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"UFO's" drug culture, and the occult
- Thread starter Gondrio
- Start date
Interesting thread!
If I may, heres a couple of links which some Nexians may find interesting.
On the Islamic concept of Why Evil exists:
The Islamic position on Aliens/UFOs:
www.alien-ufos.com
If I may, heres a couple of links which some Nexians may find interesting.
On the Islamic concept of Why Evil exists:
The Islamic position on Aliens/UFOs:
Aliens in Islam
Sura 21:30 asks,"Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation),before we clove them asunder?..." and the continues about universe: And it is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power;and,verily,it is We who are steadily...
www.alien-ufos.com
Just because I don't know what something is, does that mean I must hate it? I try to understand it, to view it with an open mind and an open heart. Hatred and fear or rather the identification with hatred and fear are the assassins of my connection to God.
Righteousness is something I, as an anti-absolutist, can't go by. I do not believe in anything absolute beside existence itself. There is no absolute right or wrong (is this a performative paradox?), neither in how to love God nor how to live in God etc. So righteousness just seems (to me) like something someone who is very sure of himself (or whatever dogma he is following) would go by. Doesn't mean it has anything to do with goodness.
I try to live by a few principles: growth, love, compassion, openness. This seems to be right for me. And this gives me the most access to what I experience as God.
much love
Righteousness is something I, as an anti-absolutist, can't go by. I do not believe in anything absolute beside existence itself. There is no absolute right or wrong (is this a performative paradox?), neither in how to love God nor how to live in God etc. So righteousness just seems (to me) like something someone who is very sure of himself (or whatever dogma he is following) would go by. Doesn't mean it has anything to do with goodness.
I try to live by a few principles: growth, love, compassion, openness. This seems to be right for me. And this gives me the most access to what I experience as God.
much love
Gondrio
Rising Star
Enoon said:
Absolutely it is!
You must distinguish subjective opinions about values from objectively true values. Just as you distinguish subjective opinions about God, or about life after death, or about happiness, or about numbers, or about beauty, just to take 5 other non-empirical things. It may be difficult, or even impossible, to prove these things, or to attain certainty about them, or even to know them at all. But that does not mean they are unreal. Even if these things could not be known, it does not follow that they are unreal. And even if they could not be known with certainty, it does not follow that they could not be known at all by right opinion. And even if they could not be proved, it does not follow that they could not be known with certainty. And even if they could not be proved by the scientific method, it does not follow that they cannot be proved at all. They could be real, even if unknown; known, even if not certainly known; certainly known, even if not proved; and proved, even if not scientifically proved. The basic equivocation in the cultural relativist's argument is between principles/values and value opinions. You and I may have different opinions about what is morally valuable, just as we may have different opinions about what happens after death. But this does not entail the conclusion that what is really right in your mind is really wrong in another, any more than different opinions about life after death entails the conclusion that different things really happen after death, depending on cultural beliefs. Just because I may believe there is no Hell does not prove that there is none and that I will not go there. If it did, a simple and infallible way of salvation would be simply to stop believing in Hell. Similarly, just because a good Nazi thinks genocide is right does not prove it is, unless there is nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so. But that is your conclusion. Nor can it also be your premise without begging the question. It presupposes the very moral relativism it is supposed to prove.
Not quite sure about that one. how is saying that I do not believe that there is any absolute right or wrong implying that a Nazi can prove he is right by thinking it so... the word proof has nothing to do with it. In fact, it seems to me, that in a world where nothing is either right or wrong but thinking makes it so, nothing can be truly proven (or at least those things that could be categorized as right or wrong) but ppl can only be convinced of something. This is not the same thing as proving. Your example means only that the Nazi thinks he is right.
Once again, I find Boolean logic does not quite apply to these matters, so looking for ways to apply it nonetheless by finding other words, i.e. right/wrong -> true/false -> proveable/nonproveable etc. doesn't really help. Is there no way to let go of these concepts?
