The official "Is this chem ok to use? / Where can I find ...?" thread

[endlessness]

It is a common question that people ask, if a certain chemical is OK to use for extraction or not, and also where to find such and such chemical. Instead of cluttering up the forum with hundreds of threads about it, those who have these question can post here (and threads made with such questions will be merged here).

But before asking such questions, here's a few important links you should THOROUGHLY read:

Check what your solvent contains here thread

FAQ: Is my solvent/chemical OK to use ?

The Suppliers section

 

[Portals2Eternity]

Ok great. I was going to do an evap. test myself but just wanted to see if anyone had any concrete info re: any or all brands of vm&p having additives it didn't, say 3 yrs ago. And with the NaOH in question, I know of others who've used it no problem, just was concerned with, much like the naphtha, of additives changing over time. The manufacturer says that the com star pure lye drain opener is good for soap and msds says 99.9% lye...

 

[TGO]

I'm really sorry to those who've seen these questions in waves, for years, but I didn't satisfactorily resolve this question yet. I'm obtaining the rest of my supplies, and have a question re: my NaOH; the msds for Comstar Pure Lye drain opener said it was 99.9% NaOH. Is this sufficient? Thanks in advance!

As I mentioned in your other thread, you'll have to look further into the safety data sheet to see what else is in it. If it doesn't mention what the other 0.1% is, then I personally wouldn't use it. Sometimes companies put metal flakes and other junk/additives in their lye. The one you mentioned in your other thread was 100% lye, so why not use that one? With lye, 100% is preferred (and safest).

Alternatively, you can use pickling lime (found in canning sections of super markets) and follow Q21Q21's Fluffy white funfest tek. That is what I've been doing lately and have been getting excellent results without the use of lye. I use ACRB so I add a mini a/b when using the funfest tek.

As for naphtha, do an evap test. If it leaves any residue on a clean glass dish after evaporating, do not use it. If you can't find quality naphtha, look for high purity n-Heptane.

Good luck with your quest!

 

[Forestwalker]

I'm reading Kash s LSA extraction tek and toluene is used. Where I live toluene has been removed from most areas for sale and replaced with xylene , pretty Close but I was wondering if anyone knew if the added methyl group would drastically
Alter the tek s safety for consumption, if it (toluene) was replaced with xylene for those who don't want to order DCM or Toluene and prefer a lower level of notice by using that Solv? I looked around the wikis some and didn't really see a direct yes it could be substituted , however I assume it is safe, but thought better I ask more experienced people for my sake and anyone else who may be running into the identical issue s looking for a suitable solvent.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I'm really sorry to those who've seen these questions in waves, for years, but I didn't satisfactorily resolve this question yet. I'm obtaining the rest of my supplies, and have a question re: my NaOH; the msds for Comstar Pure Lye drain opener said it was 99.9% NaOH. Is this sufficient? Thanks in advance!

As I mentioned in your other thread, you'll have to look further into the safety data sheet to see what else is in it. If it doesn't mention what the other 0.1% is, then I personally wouldn't use it. Sometimes companies put metal flakes and other junk/additives in their lye. The one you mentioned in your other thread was 100% lye, so why not use that one? With lye, 100% is preferred (and safest).

[...]

Good luck with your quest!

There's no such thing as 100% in these things. The 0.1% is most likely water and sodium carbonate. Additional ingredients such as aluminium powder or sodium nitrate would have to be listed among the ingredients. As long as the product is white granules I'd say it's OK.

Even the highest laboratory grades of NaOH won't be 100%, although 99.999% is fairly close.

 

[TGO]

Thanks for pointing that out, DF0! I guess I've been worried about nothing all this time!

:lol:

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Yooo so I got another Solvent-Question.

Yeah I read all solvent-question-regarding threads so far, but in my case it's a little special:


So it is okay to use Heptane or even Hexane if the temperature is high anough.

1.) does this mean, that in hexane it is soluble the least (compared to heptane and naphtha) and will precipitate the fastest / easiest ?
I guess I could heat Hexane up nearly to the boiling point ( = above 60°C) and then it will absorb quite as nice as the regular stuff, Naphtha, etc. - am I right ?


2.) even more important: I haven't read anything about Cyclohexane. So there is a talk about aromatic solvents (Toluene / Xylene) and aliphatic ones (Naphtha / Heptane). But this one is neither aromatic, nor aliphatic (with its cyclo-properties).
Would it make ANY difference for Cyclohexane, compared to regular Hexane ? Sadly I did not get any information about this so far anywhere.

