Trying to improve Acacia information

[nen888]

phyllode wrote:

acacias as medicinal plants is a big field. And an important one.

One last middle-eastern point.
...Peace guys!

..good one phyllode:d !

..as mentioned in the thread Acacias are also sacred in Islamic traditions, and pre-islamic. That's one thing the three religions of 'the book' agree on..the Acacia!
being not a uniform singular concept, arguments have raged in the islamic world for a long time over the 'worship' of trees, practices which pre-dated the prophet, and were more feminine in nature often..
in the excellent thread The quran and the clear light of the void...
corpus callosum wrote:

The term 'Wahhabi' derives from a Scholar named Muhammad Ibn-Abdul Wahhab and is usually used in a derisive fashion to refer to the proponents of his teachings.His particular focus was on extirpating polytheism which had to some degree become adopted by the Arabs once more, confusing their interpretation of what Islam as a practise is all about.The attributing of special status to inanimate objects such as trees and stones, reminiscent of the times of the Prophet, had 'crept back' into their practise and needed rectifying as it was contrary to the concept of a pure Monotheism.

..from the Quran:

and Athl, Al- Awfi and Ibn Abba0s said that this means tamarisk. Others said that it means a tree that resembles a tamarisk, and it was said that it was the gum acacia or mimosa. And Allah knows best.
﴿وَشَىْءٍ مِّن سِدْرٍ قَلِيلٍ﴾
and some few lote trees. Because the lote trees were the best of the trees with which the garden was replaced, there were only a few of them.

from go-makkah.com

The Cave of Thor (Ghar Thor) is the cave where the prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and Abu Bakr hid from the Kuraish tribe for 3days. It is located about 2.5 km away from Masjid Al-Haram in Mecca. The cave recorded a miracle ; an acacia tree had sprung up in front of the cave, dove flow over, woved its nest and laid eggs and a spider spread its web over cave’s entrance to protect Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) from his enemies.

..

..now here's one of my favourites, Allah be praised! :Uzza, Allat, Menat; Slide 17
[see image attached below] on Islamic Goddesses

Three goddesses of Islam and two Goddess-worshiping kings, Manasseh and King Amon are buried there. See the acacia tree behind her – she was said to dwell in any garden where acacia trees were planted. The Temple was built of acacia wood. The book of 2nd Kings calls Manasseh and Amon evil kings because they took after Solomon and worshipped Goddess AND God. 
Oh, Can’t have that!
The goddess pictured on the right is Menat. Menat means Fate and this painter has her as the crone form of the Arabian triple goddess.

Sometimes these three are called the daughters of Allah. But the middle one, Allat, is actually his spouse and really, they are all three rolled into one goddess.

..peace unto all of you..

below:
Uzza, Allat and Menat & السنط شجرة acacia tree
The Cave of Ghar Thor
Acacia tortillis var. in the Sinai
and some Islamic Hyperspatial Geometric Art..
lastly if you want a laugh, from the surreal Indonesia see Vines form the name of Allah on a Acacia Tree islamic miracle picture..!:shock: :d

 

[phyllode]

^That's what the "main titles" of an acacia pilgrimage reminds me of!
Nice, nen! I wonder if that's Phalaris that Allat's holding? haha. Or she's a good cook. Or both. And i bet one of that owl above's favourite delicacies is the sonoran desert toad of Light! Speaking of, at smaller doses 5-10mg 5meo can induce a kind of physical trip. But it's a bit 'Alien' sometimes to some people. Not fluffy with dancing mice like dmt (only half-jokin) ! And looks like that owl might eat the flowers. What do you think? From wiki.answers.com there's a question: For those interested in Eco-systems generally there's a great little blog on the Sonoran Desert Principles Of Biology Forum
Image of sonoran pygmy owl attached for cute factor .And cool cycles of life-plants-animals pic from same site.
Also, what does heat etc break that acacia glycoside (#891) down into? That I guess would be the claimed active ingredient, no?

Also I think A. raddiana is maybe a sup variety of tortillas? Peace and blessings of Allah be upon all thread readers. I like the quote from that quran_light thread:

apparently before he saw the angel Gabriel and become a prophet, Muhammad was a 'spice trader' (frankinsence etc.)

The spice extends life. The spice expands consciousness.&From The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
[Chapter (14) sūrat ib'rāhīm (Abraham)(14:24:9)]: " kashajaratin (is) like a tree كَشَجَرَةٍ طَيِّبَةٍ "

Keep it up acacia heads!:d

 

[shanedudddy2]

Has anyone personally done an acacia victoriae extraction?
If so, what season was it performed? I am getting nothing from an extraction a week or 2 ago. Cheers.

