Trying to improve Acacia information

[thebrownser]

I just read through the first 50 pages of this thread and there is some amazing stuff!

nen, your posts are soo interesting in here with all of the references and connections you make!

acacian your pictures and experiments are awesome as well!

I Love acacias!! I've got lots of floribunda and acuminata seedlings growing right now

 

[locojuiceman]

For ME ..NOTHING beats Heptane for ACRB extracts. NOTHING ! AFTER pulling all with Heptane, go back with other solvents to get other 'goodies' .. One time the ACRB extract was cooked down further, after all pulls were finished ..it was re-acidified, cooked down, then strained through stainless steel mesh [ 500 ] .. when a mix of Heptane/Naptha was used to pull on this, not much was yielded BUT ... Obtained was a BROWN Crystal ..quite active but no where near the intesnsity of DMT or even NMT ..could this be the 'Mystery Alk'?
Did cooking it down further, 'squeeze' whatever it is, together [ 'concentrated' is the word I think,lol! ] and make it easier to pull out?
Whatever the case, I think we have a LOT still to learn about these ACRB's and other acacia's .. I wonder if Taiwanese ACRB differes from Hawaiian ?
This is awesome, finding all this info out, experimenting and discovering ...
You guys are the BEST !
Thanks so much for all the help

 

[--Shadow]

Hi Shadow, Hexane is a nasty chemical, and in the vain of harm minimisation, Naphtha is less so in some respects, but it is still a chemical not to be messed with. Exploding glass bottles and heat can be an issue with both I would suspect. Both are EXTREMELY flamable. Hexane causes sever breathing and lung issues by all accounts...

Acacias are varied, and as far as the time of day/month/year might vary, the age of plant cross referenced with species, cross referenced with extraction method and DMT content analysis. There is obviously more research needed before your questions can be answered. Location would need be a variable to add. Oh yes and the subjective effect of taking/using DMT
I can tell you that there are probably variations to the DMT extracted from Acacia. What that means is a refinement I am unable to grasp AS yet.

If you read Endlessness's stuff, there are many detectable alkoloids that are testable.

But...... at the end of the day DMT essentially produces a specific psycho-tropic effect, for a specific reason I would hope, it's not, in MHO, 'really' a recreational substance. Often the Yellowish end-product is prefered to the white crystals.
It seems however, there are marked differences between Acacia DMT extaction and Mimosa Hostilles 'Root' bark extraction.
although this type of chatter worries me.......

I made a thread about this not too long ago. Such a great tek that is truly applicable to acacia as well as mimosa. I've seen excellent results many times following q21q21with Acrb again and again. Congrats folks.

related to your questions and my reply it seems, but not the answer we both expected. Massive unbridled and thoughtless quest for more. Incidentally, Acacias, as you quite rightly identified, often grow in deserts. Their roots are like fine spider webs that often grow many meters from the small shallow trunk. Any attempt to move one almost always ends in the death of the plant. 'Root' bark of Acacia is absolutely fobidden, it will kill the plant most definately. As will 'ring barking' a healthy tree. There is obviously an interest in you for Acacia and this thread is for you. I have found Acacia to need a 'gentle' touch when extracting. I found that small twigs are the easiest to grind and for me held the highest DMT content. They are easy to grow and look beautiful in ones garden or in pots.
Where you live will most probably host many species of DMT Acacia. Keep up the good work.
Regards G

Hey Gowpen,
Thanks for the advice about the Hexane... I've never used it myself, only shellite.

To be honest, I didn't really understand you're post... It felt like you were replying to me, but responding to another post.. :? ..

I understand that there are variations in both 'alkaloids present at a given time' & 'volume' in some species.

I get that nitrogen levels, seasonal variation, drought response, and other external factors can affect alkaloid presence & levels, but my question more relates to the physical attributes of Acacia's.

Is there any correlation between the physical attribute of an Acacia and its probability of containing any specific alkaloids?

For example, A.Acuminata may have different variations due to various external factors, but we can reliably say that it's going to contain a degree of certain alkaloids.

Why does the A.Acumainata (narrow phyllode variant) contains higher levels of DMT to other alkaloids? Does this directly correlate to having narrower phyllodes?

This is more what I'm curious about.