THX !

 

[potato]

Brennendes Wasser, why are you curious about the applicability of hexane? If you have some in your possession and want to use it for an extraction, you should make sure it's clean via evaporation and if so, go ahead and use it. It will probably work well. Don't heat it more than you would heat naphtha (definitely don't get it near boiling).

1) In general, DMT's solubility will be hexane<heptane<naphtha. A lot of naphtha contains aromatic hydrocarbons which increase the solubility of DMT but also leads to dissolution of unwanted plant fats, as seen with xylene and toluene. Hexane and heptane are purely aliphatic, containing no aromatics, and thus will no pick up as much plant fats but will not dissolve DMT quite as well.

You do not have to heat hexane/heptane more than naphtha because DMT will precipitate more easily in the pure aliphatic solvents. Furthermore, heating any polar solvent to near-boiling will result in a lot more unwanted compounds dissolving in it.

2) What do you mean by "regular hexane?" Straight-chain hexane will dissolve DMT better than cyclohexane because cyclohexane's electrons are slightly more constricted and exhibit weaker London dispersion forces. Cyclohexane is 100% aliphatic and doesn't exhibit any aromatic-like qualities.

I love these super-specific chemistry questions. Hopefully I didn't provide any misinformation. Cheers!

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

I'm asking because I dont even have it : P - so far.

But it's the only thing I may get easily, so that's why I want to know if its even worth it.

So you mean Hexane is already a kind of *bad* and Cyclohexane is even worse ?

That's bad news ... yeah I know its not aromatic, but I thought aliphatic would be only the straight-chained Carbohydrates. So let's make this clear again:

Cyclohexane will dissolve the least DMT.

But if I heat it MORE than Naphtha, then shouldn't there be a point where I can EXACTLY compensate the lesser affinity to DMT ?

I mean yeah - totally hot Cyclohexane will be possibly too much, but mustn't there be an exact point where I can get the same amount as with Naphtha, if I just don't make it too hot ?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

2.) even more important: I haven't read anything about Cyclohexane. So there is a talk about aromatic solvents (Toluene / Xylene) and aliphatic ones (Naphtha / Heptane). But this one is neither aromatic, nor aliphatic (with its cyclo-properties).
Would it make ANY difference for Cyclohexane, compared to regular Hexane ? Sadly I did not get any information about this so far anywhere.

If you have access to cyclohexane, I'd strongly suggest you give it a try as your primary solvent just so we get some data. It would be very interesting to get some picture of the solubility curve for this solvent. (It'll be useless for freeze precipitation though, with its melting/freezing point of 6.47 °C.)

It [cyclohexane] is frequently used as a recrystallization solvent, as many organic compounds exhibit good solubility in hot cyclohexane and poor solubility at low temperatures.

Hexane is already a kind of *bad* and Cyclohexane is even worse ?

One particularly bad thing about n-hexane is its neurotoxicity. Cyclohexane does not display this property (of course, I wouldn't put it on my cornflakes!)

Anyhow, go ahead extract and recrystallise with cyclohexane. It should be just fine, assuming you're aware of all the safety precautions required for such activities.

aliphatic would be only the straight-chained Carbohydrates

The term you need for cyclohexane is "alicyclic". And they are hydrocarbons - carbohydrates are sugars, starches and the like.

 

[tracid1987]

Hi folks. Could anybody explain me what is the difference between NaOHs sold on the market?
I have found lye drain opener for cca 10dollars per lb (cca half a kilo) on amazon, and after searching for it in my home country i have found NaOH for 2eur per kilo, or 4eur for half a kilo.there are huge differences in price. i know theres much about the supplier but 10dollar for half a kilo and 2euros for a kilo is like sky and earth.

Are there cathegories of NaOH and i have to use a specific one or it doesnt matter?
Thank you

 

[Gowpen]

Hi folks. Could anybody explain me what is the difference between NaOHs sold on the market?
I have found lye drain opener for cca 10dollars per lb (cca half a kilo) on amazon, and after searching for it in my home country i have found NaOH for 2eur per kilo, or 4eur for half a kilo.there are huge differences in price. i know theres much about the supplier but 10dollar for half a kilo and 2euros for a kilo is like sky and earth.

