to make vine/beer from. and ones a clay pot has been infested you only have to fill it with coked arley and the whole thing starts again, this is done in fermentation in indigenus cultures when making beer.

3 opium/cannabis........ if you have ingested an opioid and then smoked a bowl you will know that this mix is quite psychedelic.

4 amanita .... unlikely but stil posible, but culd they have gatherd enougth.....?

5 Acasia/harmalla = quite posible, an easly cept sekret, and large amounts could be made.

6 other ......there is many things that could have been used, maybe they used whatewer they got their hands on that could make the pilgrims see their life from a new perspektive. but it is most likely that it was the same thing year after year.

The anchients knew a lot about plants and had lots of diferent plants with psychoaktive effekts at their disposal. but people at tat time shuld know the effekts of many of thise plants to, so shuld they not have been able to recognice a familiar high. The vines of anchient Grees was ofthen spiced with psychoative plants, ewery thing from hemp to henbane vas used, and there aparently was ofthen need for antidotes to be administerd after a long visit to the lokal drinking establshment. so they knew their plants.

plees ad any theory I forgot, and I would lowe to hear what you think about this fasinating mysterie
 
"1 WASSON/HOFMANN/RUCK theory = kykeon was a brew containing Ergot. It is posible but have to my knowledge not been prowen to work. But the teory is sound, water extrakt of ergot shuld not contain ergot toxins. or culd the brew have ben made by doing a partial hydrolysis with potash, thus making ergot peptides in to ergotamins as sugested by Peter Webster in Mixing the Kykeon"

Wow, use the spellcheck! Since reading about LSH I've wondered if an LSA-containing seed mixed with an acetaldehyde-rich brew could be the key ingredient in question. Funny how Hofmann says it's ergot-related, McKenna's sure kykeon and soma are psilocybin-related (with possible harmala admixture); I don't think the description fits an acacia/Rue blend, but many including me feel that the Kabbalists, and who knows, Moses, were using such a blend.

Then again I don't know much chemistry but don't think it's that easy to make lysergic acid from ergot; I'm assuming Hofmann knows the chemistry side better. Given the descriptions thereof (including Plato's philosophy, world of forms and the cave myth; he was a likely participant in the Mysteries) I strongly suspect it's ergot-related. Are you familiar with any of the original sources?
 
Sorry about the spelling, but there is no spell check in the nursery, or I am blind and can not find it.(this one was cheked of site)

As for the lsa/lsh idea, it is obviously one of the most plausible, but it have many things against it. As far as I can see it is no sure medicine, and it may have many possible side effects. But there may be something we in modern times do not do, or a mix that will make it a better entheogen. It could also be that the south American shamans that use small amounts of olioqui with big effects, use some reagent as lime or some herb. there is something here we do not understand. It must have been possible to do with "stone age chemistry" or a readily available admixture, and it had to have no adverse effects. It could of course be that they were made more sensitive to the medicine by some sort of diet or fast.

As for the acacia/rue and the cabalists I agree they probably used that, and other things. and it probably was not the kykeon.

original sources, no I have just read what I can find in the readily available psychedelic literature, on the net and forums, it is all theories and suggestions. I have read some of the things that is known about the rite, it is when they arrive at eleusis nothing is known. but there is some clues, both in the mythos and in rumors, but I think the two recipe that is known both in works of fiction from the period probably is misleading.

We have lost so much knowledge about the natural world, and that is my main interest, to find some of the lost magic of old.
 
norcereus said:
As for the acacia/rue and the cabalists I agree they probably used that, and other things. and it probably was not the kykeon.

Nah! The Kaballah appeared much later (it's at the most from the IVth century CE). The Jews and certainly other Semitic cultures may have used acacia on its own. There are some reports that suggest that at least some decoctions or infusions may not require MAOIs. There is a serious need for research on Acacia, especially Mediterranean species and their pharmacology.

But back to your interesting questions, the Syrian rue on its own is pretty psychedelic, like Caapi is. Also do remember that the Mystes arrived at the Eleusis sanctuary after prolonged fasting, which might make any even slightly psychedelic preparation quite powerful in their debilitated bodies.
 
There is one thing i don't understand: there is an innumerably amount of substances that can cause psychedelic effects. Why is everybody so sure that the kykeon must have been an ergot extract?

Is it just because rye is mentioned as one of the ingredients?

And what if the main ingredient was just carefully kept secret to enhance so to speak it's X-factor?

I think we can all find a large list of substances of wich we know the greeks knew them and possibly an even larger list of substances of wich we know that the greeks contemporaries knew them and wich the greeks could also have known.

The ergot is just one of the possibility's.
I'm not even gonna try to sum up the others.
 
picatris said:
Nah! The Kaballah appeared much later (it's at the most from the IVth century CE). The Jews and certainly other Semitic cultures may have used acacia on its own. There are some reports that suggest that at least some decoctions or infusions may not require MAOIs. There is a serious need for research on Acacia, especially Mediterranean species and their pharmacology.

But back to your interesting questions, the Syrian rue on its own is pretty psychedelic, like Caapi is. Also do remember that the Mystes arrived at the Eleusis sanctuary after prolonged fasting, which might make any even slightly psychedelic preparation quite powerful in their debilitated bodies.

I know wery litle about the Kaballah and its history, I ment the tribes of the general erea. The acasia's of north afrika/mediterrania is something I have herd about but find litle reference to. it is of great interest, and may have been important in the formation of the earley religions and societys in the erea.

And yes I belive fasting may have had a huge role in the effekts of the kykeon, but the kykeon shuld still be something that produses reliable results.
 
polytrip said:
There is one thing i don't understand: there is an innumerably amount of substances that can cause psychedelic effects. Why is everybody so sure that the kykeon must have been an ergot extract?

Is it just because rye is mentioned as one of the ingredients?

And what if the main ingredient was just carefully kept secret to enhance so to speak it's X-factor?

I think we can all find a large list of substances of wich we know the greeks knew them and possibly an even larger list of substances of wich we know that the greeks contemporaries knew them and wich the greeks could also have known.

The ergot is just one of the possibility's.
I'm not even gonna try to sum up the others.

yes ergot is probaly over emphecised as the most likely special ingreedient in the kykeon, it is not a straigth forward thing to use. If the kykeon contain some ellement of ergot, there has to be a special way to brew it, or a special admixture. this is then the interesting thing about the lost magical brews, was it something we do not know of, a "new" drug or "new" mix. Or is it a plant that is extingth, or one that no longer grows in that erea because of climat cange or ower harvest. Or did they use a special form of administration, sublingualy or snuffed.

I wonder if the ergot/morning glory alkaloids is stronger when used sublingualy, it would explain the use of small amounts of olioqui seeds by the shamans of south America. I see on the forum that we are inovative and find out how to better use the entheogens, and trough the anchient myths we may find hints of new things or ways to use plants we think is unusable, have to great side effekts or not strong enough effekt. the last 60 years we have found huge amounts of forgotten tresures of the plant world, I think there is more to be found.
 
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