-------------

I LOVE Acacia's, and it has been THIS thread that has awoken the pantheistic warrior in me to protect them. I transplanted 46 acacias of various species last weekend in Central NSW, far from my home (I gave away the other 4 as gifts). This included A.Acuminata (broad + narrow), A.Dunnni, A.Cyclops, A.Oxycedrus.

I have another 30 growing at the moment, including A.Redolens (low form) and a rare species of Acacia that I am helping spread to 3 separate locations as a measure of conservation.

Hyperspace is a rare event for me, but it's completely recreational for me - and I don't feel that it is a problem or me disrespecting it. Possibly my interpretation of 'recreational' may be different. Exploring consciousness, going to the gym, these are recreational things that I do without a deep underlying reason for doing it.

DMT is interesting, but Acacia's are more :thumb_up:

 

[Gowpen]

Hi Shadow, Hexane is a nasty chemical, and in the vain of harm minimisation, Naphtha is less so in some respects, but it is still a chemical not to be messed with. Exploding glass bottles and heat can be an issue with both I would suspect. Both are EXTREMELY flamable. Hexane causes sever breathing and lung issues by all accounts...

Acacias are varied, and as far as the time of day/month/year might vary, the age of plant cross referenced with species, cross referenced with extraction method and DMT content analysis. There is obviously more research needed before your questions can be answered. Location would need be a variable to add. Oh yes and the subjective effect of taking/using DMT
I can tell you that there are probably variations to the DMT extracted from Acacia. What that means is a refinement I am unable to grasp AS yet.

If you read Endlessness's stuff, there are many detectable alkoloids that are testable.

But...... at the end of the day DMT essentially produces a specific psycho-tropic effect, for a specific reason I would hope, it's not, in MHO, 'really' a recreational substance. Often the Yellowish end-product is prefered to the white crystals.
It seems however, there are marked differences between Acacia DMT extaction and Mimosa Hostilles 'Root' bark extraction.
although this type of chatter worries me.......

I made a thread about this not too long ago. Such a great tek that is truly applicable to acacia as well as mimosa. I've seen excellent results many times following q21q21with Acrb again and again. Congrats folks.

related to your questions and my reply it seems, but not the answer we both expected. Massive unbridled and thoughtless quest for more. Incidentally, Acacias, as you quite rightly identified, often grow in deserts. Their roots are like fine spider webs that often grow many meters from the small shallow trunk. Any attempt to move one almost always ends in the death of the plant. 'Root' bark of Acacia is absolutely fobidden, it will kill the plant most definately. As will 'ring barking' a healthy tree. There is obviously an interest in you for Acacia and this thread is for you. I have found Acacia to need a 'gentle' touch when extracting. I found that small twigs are the easiest to grind and for me held the highest DMT content. They are easy to grow and look beautiful in ones garden or in pots.
Where you live will most probably host many species of DMT Acacia. Keep up the good work.
Regards G

Hey Gowpen,
Thanks for the advice about the Hexane... I've never used it myself, only shellite.

To be honest, I didn't really understand you're post... It felt like you were replying to me, but responding to another post.. :? ..

I understand that there are variations in both 'alkaloids present at a given time' & 'volume' in some species.

I get that nitrogen levels, seasonal variation, drought response, and other external factors can affect alkaloid presence & levels, but my question more relates to the physical attributes of Acacia's.

Is there any correlation between the physical attribute of an Acacia and its probability of containing any specific alkaloids?

For example, A.Acuminata may have different variations due to various external factors, but we can reliably say that it's going to contain a degree of certain alkaloids.

Why does the A.Acumainata (narrow phyllode variant) contains higher levels of DMT to other alkaloids? Does this directly correlate to having narrower phyllodes?

This is more what I'm curious about.

-------------

I LOVE Acacia's, and it has been THIS thread that has awoken the pantheistic warrior in me to protect them. I transplanted 46 acacias of various species last weekend in Central NSW, far from my home (I gave away the other 4 as gifts). This included A.Acuminata (broad + narrow), A.Dunnni, A.Cyclops, A.Oxycedrus.

I have another 30 growing at the moment, including A.Redolens (low form) and a rare species of Acacia that I am helping spread to 3 separate locations as a measure of conservation.