Are there categories of NaOH and i have to use a specific one or it doesn't matter?
Thank you

Hi, yes there are many products sold as 'Caustic Soda' or NaOH. Some have Aluminum chips/shards in it, some are coloured/colored, some have all manor of 'additives'. All of them more dangerous than your intention. What you need is 99%+ pure and only Nao, Sodium Hydroxide.
It can be difficult to find. Many of the additives used in it are for reasons unimportant really, some just so you cant use it to basify a substance, one to make someone sick if they swallow it I think too. Whilst I cant explain the differences, I can explain the need for only one substance. Sodium Hydroxide 99+% pure.

Unfortunately and apparently this same substance (NaOH) can be, and is, used for other nefarious drug related uses, Meth for example uses a similar process. Its a 'watched' chemical mostly used domestically for drain blockages.

Imagine if the sale of it (NaOH), as the bar code is scanned, sends a photo taken of the buyer to the facial recognition software in the sky. Similar to the Pharmacist/Chemist ID thing now, taking your license number for flu medication and putting that info on a national database. scary.

With DMT the need for a good basic understanding of chemistry mixed with a really good technique/method to extract is obvious. I also vaguely recall that Hexane and Cyclohexane are/were pure hydrocarbons and evaping them does obvious damage to the atmosphere and even the lungs of the innocent. Freezing 'Shellite' 'Naphtha' works again and again and again. Hot/warm systems worry me, with the exception of the re-crystallizing stage(s).

Vinegar is not an issue to get either, and distilled water.
IMHO Vinegar is better than say Hydrochloric acid. We are just borrowing the Ph of the substances.

Good luck and be safe. Get 99+% pure.
G

 

[tracid1987]

Hi folks. Could anybody explain me what is the difference between NaOHs sold on the market?
I have found lye drain opener for cca 10dollars per lb (cca half a kilo) on amazon, and after searching for it in my home country i have found NaOH for 2eur per kilo, or 4eur for half a kilo.there are huge differences in price. i know theres much about the supplier but 10dollar for half a kilo and 2euros for a kilo is like sky and earth.

Are there categories of NaOH and i have to use a specific one or it doesn't matter?
Thank you

Hi, yes there are many products sold as 'Caustic Soda' or NaOH. Some have Aluminum chips/shards in it, some are coloured/colored, some have all manor of 'additives'. All of them more dangerous than your intention. What you need is 99%+ pure and only Nao, Sodium Hydroxide.
It can be difficult to find. Many of the additives used in it are for reasons unimportant really, some just so you cant use it to basify a substance, one to make someone sick if they swallow it I think too. Whilst I cant explain the differences, I can explain the need for only one substance. Sodium Hydroxide 99+% pure.

Unfortunately and apparently this same substance (NaOH) can be, and is, used for other nefarious drug related uses, Meth for example uses a similar process. Its a 'watched' chemical mostly used domestically for drain blockages.

Imagine if the sale of it (NaOH), as the bar code is scanned, sends a photo taken of the buyer to the facial recognition software in the sky. Similar to the Pharmacist/Chemist ID thing now, taking your license number for flu medication and putting that info on a national database. scary.

With DMT the need for a good basic understanding of chemistry mixed with a really good technique/method to extract is obvious. I also vaguely recall that Hexane and Cyclohexane are/were pure hydrocarbons and evaping them does obvious damage to the atmosphere and even the lungs of the innocent. Freezing 'Shellite' 'Naphtha' works again and again and again. Hot/warm systems worry me, with the exception of the re-crystallizing stage(s).

Vinegar is not an issue to get either, and distilled water.
IMHO Vinegar is better than say Hydrochloric acid. We are just borrowing the Ph of the substances.

Good luck and be safe. Get 99+% pure.
G

Thank you a lot for your help. I see the NaOH i found for cheap contains Fe max.0.001%, Cl max.0.002%, SO4 max.0.0008%, CO3 max.1.5%, N max.0.0005%, SiO2 max.0.005% ... So such products are a no go for extraction. And i should use NaOH (or KOH) which does not contain any other chemical- or are there any which are allowed? (wonder what else it could contain if its not 100% but 99%+ )

Thanks a lot

 

[Auxin]

...I see the NaOH i found for cheap contains Fe max.0.001%, Cl max.0.002%, SO4 max.0.0008%, CO3 max.1.5%, N max.0.0005%, SiO2 max.0.005% ... So such products are a no go for extraction.

