Things to ponder before take off

[indydude19]

Greetings all, I think it is a valuable exercise to go into any entheogenic experience with a particular theme, idea, or conundrum in mind that you wish to explore.

Sometimes picking that theme can be difficult, or perhaps the one that would best serve your purposes does not even come to mind. So i started this thread to both give a couple ideas and give a space for others to share as well. Sorry if there is already a thread about this somewhere, but i don't think redundancy is necessarily bad on this subject

I used to focus on how everything is connected when i started using entheogens, especially the spice. From there i moved on to trying to reduce the barriers i put between myself and much of society, LSD and mushrooms were a bit better for these insights, so i could be as intricate a part of the universal machine as is possible for me. I would sometimes focus on certain fears or anxieties i had. Eventually i arrived at the conclusion that we, all things but the living in particular, are all part of the universal body, like cells in a living organism.

This however lead to a conclusion that we are irrelevant. But after further experiences in which i simply tried to clear my mind of my own subjectivity and ego, i found that any action is just as relevant as another, whether its the action of two galaxies merging, or a simple hello to a stranger. But now i am at a point where i find myself harboring more and more negative thoughts. They seem to stem from a judgmental purpose, even though my conscious mind recognizes I have no place to judge.

I am trying to think of a direct way to deal with this during my next hyperspace journey, or other entheogenic endeavor, but the only theme that comes to mind is "don't be judgemental" followed by some reasons not to be. I feel that this is a gross over simplification of the issue though.

I would appreciate any other ways of looking at it or thinking about it. Or even just things you guys like to focus on during these trips, so i have more to think about. i feel that i am at a point where i can only recognize the limitations of my vision and not expand it, so i appreciate any suggestions or help that any of you have to offer. Thanks!

peace and light

 

[AnAngelicProcess]

Well if you're recognizing your judgmental self I'd say that's a good thing, but personally I never plan it out entirely before the trip; I generally plan as little as possible, aside from all the physical precautions and mental setting. But I don't focus on anything before I actually smoke. Like when I'm attempting to meditate, I feel the best approach is to relax and let the control of my thoughts loosen, and allow what ever to come to the surface have it's way. I do the same with DMT, as the substance itself tends to have no trouble handing the reigns of consciousness for a while, and usually have the best insights this way.

Your ideas about the importance of each action having the same sort of causal effect is very similar to my own understandings and observations. Usually I'll think these concepts more thoroughly a while after the experience. My thoughts during the experience can be hazily defined as 'focused awe'; I'm in no position to follow along a linear path of logical thought, yet I'm in a clear headed position to mentally consume the flow of activity that I'll later think about with my more 'rational' mind. Generally within the DMT space, if I come up with a thought at all, it tends to be along the lines of 'This is the absolute truth' and that resonates with the power of a factual assertion with reconciling the ambiguity of that concept at all. Later on, the actual philosophy and skepticism kicks in.

So based on what you've said and what I can recall about my own methods, I'd just clear your head (or attempt to) the next time you use the spice. Don't try to 'clear it' per say, but allow thoughts to manifest themselves. Perhaps that could, if anything, help you better understand what scrutiny you're putting upon yourself.

 

[indydude19]

Well if you're recognizing your judgmental self I'd say that's a good thing, but personally I never plan it out entirely before the trip; I generally plan as little as possible, aside from all the physical precautions and mental setting. But I don't focus on anything before I actually smoke. Like when I'm attempting to meditate, I feel the best approach is to relax and let the control of my thoughts loosen, and allow what ever to come to the surface have it's way. I do the same with DMT, as the substance itself tends to have no trouble handing the reigns of consciousness for a while, and usually have the best insights this way.

Your ideas about the importance of each action having the same sort of causal effect is very similar to my own understandings and observations. Usually I'll think these concepts more thoroughly a while after the experience. My thoughts during the experience can be hazily defined as 'focused awe'; I'm in no position to follow along a linear path of logical thought, yet I'm in a clear headed position to mentally consume the flow of activity that I'll later think about with my more 'rational' mind. Generally within the DMT space, if I come up with a thought at all, it tends to be along the lines of 'This is the absolute truth' and that resonates with the power of a factual assertion with reconciling the ambiguity of that concept at all. Later on, the actual philosophy and skepticism kicks in.

So based on what you've said and what I can recall about my own methods, I'd just clear your head (or attempt to) the next time you use the spice. Don't try to 'clear it' per say, but allow thoughts to manifest themselves. Perhaps that could, if anything, help you better understand what scrutiny you're putting upon yourself.

Thanks for the suggestion. The un-directioned path is what i used to take the first few times i tried the spice and the first times i tried other entheogens, and were seemingly the most pleasant awe inspiring ones. After words when i started reading trip reports and such, i noticed that many people would ponder an issue and arrive at some great truth, where i had always seemed to simply come out with a less convuluded view of the universe. I think i let myself become too focused on the attainment of truth, when there really is no such thing, and not on the experience itself.

I think i was too caught up in influences, both me on the journey and vice verse, instead of the experience. I used to think that i had eliminated my ego and was building a new one, which it still seems at times, but now its looking more like i took the opposite route and magnified my ego by focusing on certain points within it and trying to improve them.

I was violating nature in some past experiences by making function, the trip, fitting form, what i want out of it. Instead i shall try to let form fit function from now on, and just take the lessons and observations i can from entheogens without expectation.

Thanks again very much!:thumb_up:

 

[Entheogenerator]

I don't think that a person can ever completely overcome judgement, or even if that would necessarily be a good thing.

The brain is hard-wired to categorize things. This is essential to our ability to learn and survive. Although there is a lot of middle-ground between the two, "good" and "bad" are essentially the main mental categories that we typically place things in when we pass judgement. Although "good" and bad" are entirely subjective concepts, they are necessary concepts for survival. One has to make judgement in order to determine whether something is beneficial or detrimental to their well-being.

The key is to figure out how you can ensure that most of the judgement that you make is rational and logical, rather than being based on delusion. That is the tricky part

 

[indydude19]

I don't think that a person can ever completely overcome judgement, or even if that would necessarily be a good thing.

The brain is hard-wired to categorize things. This is essential to our ability to learn and survive. Although there is a lot of middle-ground between the two, "good" and "bad" are essentially the main mental categories that we typically place things in when we pass judgement. Although "good" and bad" are entirely subjective concepts, they are necessary concepts for survival. One has to make judgement in order to determine whether something is beneficial or detrimental to their well-being.

The key is to figure out how you can ensure that most of the judgement that you make is rational and logical, rather than being based on delusion. That is the tricky part

I don't really believe in good and bad. I view things as either positive or negative rather than good or bad if that makes sense to you.
I'm speaking more of unnecessary judgment though. Where things that are already categorized are then further evaluated based on my own perceptions about the positivity and negativity of it.

I judge from a platform of being better at times rather than being different and that's what I want minimize. I already do a pretty good job but I still use stereotypes and apply one persons actions to what I expect out of someone else. I need to work on being not having expectations of anyone else so I can really develop my mind and body to their full potential.

I suppose part of my problem is that at times, just sometimes, I view logic as the rational delusion of an insane person or population. It's hard for me to get over the idea that even if we recognize our conformation and hypnosis by societal archetypes we can't escape them without pulling a Walden or being like the guy from into the wild. Even then we still fit into a marginalized category.

I end up being even disillusioned by the concept of positive and negative because I feel that a positive almost always entails a negative result for a different party. Then I just start seeing things as more negative or less negative, which just makes me cynical lol

These are more things to ponder on LSD rather than the spice.

Thanks for continuing this discussion, I really enjoy these kinds of things

 

[Entheogenerator]

I don't really believe in good and bad. I view things as either positive or negative rather than good or bad if that makes sense to you.
I'm speaking more of unnecessary judgment though. Where things that are already categorized are then further evaluated based on my own perceptions about the positivity and negativity of it.

I judge from a platform of being better at times rather than being different and that's what I want minimize. I already do a pretty good job but I still use stereotypes and apply one persons actions to what I expect out of someone else. I need to work on being not having expectations of anyone else so I can really develop my mind and body to their full potential.

I suppose part of my problem is that at times, just sometimes, I view logic as the rational delusion of an insane person or population. It's hard for me to get over the idea that even if we recognize our conformation and hypnosis by societal archetypes we can't escape them without pulling a Walden or being like the guy from into the wild. Even then we still fit into a marginalized category.

I end up being even disillusioned by the concept of positive and negative because I feel that a positive almost always entails a negative result for a different party. Then I just start seeing things as more negative or less negative, which just makes me cynical lol

These are more things to ponder on LSD rather than the spice.

Thanks for continuing this discussion, I really enjoy these kinds of things

Good/bad, positive/negative, beneficial/detrimental... any of the terms could be used in conjunction with the concept I described.

I can understand having a hard time overcoming the "better than" mentality. It certainly is not an easy task to accomplish. I try not to blame society for everything like many people do, but I think one of the fundamental cornerstones of the capitalist/consumerist/western "way", is that the only way to be successful is to compete and be "better than" others. It is a concept that is really drilled into our minds at a very young age, and I think it is very unfortunate. But, like they say, the first step to overcoming a problem is admitting that you have a problem. I'm glad you are able to acknowledge that piece of yourself and strive to improve upon it.

I feel the same way about expectations and stereotypes as I do about passing judgement. As a human being develops and his/her life unfolds, they develop their own unique perception and outlook on things. Each and every one of our experiences alters this perception in some way or another, and we are able make associations based on our memories of past experiences. This allows us to plan things, because we can make an educated guess as to what the outcome of an action might be, based on prior experience and factoring in as many variables as we are aware of.

For example: a curious toddler is at grandma's house, and sees an old-school radiator for the first time. He has no idea what it is, so he investigates. He touches it, and it burns his hand. This information is immediately filed away into his brain: touch heater = feel pain, creating an association in his mind. The next time he encounters a heater like the one that burned him, he recalls this and knows that he doesn't want to touch it. This is an example of how the concept of association can be a useful tool for survival.

But on the other side of the coin, associations can be harmful by causing us to make assumptions without adequate evidence. For example: a child grows up in a very small community of which 99% of the population is the same race as he is. For the first several years of his life, he never encounters a person of a different skin tone. One night his house is broken into and robbed, and he sees a man with a different skin tone than his fleeing the scene. This could create an association in his mind that all people of other races are robbers and criminals. The only way that this association could be reversed, is if he were to interact with other people of different races who are not robbers and criminals. This could bring him to the realization that just because one person of that particular race was a robber, does not mean that all people of that race are robbers. If for the rest of his life after the robbery he never encountered another person of a different skin tone again, the association would likely remain.

These are only two hypothetical examples, but there are countless other real-world examples that display the fact that certain brain functions have potential to be both positive and negative, beneficial and detrimental, depending on the situations in which they manifest. Which, to some extent, ties into my next point...

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Essentially, a simplification of Newton's third law of motion. There are times when positive actions create negative results for other parties, and vice versa. A person goes into the woods and chops down a tree. The person now has wood to build a house for their family to live in, but the tree no longer gets to continue living. However, the tree then decomposes. Microorganisms and fungi get to eat up all the tasty nutrients left in the tree's stump and survive. This is an example of how a positive can create a negative, but then that negative can create a positive, and so on and so forth. It is an endless cycle.

For a number of years, I seemed only able to focus on the negatives. It overwhelmed me, it infiltrated every corner of my mind, it essentially became "me". I subconsciously decided that I was going to be the incarnation of negativity, that somehow that was my purpose in this world: to rain on everyone's parade. To be the ants at everyone's picnic, to be the hair in everyone's soup. It gave me a sense of self. This really had a very severe impact on my well-being for a long time. But I gained a great deal of life experience from it, and I now have the opportunity to channel that experience into helping others.

I still have to put forth a fair amount of effort every day to not go back down that road. It isn't easy. I basically trained my my brain to use anger, hatred and hostility as a knee-jerk reaction to pretty much everything. "I stubbed my toe this morning, I hate the world and everyone/thing in it"... That sort of thing. I am still retraining my emotions to not immediately jump to that. But the important thing is that I have recognized that my old perspective was not a good fit for me and it affected those around me, and I am willing to work towards something else on a daily basis. It sounds like you may be in the same position, but maybe I am wrong.

Unfortunately, I do not really have a lot of advice for you as to how you can overcome the negativity... I got lucky I guess. I took a larger dose of mushrooms than I had planned one day, and all the sudden my goals and aspirations had changed. I still have to do all the work, but I credit the mushrooms for planting the seed of optimism in my head.

Holy *&^$... I just realized how long this response ended up being, and how much it probably makes me look like a crazy person. :shock: It seems logical to me, but I think you might be on to something with your though about logic being the rational delusion of an insane person! :lol:

I hope you can make some sense of my ramblings, if you feel like reading through them, and I hope you find them to be relevant as well. I will leave you with a quote from a dear friend of mine: "cynicism is sanity, but only to a point."

 

[Global]

This however lead to a conclusion that we are irrelevant. But after further experiences in which i simply tried to clear my mind of my own subjectivity and ego, i found that any action is just as relevant as another, whether its the action of two galaxies merging, or a simple hello to a stranger.

I like this...