Hyperspace is a rare event for me, but it's completely recreational for me - and I don't feel that it is a problem or me disrespecting it. Possibly my interpretation of 'recreational' may be different. Exploring consciousness, going to the gym, these are recreational things that I do without a deep underlying reason for doing it.

DMT is interesting, but Acacia's are more :thumb_up:

Im so sorry Shadow, hahaha I was ranting, I'v been absent for some time and forgot who I was responding too. I do appologize. My fingers engaged before I realised I meant Toluene or was it Xylene. I am old, forgive me.

 

[--Shadow]

Haha... no need for apologies Gowpen. In fact, you are one of the earlier contributors to this thread that inspired me.

I've used xylene once before. You're right. It's nasty and quite odorous, but more efficient that shellite if you want to grab all the alkaloids, not favouring DMT.

I'm going to switch and try the sunflower oil method next (or is it vegetable oil? hemp oil? )

.. It's messier, but I'd rather have safer materials around the house

 

[nen888]

..
--Shadow wrote:

I guess I'm question whether or not specific alkaloids are tied to an acacias (or plant's) physical biology traits, and if so what are they to look out for?

..it's mysterious..there does not appear to be any real correlation in morphology..phyllodes can be thin or thick, flowers ball or rod etc...the factors are genetic relationship, and perhaps environmental conditions (incl. soil type and biology) ..
is much study to be done here..


locojuiceman..hard to say what it is without testing..could be a mixture of minor components..but variation in plants may often turn up small amounts of 'mystery' alks..


thebrownser wrote:

I just read through the first 50 pages of this thread and there is some amazing stuff!

nen, your posts are soo interesting in here with all of the references and connections you make!

acacian your pictures and experiments are awesome as well!

I Love acacias!! I've got lots of floribunda and acuminata seedlings growing right now

..very glad you're enjoying, and that you love acacias! thank you.. 2012 was quite a year afterall..


..Gowpen, i really appreciated some of the sentiments in your now only quoted post..'gentle touch' indeed..and the twigs are often the best results..including the joy of seeing trees remain healthy or alive..

..i find the obsession with root bark unnecessary and a pity..for just a bit more percentage irreversible damage is done..sad to see two or three acacia species go the way of their african allies ally, the rhino..

in the case of ACRB i suspect it's actually more often stem bark that people get..the wise harvester would not want to wipe out the trees quickly..also, tests by endlessness showed that the stem bark has a greater dmt to nmt ratio, whereas the root bark is more nmt..so, from both a nexian and plant health perspective, best to prune branches..



..last up, if anyone cares about ethics and the environment,
don't buy any acacia extract..it supports greedy vandals..
don't buy or sell DMT..
encourage the growing of trees and phalaris grass..become self sufficient..
like the nexus encourages and educates about..

but lining the pockets of the greedy and uncaring for a 'spiritual' experience? ..think about it ..and karma..

..in the end i think there will be balance..these people doing this will come to misfortune..certainly if they try to take acacia extracts their minds (& souls) will experience hell..after a while..i've seen this happen before..the acacia will bite back..
it's just unfortunate the unsuspecting may be exposed to this nasty field..so please help spread the word..

with a little patience, people will access ethical experiences..






_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
--Shadow wrote:

[DMT is interesting, but Acacia's are more :thumb_up:

..absolutely!..let's keep sharing the interest (and seeds) of these fascinating lifeforms..
.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

..like of some trees, some people said 'there's plenty of rhino..nothing wrong with taking a few..i want a trophy for my mantlepiece..and, besides, i can sell the horns for it's properties..' ...rhino poaching in africa incidentally is on the increase again..
below, rhino eating acacia (vachellia) foilage..and rare black rhino munching..

 

[thebrownser]

Is it known at what age acacias start producing alkaloids? I tested a bit of phylode from my seedlings with ehrlich and had no reaction. They are just a few months old and still producing the pinnate leaves though.

Edit: Actually there was a bit of purply and red. Hard to see because I used such a little phylode though.. probably 10 mg of young phylode with pinnate leaves still attached!