Once again, I find Boolean logic does not quite apply to these matters, so looking for ways to apply it nonetheless by finding other words, i.e. right/wrong -> true/false -> proveable/nonproveable etc. doesn't really help. Is there no way to let go of these concepts?
Gondrio said:
This sounds like saying one must distinguish subjective opinions on how things work from objectively true physical laws of the universe.
The laws of the universe have the same kind of "rigidity" as these values you attribute to God. From this it may follow that God is some kind of a machine (not in a pejorative sense) who is bound by his own absolute qualities. Perhaps there are only a few possible patterns these qualities can be arranged in so that the world doesn't explode into bits. That may be the reason for this extreme "toughness" we perceive in God's ways.
I sometimes think that the mission of Jesus Christ was to change a previous pattern of God (as expressed in the Old Testament) to a new, evolved pattern, with the death on the cross operating as some kind of spiritual switch that started a new way of being for both God and creation. Maybe God is knowingly or unknowingly experimenting with ways to advance itself into patterns which cause less suffering for the world, like a self-optimizing machine.
I like the ideacellux said:
I do believe God is evolving with us, even if it is only in so far as our perception of God evolves. And perception, as we understand from physics, is always an interaction. The German term for this is 'Wechselwirkung' which means literally translated reciprocal effect. Quantum entities (particle/wave units) are changed by perception or rather by the interaction that is perception, but so is the detection apparatus/perceiver. I believe in a holographic universe and that in that sense, if we project this behavior upwards, God would also be changed by our perception. If our perception of God grows then God is transformed more, and with that, so are we.
In that sense though, perhaps we are all on a mission by God for God, to expand our consciousness of God... etc.
(btw, I'm not saying this is true... please understand I do not believe in absolute truths. I simply like this idea and it resonates within me.)
Gondrio
Rising Star
cellux said:
Well, according to the Bible, God does not change in either the Old or New testament. One of the implications of the name I AM WHO I AM is that God does not change. In Malachi 3:6 God says, "I Yahweh do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed." Within the name Yahweh is the affirmation I AM WHO I AM. But if who God is is not determined by any forces outside himself, then he is not subject to the changes we are. People change their mind because of unforeseen circumstances or weak resolution. God foresees all circumstances and has no weaknesses. Nothing in all creation takes him off guard and backs him into a corner where he might have to act out of character or compromise his integrity.
He is who he is, and therefore, as James says, "With him there is no variation or shadow due to change" (James 1:17). He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
So, the greatest question in both the Old and New testament is: How can God be just, and yet the savior of sinners? How Can can God fulfill all His threatenings throughout the Old testament, , and yet forgive sin? If that problem had been left to angels and men, they could have never worked it out throughout eternity. But God has solved it through freely delivering up His own Son. In the glorious sacrifice of Jesus we see the justice of God magnified, as He laid our sin on Him, who had become one with His chosen, and the sword of God awoke upon His Son. He was not taken arbitrarily to be a victim, but He was a voluntary sufferer, His relationship amounted to covenant oneness with His people.
Just as God brought the Israelites out of Egypt, so did he also bring his people out of the domain of slavery to sin, and lead them through the wilderness of trial. The God of the OT has not changed. We are the ones who change.
Gondrio said:
All it requires is not believing; not letting ONE belief displace all others. And admitting that one does not KNOW... but one can speculate and muse about things. Anyway, the map is not the territory, our maps to the universe are not the universe, our models of explanation are just symbols superimposed on existence, and in a sense they are all interchangeable if they are complex enough - like every universal turing machine emulates every other... maybe
or it's far stranger still...
Love
Gondrio
Rising Star
Enoon said:
Your belief that "one does not KNOW" displaces all the others, and becomes an absolute truth.
The presupposition that there is no absolute truth, since it is either absolutely true that there is no absolute truth, or it is only relatively true that there is no absolute truth, in either case is self-defeating.
So Gondrio, no offense but do you have anything to say that doesn't involve someone else's words, or bible quotes?