That sounds very good for extraction. When NaOH says 98+% or 99+% the remainder is mostly just water and sodium carbonate, which are fine. A few tiny traces of salt or iron wont matter either.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

We could do with a clear footnote on this matter as people keep asking about it and the replies repeatedly get buried in this megathread. Something that communicates a realistic perspective on notions of purity.

I'll be mulling this over.

 

[Gowpen]

We could do with a clear footnote on this matter as people keep asking about it and the replies repeatedly get buried in this megathread. Something that communicates a realistic perspective on notions of purity.

I'll be mulling this over.

G

 

[tracid1987]

You are a bit confusing me, sorry one says it must be pure, others say tiny amounts of additives doest matter.
As far as i know Red Devil lye is 100% pure- but does it add to the price so much? i dont see the point of paying so much for a 100% pure lye if i can obtain 99+% NaOH for a fragment of the price.
Sorry folks for being irritating, i am just causious. I live in Slovakia so i cannot get lye even from ebay since they do not ship here, and i want to really know if i can use a very cheap alternative which contains tiny amounts of other additives as mentioned above.

Thank you

Edit: i am concerned about the health issues, if the additives can get into the final product or not, may them be in the 0.0005% range or less...

 

[downwardsfromzero]

There is no 100%, except when working without a decimal point. So 99.9% == 100% with no decimal places. That's all it is. Same if working to a limited number of significant figures. Even 95% would equate to 100% at a resolution of 1 significant figure. Whoever tries selling 100% anything deserves a good slap if they're not explaining this.

Sodium hydroxide in particular (along with a number of other very basic hydroxides) realistically won't be obtainable at 100% for the sole fact that it/they absorb atmospheric CO2 so readily. The one that says it's so pure must have an analysis listed as well. Are the impurities significantly less than what you see for the 99+% stuff? If not, the vendor is full of crap and trying to rip people off.

Just buy the 99+% already, you won't be needing anything purer. If you want to waste your money you might as well buy NaOD labelled with 18-O.

 

[tracid1987]

Thank you very much for your replies

 

[tracid1987]

Hi again

I wanted to obtain naphta as suggested over the forum but unfortunately i am very restricted here in Slovakia so decided to find something here in my country.
Before i try my luck and purchase for evaporation test i would like to read your opinions. I will copy from the product spec (some parameters i need to translate so forgive me if i use an incorrect phrase):

Petrolether 40 -60°C SOLVANAL PESTAPUR (price 32,40eur/2,5liter):
Quality : for GC/ECD residual analyzis
CAS : 8032-32-4
distillation scale: 40-60 degree celsius
water: max.100 ppm
free acids(like CH3COOH): 10 ppm
Colour (Hazen)
Remaining after evaporation: 5 ppm

****
Petrolether 40 -65°C (price 6,24eur/1liter):
Quality : G.R.
CAS : 8032-32-4
distillation scale: 40-65 degree celsius
water: max.0,01%
free alkalies (like NH3): max.0,001%
free acids(like CH3COOH): max.0,001%
volatile compounds: max.0,002%
n-Hexane: max.0,3%

****
n-Heptane (price 16,80eur/1liter):
Quality : G.R.
CAS : 142-82-5
volume of main ingredient(GC) min 99,0%(guarenteed value), 99,1%(specified value)
Remaining after evaporation: max 0,001%(guarenteed value), 0,001%(specified value)
free acids(like CH3COOH) max 0,0005%(guarenteed value), 0,0003%(specified value)

****
Does any of the petrolethers qualify if i dont choose the heptane? they are not 100% pure as seen but impurities may be too little to care about...

the second petrolether is the cheapest, could it be good enough?

and a last thing: "G.R. grade" is purer than "pure grade"? seems to me like that.

Thank you a lot

 

[downwardsfromzero]

You want a higher b.p. pet. ether really. That low boiling stuff will evaporate too easily and is thus hella flammable. It would probably be of more use for recrystallisations, as would the heptane. Both pet. ethers you list are essentially the same (CAS no. is the same) but the expensive one is chromatography grade so there's lower non-volatile residue, etc.

BBQ lighting fluid works for extraction (I mean, if it's naphtha) but you have to recrystallise. Good luck, keep it simple.