 

[Kage]

Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong? I tried it twice, and still nothing. It is supposed to be pretty simple science. I have watched many videos and read articles and recipes over an over. Step one, grind to a powder. Step 2 mix it with basified water. Step 3 mix with naphtha, step 4 filter/seperate the naptha off. Then Repeat 2 or 3 times, then freeze the naptha layers over night and then filter that, What did I miss? It is that my freezer was not cold enough? I maxed it out and even still I evaporated it off and there should have been SOME crystals. I just don't get what we did wrong Help anyone?

 

[DreaMTripper]

Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong? I tried it twice, and still nothing. It is supposed to be pretty simple science. I have watched many videos and read articles and recipes over an over. Step one, grind to a powder. Step 2 mix it with basified water. Step 3 mix with naphtha, step 4 filter/seperate the naptha off. Then Repeat 2 or 3 times, then freeze the naptha layers over night and then filter that, What did I miss? It is that my freezer was not cold enough? I maxed it out and even still I evaporated it off and there should have been SOME crystals. I just don't get what we did wrong Help anyone?

Wrong thread, probably best in FAQ.

 

[nen888]

^ thanks again DreaMTripper..

Is it known at what age acacias start producing alkaloids? I tested a bit of phylode from my seedlings with ehrlich and had no reaction. They are just a few months old and still producing the pinnate leaves though.

Edit: Actually there was a bit of purply and red. Hard to see because I used such a little phylode though.. probably 10 mg of young phylode with pinnate leaves still attached!

..somewhere around 18 months to 2 years the adult alkaloid profile develops..researcher J.J. announced at EGA 2009 that he had tested very young A. phlebophylla and A. acuminata phyllodes and found mainly simple tryptamine, and some betacarbolines, in small amounts..

..a reminder to people still after rarer trees, that this thread has had several positive results from varieties of the very common and widely planted A. longifolia..to check it's the right variety just get an ehrlich kit like the wise brownser..and do us and rare trees a favour..A. longifolia is also very fast growing..

please be kind to trees..
.

 

[Seldom]

Nen I got your message, but rather than post a PM back I thought i'd leave a few things here as fuel for contemplation .. i don't know if you remember me saying but i owe my introduction to acacias to you through your 2011 EGA talk, but as a result of my various experiences i've developed different opinions to you about the circulation of information .. but i have no affinity with certainty, and still respect that you care deeply about the wattles.

.. anyway:

The great Clement of Alexandria, a man of Pagan culture believed that "the most prudent course is not to write but to learn and teach by word of mouth, because what is written remains. ... To write all things in a book is to leave a sword in the hands of a child." (from his Stromateis)


"A true teacher selects pupils who have sufficient aptitude for moral and intellectual accountability, but the written word does not select it's readers, who may be stupid and morally degenerate." (Borges)


"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under your feet, and turn again and rend you" (Matthew 7:6)




In one of Bernard Shaw's plays, the library of Alexandria is threatened by fire; someone exclaims that the memory of mankind will burn, and Caesar says: "A shameful memory. Let it burn."


(p.s - don't try to read into 'what i really mean' by these remarks, there's no totalising theory behind them, I post them only as points to encounter on your always unique trajectory through life)

Peace

 

[nen888]

^..good post which is not unlike how i think often, Seldom..

and some say knowledge should only be given to those who ask..

there is a lot i haven't and won't write..i agree with much on oral tradition..

i don't think access to plants or alkaloids alone is enough to make people wiser, or more spiritual, or help them..it's their approach and ability to comprehend which will make a difference..

the information on a few species' contents was put on the net years ago (to which i objected to at the time, and asked not to happen without further study and contemplation) ..a basic idea of the thread was to diversify options to lessen impact on one or two species..and point to sustainability, which was sorely lacking in some net descriptions of these trees and alkaloids..
i was happy to sit silently with much of this for a long time..

it is essentially harm reduction..
but this knowledge in the wrong hands does no good..this has again been seen recently..

as i've said before, without a disciplined, spiritual or wise approach, i don't think having access to these plants or information will help anyone..a casual or greedy approach will lead to harm..

if more trees are grown, this is a good outcome..

the rise of interest in dmt has been driven by a widespread information culture, in search of something ..what, it may not really know..my approach has been to try and get people to see the plants, not the compounds..the natural system, not an isolated concept, or worse still commodity..

the wise will get something from these pages..the foolish and impatient and short sighted will miss it, and will continue in their destructive or futile pursuit..i do the un-wise a favour out of compassion..they were warned..long enough have i watched these things to know that it isn't for everyone..

if a few less trees are harmed (& damage like this happened before the thread) then good..

yeah, Matthew 7:6..
swine already had the pearls..that some may see the value of them is hope, and why write at all..
for already most had lost the garden..

the written word may indeed have corrupted our mental abilities (as some ancients warned)
..but against the sword, the sword must sometimes be wielded..lest what is still sacred be cut to pieces..

but quite enough may well have been said..