 

[phyllode]

Hey shanedudddy did you check the Index on Page 1 like recommended?
On it it said p18 amongst other things.

 

[acacian]

thanks for this info nen and phyllode... you guys are encyclopaedias! really liking where this thread is going at the moment... seems pretty safe to say that the wisdom properties of the acacia have been known about and made use of for a long time... and who knows, maybe some day australians will be proud to call the wattle their national emblem for reasons other than aesthetic beauty... wattle that be like?

 

[shanedudddy2]

Yes, I did, but couldn't seen any mention of what season. *shrug* guess i`ll try again in a few months time

 

[rudder]

Yes, I did, but couldn't seen any mention of what season. *shrug* guess i`ll try again in a few months time

When was the last time there was substantial rain before you harvested the A. victoriae that you speak of?

 

[The Meddling Monk]

^Are you 100% sure of the victoriae ID? With seeds and pods etc.?
More importantly it was flowering (from your pics in ID thread) which seems to be one of the 'no go' times for alks.

Here's the Masonic use of the acacia (from Who is Allah?). Suspicious bunch of dudes they are!

 

[nen888]

^..yes very suspicious that mob thanks monk! And good point about the presumed (but not confirmed? ) victoriae being in flower..despite having my hopes up recently that mearnsii may prove the flowering=low alks theory wrong, it didn't.. i know that the successfully extracted victoriae my friend worked with was from somewhere in the flinders ranges..but, i would have had as many negative as positive test results over the years
..if one simply wants dmt there is more than enough info in this thread and the Nexus generally to find it!
Acacia research suits exactly that - research! No guarantees except a greater understanding and probably love of the plants.
..but it has it's rewards for the patient..incidentally, i know of no instance ever any time of year when confirmed acuminata has been a negative result..and only heard of a P.viridis (out of hundreds) which didn't have dmt in it once..it had nmt..
.

..from The Symbolism of Freemasonry

The acacia...was esteemed a sacred tree. It is the acacia vera of Tournefort, and the mimosa nilotica of Linnæus. It grew abundantly in the vicinity of Jerusalem, where it is still to be found, and is familiar to us all, in its modern uses at least, as the tree from which the gum arabic of commerce is obtained.

The acacia, which, in Scripture, is always called shittah and in the plural shittim...Isaiah, in recounting the promises of God's mercy to the Israelites on their return from the captivity, tells them, that, among other things, he will plant in the wilderness, for their relief and refreshment, the cedar, the acacia (or, as it is rendered in our common version, the shittah), the fir, and other trees.

the INDEX OF THREAD on p.1 has now been updated to page 45..

..i am really looking forward to what all you acacia-lovers come up with next!.. thank you all writers in the thread..

 

[acacian]

so doesn't really seem like I got anything from the mucronata I tested... theres a small amount of residue which I will bioassay soon. doesn't smell tryptamine like.. though it may well be active. when the base was added there was a small amount of precipitate

I wonder what kind of acacia that is in the masonic imagery?

 

[nen888]

^..oh acacian..the trees do love you i know that much! some of my best friend acacias are flowering now or soon, but i know i'll only be seeing them to gather the odd seed over the next little while..my tip for research at the moment..look for species which aren't flowering now..

ps. acacian re: mucronata var. longifolia..i have re-checked the tested form, which was btw grown from commercially sourced seed (= confirm ID), and it's flowers are pale-yellow, and about 2.5cm long..i.e. shorter than floribunda, longifolia, obtusifolia etc.. also, acacian, i believe the original plants were riparian in victoria..hope that helpful..
and as said previous post, acuminata is the most consistent species (flowers and all) i am aware of..
.

 

[acacian]

.. i just remembered there's a really interesting tree in the neighbourhood which is very similar to floribunda. almost identical phyllodes.. though instead of white rods it has white balls. might test that pretty soon too. I'll go grab a photo in a bit for i.d

 

[nen888]

^..always enthusiastic..:d that's one thing we nexians love about you acacian!
.
..i wrote:

acacias are flowering now or soon,
..look for species which aren't flowering now..

maybe i've spoken too soon..
wira wrote:

all of White's Acacia analyses were done on plants growing in New Zealand.
Regarding alkaloids during flowering, White often found reasonably high levels of alkaloids in the flowers, and while perhaps reduced, content in stems was sometimes still reasonable (less so in phyllodes).

phyllode wrote p43:

Interesting about the alkaloids in flowers. Maybe that's where they migrate to?
I've found that there's A Lot less in the phyllodes during flowering

& p44:

And looks like that owl might eat the flowers. What do you think?

..i have to admit that i've never tested the flowers! so, that has given me something to think about..
as for the owl..i dunno, owls are usually not herbivorous, but i'd say it'd eat the insects which do..and certainly the odd toad of light! ..good night vision i imagine..
..so no, i don't know..are there alkaloids in the flowers?..i only know the sweetness of the nectar..
.

ps. there are flavonoids in the flowers..
the desert owl's quite small too, if you think about it..thanks for pic
and on the ghost dance - note the 'figure' in the painting is the same as in the photo below it, only facing away..respect to mezquitamal eternal..
@
..

below, the beautiful a. heterochroa flowers, restricted in natural range, but available through nursuries..no tests..and some other peaceful and thoughtful looking ones..good growing tips in Acacia 8 Worldwide Thread soon..!

 

[acacian]

hehe thanks nen I just wish there were more people into it here! no doubt there are.. but I have not met them...... I know of one actually.. you know who you are

witnessed a really interesting reaction before while extracting from some fallen phleb phyllodes... I added 6g sodium hydroxide and it cloudded up like crazy.. more than I've ever seen with any previous precipitation. though it didn't dissapear as it usually does moments after.. it just sunk to the bottom and remained there even after mixing the solution. I checked the ph and It had only reached 10.. what do you think this means? it seems all the dmt still precipitated out.. there was a huge layer sitting at the bottom which I assume the solvent would still have pulled just fine, but I wasn't sure, so I added a little more base. It dissapeared after that. could there have maybe been another alkaloid in there that didn't like the higher ph? Do you think it is better for the precipitation to stay visible or not?

I kinda wish I extracted it at the low ph would have been interesting to see how it came out. anyways.. the amount of precipitation that came out with the lower ph was amazing.. I'd never seen anything like it.

 

[Seldom]

any news on the rubida mate? by the way... i'm going to be in town very soon broseph we should definitely go bushwalking.

no dice with rubida .. i'll be around though, will be good to catch up


attached is an extract obtained using the Nomen testing method quoted before + 2 fairly simple clean up stages. a bit 'greasy' but still stable at room temp.

i'm not going to say which, but it came from one of those listed in this Trying to improve Acacia information - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus post

 

[acacian]

great work Seldom! Have you bioassayed yet?

 

[acacian]

so here's the floribunda-like tree with the ball phyllodes. they looked a lot whiter when I saw them but the sun gave the whole photo a yellow tinge... and smelt divine. as well as below a tree I first suspected to be floribunda, then mucronata subs. longifolia.. now I'm not sure. both photos were taken back around august or september. I will get another of the first tree as soon as my housemate gets up... (i dont have my own camera )

nen.. is it just me.. or does the tree in the last 2 photos have a 'tryptamine look' to it?

 

[nen888]

^..the first one looks amazing! i'll have a think about what it could be..the bottom one..the flowers look too long, large and 'open' to be A. mucronata var. longifolia..
.
..i'll throw in some tree philosophy while everyone except acacian and Seldom(see below)'s being so quiet..
it does have to do with trying to improve acacia information..

..information..
as i mentioned early in the thread, i spent a lot of time pondering information theory before starting this thread..
..what is this thread?..i don't really know.., it's 'organic' in growth pattern, and yet exists in 'reality' in binary arrangements of electrons..only future analysts may have a better idea..but amongst things it's a Dialogue..a discourse..a form often favoured by the ancient Greek philosophers to express ideas..often dualistic operations are required to 'solve' problems..(where i think western philosophy went wrong is in not dealing with paradoxes) ..nen888 tends to wrtite in a form like nen 'talks', as do others in such Forums..yeah,,just like in old Athens where you had a sanctioned place to publicly express and co-develop ideas..the Forum Φόρουμ αρχαία..the ancient greeks had another word other than entheogen which we don't have a word for today..the Logos Λογότυπα (beloved of Terence)..the 'word'/ the'voice'..a voice which spoke 'inside the head'....
from "The Information" by James Gleick [2011] p35-36

The transcription of Homer converted this great poetry into a new medium and made of it something unplanned…
…it was the trigger for a wholesale, irreversible change in the human psyche...

Plato, 'looking back on the oral culture that still surrounded him...' said writing would affect people.."They have no vivid pattern in their souls "

And what vivid pattern was that? …the word was thinking. This was the discovery, not just of the self, but of the thinking self - in effect, the true beginning of consciousness.

...[western] 'Logic descended from the written word, in Greece, as well as India and China.'

so the Nexus is more like oral tradition stored as word and image..a solution to Socrates & Plato's dilemma..
also, a hard-copy book, while much nicer to read than a screen, has limitations..how many copies can be printed..? they age with oxidation..floods and fires..the way information in the electro-magnetic forum now is multiply backed up and transmitted via satellites through near space, it is less likely to be lost than a book..the meddling monk's example of the great library of Alexandria being a prime example..of course, such data can be printed onto the physical page, or there's that new 'virtual paper' stuff now..
now a philosophical question..a bit like 'why do some plants contain dmt?'..
..where do the forms that nature adopts come from?..the 'masks of 'god'' ..there is a surrealistic twilight border-zone between physics and chemistry..and that is Why exactly (or mathematically rather) do crystals take the specific forms they do..why different atoms join together is known, but the shape? the aesthetically pleasing aspect..no one really knows..if these patterns are governed by universal law, then we would expect to find similar forms around the universe.nitrogen based proteins..carbon based storage…legume trees..snowflakes..bipedal walking forms too..some of the energy to drive all this information processing and storage are suns..nuclear furnaces..as the oldest traditions on the earth say: "we come from the stars.."
..and Hieroglyphs constitute a different form of language, hence logic and consciousness..and then there's Geometrics.. and art..

..help cycle the information onwards to the stars..! interact..be not just a stander by at the forum..
below, image of information storage, processing, and retrieval on a theoretical cosmic scale..haha..now why do YOU read this thread..?

below: fig.1

Relief of an Acacia Tree Shading Water Jars with Drinking Cups
Period: Middle Kingdom
Dynasty: Dynasty 11
Reign: reign of Mentuhotep II, early
Date: ca. 2051–2030 B.C.
Geography: Egypt, Upper Egypt; Thebes, Deir el-Bahri, Tomb of Neferu

In this picturesque image of water jars beneath an acacia tree, each jar for ready use topped by a drinking cup, there may be hidden allusions to beliefs about the afterlife. In the Old Kingdom, an institution called “the acacia house” was maintained at the solar cult site of Heliopolis (near present day Cairo). To this institution belonged a group of women who served as mourners and ritual dancers at each pharaoh’s funeral. Queen Neferu may have been a member of Mentuhotep II’s acacia house.

>fig.2: "acacia trees' (generic name) in Egyptian hieroglyphs..
>fig3: image of information storage, processing, and retrieval..

 

[nen888]

..and looking good Seldom! ! fantastic work..looks a little exotic and golden which is good..bioassays..?

 

[acacian]

..where do the forms that nature adopts come from?..the 'masks of 'god'' ..there is a surrealistic twilight border-zone between physics and chemistry..and that is Why exactly (or mathematically rather) do crystals take the specific forms they do..why different atoms join together is known, but the shape? the aesthetically pleasing aspect..no one really knows..if these patterns are governed by universal law, then we would expect to find similar forms around the universe.nitrogen based proteins..carbon based storage…legume trees..snowflakes..bipedal walking forms too..some of the energy to drive all this information processing and storage are suns..nuclear furnaces..as the oldest traditions on the earth say: "we come from the stars.."
..and Hieroglyphs constitute a different form of language, hence logic and consciousness..and then there's Geometrics..

beautifully said! ...and yeah there does seem to be this consistent template that nature builds on, a mysterious principle that perhaps doesn't originate on a physical level. I find it alarming that people dismiss these laws of nature and where they may come from so readily! Its as if people think that because something can be measured physically that there is nothing more to it.. no possible intention behind its existence...which makes very little sense to me, because even if moving to the creation paradigm... that creation would still be measurable physically wouldn't it?

I hear so many people throw the word logic around when criticising notions of consciousness being the "architect" of reality, but even to the laymen, when looking at the beauty and awe inspiring layers to nature, it does seem like there is a force of some kind trying to express itself (and doing a bloody good job!) through matter. creating a realm for itself to explore from all angles..

everything we "know" about reality, is still known/learnt by an observer.. there is no getting behind consciousness no matter how hard we try