We can all read the bible if we want to (a lot already have)...we don't really need you to copy/paste it, piece by piece into this forum.
A forum about DMT & Entheogens & attempting to understand our experiences with them & supporting each other...not a forum to try & convince people of your particular religion's righteousness.
How about getting involved with some of the other threads from other members...without mentioning your religious bend.
You & your thoughts & feelings are in there somewhere, right?
What is your experience/interest with DMT, or psychedelics in general?
What is your interest with DMT-Nexus?
WS
We can all read the bible if we want to (a lot already have)...we don't really need you to copy/paste it, piece by piece into this forum.
A forum about DMT & Entheogens & attempting to understand our experiences with them & supporting each other...not a forum to try & convince people of your particular religion's righteousness.
How about getting involved with some of the other threads from other members...without mentioning your religious bend.
You & your thoughts & feelings are in there somewhere, right?
What is your experience/interest with DMT, or psychedelics in general?
What is your interest with DMT-Nexus?
WS
tryptographer
tryptamine photographer
^ Good points WS!
Gondrio, are you planning to actually use DMT to explore your consciousness, or would you consider this sinful?
Gondrio, are you planning to actually use DMT to explore your consciousness, or would you consider this sinful?
I think that much of what you have to say does not make sense from a(ny) non-christian perspective. Your christian perspective seems potentially dangerous to me. Any dogmatic approach seems potentially dangerous to me.
'The bible is the word of god'
I dont think one can use that to improve humanity, so we can live in peace and harmony. I think the chance it will work is very small. Also i think the chance that it wont work, and as a result we kill each other, is very big. I mean, look at the history....
So im sorry for the interruption but if you dont mind... what is your intention exactly?
'The bible is the word of god'
I dont think one can use that to improve humanity, so we can live in peace and harmony. I think the chance it will work is very small. Also i think the chance that it wont work, and as a result we kill each other, is very big. I mean, look at the history....
So im sorry for the interruption but if you dont mind... what is your intention exactly?
Gondrio
Rising Star
Virola78 said:
The Bible does not attempt to benefit humanity. Rather, its purpose is to SAVE humanity from the foretold coming destruction upon the cursed creation. Regardless though, prior to the advent of Christianity in Europe, our ancestors were running around naked, painting themselves blue, and eating one another! It is Christianity which brings us the ability to think, logically.
But with all our accumulated knowledge, and technological advancements throughout the history of mankind... Take everything, and you still have one prodigious problem that has plagued humanity since our very existence. Its called... DEATH. What will you have gained in all of your lifetime, when EVERYTHING is taken from you in the blink of an eye? By all means, continue in your nonchalant and superficial fashion of living. Only let me whisper this in your ear, “What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:36)
I understand that by saying these things I come off as a radical fundamentalist (Though Jesus was the most radical of them all). Please know that it is not my ultimate aim to offend, but rather, to warn. While my motives are probably tainted with self-conceit here and there, I believe there is much love in what I'm imposing. Yes, its demeaning! But wouldn't it be loving for the doctor to tell his patient of the cancerous tumor in his body, even though it would cause much heartache for that patient, and disruption of his agenda? similarly would the doctor not also be doing the patient a favor beyond measure to provide a referential cure?
"Regardless though, prior to the advent of Christianity in Europe, our ancestors were running around naked, painting themselves blue, and eating one another! It is Christianity which brings us the ability to think, logically."
It would be great if you could come here with some factual information..since that is NOT factual. Thats bullshit.
I have no desire to engage in this discussion, like I said before..but some of the claims you make are rediculous and hence you sound not credible at all.
It would be great if you could come here with some factual information..since that is NOT factual. Thats bullshit.
I have no desire to engage in this discussion, like I said before..but some of the claims you make are rediculous and hence you sound not credible at all.
^who knows..this is one of the most rediculus threads ive seen.
umm, gondrio, have you read any of the messed up verses in the bible?
Or done psychedelics?
why are you here??
nope
Or done psychedelics?
why are you here??
gammagore said:
nope