The world cup

[Rgeular Dudess]

Amazing... So many posts already and nobody is talking about how much money has been spent on the games and not many dimes (if any) have been spent to improve the living conditions of the people who have to live in the slums of South Africa. And there are MANY people who are suffering due to poor living standards over there...

but where has this money been spent? did you think about how a lot of money comes in through tourism, infrastructure development, all the local business and artisans and random market people that have increased incomes, plus at least some extra attention for NGOs that do work specifically with the poor people?

I do think this is important to question about what you are comenting on... But better try to not be black and white, and disconnectedly idealistic. As I mentioned before, I am critical and am sure others here also are of the exagerated salaries and generally unsustainable football 'consumerism'. But if the world cups are gonna happen anyway, isnt it better that they are made in poor countries to at least partially and temporarily bring some investment and attention? Of course ideally the social injustices would all be immediately solved, but unfortunately they are not. So what can we, like literally you and me, do about it? I guess thinking critically as we are trying to, is at least a start, right?

I have to say you´re correct about this. Haven´t thought about it this way. But this situation surely creates some issues between the poor and the upper class. Think about the "security and/or promotional reasons" etc. I mainly think that there should be more discussion about the locals' situation now when there's a chance. The games will get a lot of attention around the world.

Anyway I´m not saying you didn´t have a point in what you said. I agree.

 

[Saidin]

Be aware of what may happen while the world is "distracted"

 

[polytrip]

Be aware of what may happen while the world is "distracted"

you're hinting on another russian invasion?

 

[Saidin]

Not hinting at anything, I have no idea.

But intuition tells me that when the whole world is distracted by looking at a ball on a foot, no one is looking at what is going on with the hands. It is an excellent opportunity for something to happen that people may not pay notice if they are distracted.

 

[endlessness]

Not hinting at anything, I have no idea.

But intuition tells me that when the whole world is distracted by looking at a ball on a foot, no one is looking at what is going on with the hands. It is an excellent opportunity for something to happen that people may not pay notice if they are distracted.

but arent people always distracted one way or another? Why would it be any different than the typical entertainment, tv, news, wars, etc?

I definitely also think there are unscrupulous people getting some benefit out of such big event, but I guess this is always happening, no? Or do you think there is something special about this particular event?

 

[Saidin]

but arent people always distracted one way or another? Why would it be any different than the typical entertainment, tv, news, wars, etc?

I definitely also think there are unscrupulous people getting some benefit out of such big event, but I guess this is always happening, no? Or do you think there is something special about this particular event?

True, people are always distracted, but that is unconscious distraction...the normal ebb and flow of daily life.

There have been so many changes, and "problems" that have surfaced in the past few months...oil leak, financial crisis, Greece, Euro, earthquakes, floods, etc...that people are consciously looking for a distraction from all the mayhem that is happening in the world.

Conscious distraction, of purposefully esacping that which surrounds us (can you really blame people with all the crap that's been happening?), means that if something does happen, they may shove it aside to continue engaging in their distraction. "Oh, one more disatster, lie, decient, fraud...its all the same, but at least I have my football to make me happy in the moment."

The perfect opportunity for escapism (the worlds most watched and popular sporting event)...which would be a good time for something to happen that people may choose not to notice.

 

[endlessness]

but arent people always distracted one way or another? Why would it be any different than the typical entertainment, tv, news, wars, etc?

I definitely also think there are unscrupulous people getting some benefit out of such big event, but I guess this is always happening, no? Or do you think there is something special about this particular event?

True, people are always distracted, but that is unconscious distraction...the normal ebb and flow of daily life.

There have been so many changes, and "problems" that have surfaced in the past few months...oil leak, financial crisis, Greece, Euro, earthquakes, floods, etc...that people are consciously looking for a distraction from all the mayhem that is happening in the world.

Conscious distraction, of purposefully esacping that which surrounds us (can you really blame people with all the crap that's been happening?), means that if something does happen, they may shove it aside to continue engaging in their distraction. "Oh, one more disatster, lie, decient, fraud...its all the same, but at least I have my football to make me happy in the moment."

The perfect opportunity for escapism (the worlds most watched and popular sporting event)...which would be a good time for something to happen that people may choose not to notice.

Not to keep pushing the argument but.... the world cup happens every 4 years since 1930, its not like they are only now inventing it to make us forget about the oil spill or the euro....

 

[Rgeular Dudess]

This might be unrelated but...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6078610/London-Zion-2012-Book

 

[Aegle]

South Africa isn't such a poor country its about 50/50 depending on where you live. Many disadvantaged kids are getting opportunities that they never would have gotten otherwise, specifically with soccer training. Solely due to The Fifa World Cup being held in South Africa. Their are negatives to the world cup sure but I think its doing more than enough good for South Africa.


Much Peace and Sunshine

 

[Saidin]

Not to keep pushing the argument but.... the world cup happens every 4 years since 1930, its not like they are only now inventing it to make us forget about the oil spill or the euro....

I did not say it is a distraction from everything that has been happening (though it most certainly is)...I am saying it could be used as a distraction from something that will happen between now and the end of the Cup...

 

[Saidin]

South Africa isn't such a poor country its about 50/50 depending on where you live. Many disadvantaged kids are getting opportunities that they never would have gotten otherwise, specifically with soccer training. Solely due to The Fifa World Cup being held in South Africa.


Much Peace and Sunshine

True, but how far into debt did South Africa go in order to build out the infrastructure to hold the world cup? It has to be in the Billions, and who benefits the most from those incoming funds? It is certianly not any of the millions that live in shanty towns throughout the country.

Kids who have nothing can now play soccer...what amazing opportunities that has created for the future of the disadvantaged in the country.

 

[Gir]

Uh... Are you kidding saidin? That arena is built on a platinum mine. That mine gave jobs to hundreds of thousands of people..

Plus.. its been there for a while.. and everyone loves soccer. EVERYONE.

Chill out dude.


edit: and I would like to also add... Johannesburg is also known as the SOCCER CITY. bear that in mind before you talk about how much money was spent. sure they could have spent it on food for people that would have lasted what...months? instead they combined it and made jobs for thousands for 2 years, and they in turn made money to buy food for those two years plus extra. not to mention the hundreds of jobs the arena offers in itself.

just sayin.. its not bad..

 

[Aegle]

Saidin

Just to give you an idea apparently South Africa have already made millions in profit off of one of the stadiums in but a few weeks. There are so many positives for South Africa, I really feel that they should be acknowledged.


Much Peace and Happiness

 

[Saidin]

Uh... Are you kidding saidin? That arena is built on a platinum mine. That mine gave jobs to hundreds of thousands of people..

Plus.. its been there for a while.. and everyone loves soccer. EVERYONE.

Chill out dude.


edit: and I would like to also add... Johannesburg is also known as the SOCCER CITY. bear that in mind before you talk about how much money was spent. sure they could have spent it on food for people that would have lasted what...months? instead they combined it and made jobs for thousands for 2 years, and they in turn made money to buy food for those two years plus extra. not to mention the hundreds of jobs the arena offers in itself.

just sayin.. its not bad..

I'm not saying its bad, I'm saying its not all good. I am not upset, so why should I chill out? Just tring to shine a light on truths that most people conviently ignore. Some people benefited temporairly (the poor who got jobs) and some in perpetuity.(the owners of the facilities and infrastructure) Now that the construction for the world cup is finished unemployment is going to rise dramatically. And it has been proven time and time again, that there is a direct correleation between unemployment rate and crime rates.

Platinum/gold/diamonds did not pay for the construction. Loans (with interest) from the World Bank did. Loans that will be paid back with Gold, Diamonds, and Platinum.

Johannesburg the "Soccer City?" is that why there is a greater than 50% vacancy rate in downtown office space and why it has the higest rate of crime in the country? And are you seriously saying that it is better for the governement to borrow and spend billions on stadiums that have limited usage compared to feeding and housing people? By January next year, no one will remember the world cup, but the people will still be poor, and even more so due to the money spent on stuff that will hardly be used anymore.

Just to give you an idea apparently South Africa have already made millions in profit off of one of the stadiums in but a few weeks. There are so many positives for South Africa, I really feel that they should be acknowledged.

That could very well be true, but who is getting that money? Sure isn't the people in Soweto.

Look, I love South Africa, been there twice and going again this year in August. One of the most beautiful places I have ever visited and I've traveled to nearly 60 countries and all 7 continents. But it is also a land of terrible poverty and need, even though it is one the richest in the world as far as natural minerals. The world cup does not help those who need it, it only distracts them from the circumstances in which they live, if only for a little while...and I guess that is a good thing.

 

[clouds]

England's goalkeeper performance made me had an endogenous DMT release. :lol:

 

[gammagore]

Well done USA, wow, they played very well, good game.

 

[Phlux-]

This is south africa - not some african country recovering from civil war or something.

 

[polytrip]

This is south africa - not some african country recovering from civil war or something.

South africa IS an african country recovering from civil war. From multiple civil wars even. Maybe not comparable with the scale of wars elsewhere on the continent, but the influence of apartheid is still felt. Sometimes you even hear that the influence of previous civil wars, the so called 'boerenoorlogen' wich would translate into something like 'farmer-wars' or something, is still felt.
If you read Nelson Mandela's autobiography 'the long road to freedom' as a european, you cannot escape the image of a very, very complex country with a very, very complex history. And while Nelson Mandela tries to paint a picture of the country, as sunny as possible, even he cannot avoid the incredible complex social situation the country is in.
Even the worst of the european getto's are still pretty idyllic, compared to the slums in south africa. And to most of us, european getto's like the worst around paris would already feel pretty much like a warzone.

 

[polytrip]

BTW, about the massively distracted audience: it could be hopefull if politicians in our absence would take some responsibility wich they normally feel inhibited to take. The recent elections in the country where i live have convinced me that democracy as it is, is more or less a failed concept, as the percentage of total morons in the general population is just too high. (that might sound a little harsh but when a party that wants to do away with basic human rights wins an election, you could ask yourself what reasonable objection anyone could still have against harsh judgements)

 

[Saidin]

This is south africa - not some african country recovering from civil war or something.

LOL, wut?

Polytrip explained it quite well, so I won't reiterate what he already said but will add a question. Did you know there are more than 1 million refugees/undocumented immigrants in Johannesburg alone? I suggest you do some research before making statements that are uninformed.

BTW, about the massively distracted audience: it could be hopefull if politicians in our absence would take some responsibility wich they normally feel inhibited to take. The recent elections in the country where i live have convinced me that democracy as it is, is more or less a failed concept, as the percentage of total morons in the general population is just too high. (that might sound a little harsh but when a party that wants to do away with basic human rights wins an election, you could ask yourself what reasonable objection anyone could still have against harsh judgements)

Its a combination of an uninformed populace (I wouldn't go so far as to say they are morons) and politicians who are forced to pander to all sorts of interests in order to maintain their jobs. They are too busy keeping their jobs to do their jobs. At least here in the US. The will of the people has been lost...