In response to your actual topic, I recall trying to think of a variety of subjects before taking off, and they would change over time ranging from what I wanted to get out of the experience to thanks and gratitude to requests for protection and many places in between. Later on it simply evolved into merely entering hyperspace with no intention at all and having some faith that whatever was about to happen to me would be happening regardless and any intention I made could make an otherwise satisfactory experience disappointing in relation to said intentions.

 

[indydude19]

I hope you can make some sense of my ramblings, if you feel like reading through them, and I hope you find them to be relevant as well. I will leave you with a quote from a dear friend of mine: "cynicism is sanity, but only to a point."

haha you sound as sane as any of us might be. That was a good exploration of thought. I like the idea of it being a cycle. sometimes i think too linear and fail to see a cycle the whole way through.

As for the negativity, i am a very weird case indeed with it. I have certain goals in life, that will allow me to be content with my life, and they are very good goals, i think.
1. Create a family in which i raise my children to be true leaders of society through example. 2. Have a career where i can help people better their lives or make better decsions to suite their needs.
3. Advance scientific knowledge in a notable way.

I will remain unhappy and un-content until atleast 2 of the 3 are achieved. That being said, i am one of the most optimistic and awe-inspired people you will meet. I do not mix my unhappiness with the rest of my life because i recognize it as my drive to succeed in those goals. It is strange to experience.

I suppose we differ in our ideas about competition a little bit. I see competition as a very beneficial thing for society, if it is the right kind of competition. I am someone who believes in survival of the fittest. I don't think someone should be able to reproduce or get monthly checks if they don't know how to manage thier money, make irresponsible decisions all the time, and fail to educate themselves. The human population is too large to allow for much failure. There's too many people that feel sorry for themselves. I never blame society, i only the blame the person and how they react to the situation they are given. That is why i base my actual happiness, not my daily mood, on achievement. Whether it is something like self-discovery, asking a girl out, or getting a paper or study published. They are all achievements. Having 4 kids when your on welfare and failed to get your highschool diploma is not an achievement though, it is a burden.

So for me to overcome the deeper, more fixed nergativity, i must achieve these goals, which in my belief, is a matter of time, approximately 5 to 8 years haha.

In response to your actual topic, I recall trying to think of a variety of subjects before taking off, and they would change over time ranging from what I wanted to get out of the experience to thanks and gratitude to requests for protection and many places in between. Later on it simply evolved into merely entering hyperspace with no intention at all and having some faith that whatever was about to happen to me would be happening regardless and any intention I made could make an otherwise satisfactory experience disappointing in relation to said intentions.

Very good point. i will remember that.

Thank you both for your input, and any other input you might add, i enjoy these discussion almost too much

 

[Entheogenerator]

I suppose we differ in our ideas about competition a little bit. I see competition as a very beneficial thing for society, if it is the right kind of competition. I am someone who believes in survival of the fittest. I don't think someone should be able to reproduce or get monthly checks if they don't know how to manage thier money, make irresponsible decisions all the time, and fail to educate themselves. The human population is too large to allow for much failure. There's too many people that feel sorry for themselves. I never blame society, i only the blame the person and how they react to the situation they are given. That is why i base my actual happiness, not my daily mood, on achievement. Whether it is something like self-discovery, asking a girl out, or getting a paper or study published. They are all achievements. Having 4 kids when your on welfare and failed to get your highschool diploma is not an achievement though, it is a burden.

I would agree that certain kinds of competition are necessary and positive. But I do think it is unfortunate that in our society as it stands, a person who makes millions of dollars by stepping on anyone in his way is often considered "successful". But a person who lives in a tiny apartment because they devote most of their time and effort to a nonprofit organization that feeds starving children in Africa, or something along those lines, is often considered "unsuccessful". I think success is determined by one's ability to maintain happiness and help others, rather than money or social status.

 

[indydude19]

I think success is determined by one's ability to maintain happiness and help others, rather than money or social status.

I agree but as for feeding starving children in africa, I think there are more important problems that people could work on. Yea it's a nice thing to do but the human population is already too large. STEM careers are a better use of the time we have imo. That doesn't mean I don't support feeding the starving at all. I just think advancing knowledge will have a better impact on humanity and the rest of the natural world in the long run.

 

[Entheogenerator]

I agree but as for feeding starving children in africa, I think there are more important problems that people could work on. Yea it's a nice thing to do but the human population is already too large. STEM careers are a better use of the time we have imo. That doesn't mean I don't support feeding the starving at all. I just think advancing knowledge will have a better impact on humanity and the rest of the natural world in the long run.

That was just an example to get a point across, I agree that there are more important problems that should be addressed.

 

[indydude19]

Understood. Thanks for a good exploration of thought!