Peace also..
.

 

[thebrownser]

I just Ehrlich tested a small vodka extraction of a teensy phylode of acacia floribunda I am growing from seed since the summer and have a very positive result!!
I am super excited!!

Thanks nen for all your acacia info, your thread is why I decided to get floribunda seeds

Also thanks endlessness for answering all my testing questions.

If anyone is thinking of growing floribundas I super recommend it, very quick growth and beautiful plants. It feels good to see them growing happily every day

 

[Koornut]

The wasted lands that have been my commute to work for the last 2 years have been liberated!
Could it be? Nitrogen fixers! Perhaps a dozen, more to come by the looks of it.
Beautiful juveniles, lining the streets. Standing proud.
It seems someone at my local council has half a brain.
Pics to come for ID confirmation at lunch ( because I'm very green (and this is likely a dream uncome true)).

EDIT: further investigation into these beauties is telling me they are a different species altogether.

 

[nen888]

I just Ehrlich tested a small vodka extraction of a teensy phylode of acacia floribunda I am growing from seed since the summer and have a very positive result!!
I am super excited!!

Thanks nen for all your acacia info, your thread is why I decided to get floribunda seeds

Also thanks endlessness for answering all my testing questions.

If anyone is thinking of growing floribundas I super recommend it, very quick growth and beautiful plants. It feels good to see them growing happily every day

..that's inspiring and good to hear brownser..

& Sphorange, good you're training your eyes..there are some more enlightened landscapers out there..
.

..and as an afterword on greed, destruction and abuse of information, plants and potentially people -
BOYCOTT THE SALE OF DMT !

.





..i've said a few times in the thread that if humans get it together, overcome destruction, survive, and make it to the stars, acacias will be one of the pioneer plants..their multiple uses and value give them a special role in inter-species interaction..
i hope this thread helps increase the knowledge of the value of these trees, and the need for preservation of the gene pool..they are wonderful to our environment..
let's look after them..in symbiosis..

here is one of the best concise guides to growing acacias, which i posted in the growing thread, by acacia expert M. Simmons: Cultivation of Acacias

and speaking of the stars, here's the Star Trek Acacia Fleet - 'strong as a tree, protecting the stars'

http://www.acacia-fleet.com/

their emblem below..
far ahead may acacians carry the seed..protecting trees to the stars..
.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Acacia species really do permeate many areas of our planet and societies dont they and have been aiding us quietly but strongly for many years. I like the Startrek link Gene Roddenberry in my opinion was a true visonary Im sure he would have agreed with you. It would be interesting to see different acacia trees living in different gravitational and light atmospheres!

 

[Seldom]

shudders and whispers relating to a small stem-only extraction of a. Pycantha, standard a/b rumored to yield within the .1 range, easy smoke with meteorically intense effects . .



"the blow of the stick is the lightning that makes things visible"



good vibes, future robots

 

[Orion1]

I have an Australian CSIRO Acacia Identification publication i have just purchased that i can upload the photos but dont know how or who to talk to about supplying them to dmtwiki

 

[Orion1]

And if anyone is looking for some different acacias like colei- cole wattle(5%yeild), Accuminata long leaf-rasberry jam(1.75-2.5%), and narrow leaf-sub species rasberry jam, both with good yeilds supposedly, also the maidenii- maiden wattle(up to 6%), check out nindethana seeds Western Australia, at the time of my purchase they were out of obtusafolia- blunt leaf wattle(3%) but the sub species longifolia sophorae grows wild on the sand dunes at the beach here but another with reasonable yeild i am told and they have them in stock too, all at most than reasonable price. They are also a founding? member of greening australia and the first seed bank in Au. So no money touches monsanto or du points hands

 

[Seldom]

:roll: thanks for info ^ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: