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Using Dmt to change the world
- Thread starter FutureMan
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"ninja-shamens"... Nice.
So let's say we agree that it's best to only talk to people whom are open to psychedelic exploration, what do we tell such people? I can't imagine any verbal description doing the experience justice. Sometimes I feel like it's irresponsible to try to say anything about what the experience in particular is like because nothing I could say would really prepare a person for it. Recently I believe that the only appropriate recommendation would have to be in the form of a riddle; Some sort of calculated statement that acts to attracts only the most interested and psychedelically inclined individuals while weeding out the rest. I heard a recording of Terrance Mckenna once in which he aptly declared that the best way to spread psychedelic ideals is through art, which I think is an incredibly ingenious idea and, if you look at the progression of modern art of all mediums, it really points back to what somebody said earlier in this thread (or possibly another one) about society becoming more susceptible to psychedelic concepts.
I'm experiencing a lot of cognitive dissonance about this issue, apparently, because after reading through this thread a little more, I somehow disagree with the attitude of my previous post.
One of the things that I find most puzzling about LSD is that different people experience such different things while under its influence. Back in the day when I held signs in public, I think I had the impression that LSD would be for anybody what it is for me (a sacrament), but that was a naive view.
So let's say we agree that it's best to only talk to people whom are open to psychedelic exploration, what do we tell such people? I can't imagine any verbal description doing the experience justice. Sometimes I feel like it's irresponsible to try to say anything about what the experience in particular is like because nothing I could say would really prepare a person for it. Recently I believe that the only appropriate recommendation would have to be in the form of a riddle; Some sort of calculated statement that acts to attracts only the most interested and psychedelically inclined individuals while weeding out the rest. I heard a recording of Terrance Mckenna once in which he aptly declared that the best way to spread psychedelic ideals is through art, which I think is an incredibly ingenious idea and, if you look at the progression of modern art of all mediums, it really points back to what somebody said earlier in this thread (or possibly another one) about society becoming more susceptible to psychedelic concepts.
I'm experiencing a lot of cognitive dissonance about this issue, apparently, because after reading through this thread a little more, I somehow disagree with the attitude of my previous post.
One of the things that I find most puzzling about LSD is that different people experience such different things while under its influence. Back in the day when I held signs in public, I think I had the impression that LSD would be for anybody what it is for me (a sacrament), but that was a naive view.
FutureMan said:
That's a nice sentiment.
However, I feel that people will "awaken" if or when they are ready, irregardless of anything you or anyone else does to encourage, or even DIScourage it. Change is personal.
If you want to "change the world", please don't try to do it with chemicals. Spread smiles, kindness, and selflessness.
FutureMan
Trust only what you know, Know nothing for certain
Xaarov said:
The spreading of psychedelics is not the sole, or now even the main, purpose of my mission. As I have stated a few times now, the overall goal is simply to increase the overall sum total of positivity in the world. Envision existence as an equation. Your every action adds to this equation, whether it be negatively or positively. Do not mistake what i propose as just a new but similar system with different rulers and ideals, requiring all to live in a certain prescribed way for any hope of success in mainstream society. I don't want to draw out maps and establish specific regulations and requirements for this change, and will in fact oppose any such measures.For as others have said it is a Journey that must be undertaken of one's own volition, and not forced upon anyone. i want to establish this order to act as a lighthouse, simply hinting at many possible paths but favoring none, Simply providing some direction for those who seek or need it. We need badly gurus teachers and shamen to help others along their own paths, as opposed to politicians and policemen who's interest lies not in the good of the general public, but in furthering the agenda of those in power who wish things to remain as they are
We are each immensely powerful in our own right, and each have a unique perspective and set of skills. Let us all use what we have to help one another. Defend the defenseless.
Help those in need of help. All anyone can ask is that you use what you have to accomplish what you can.
Promote peace and positivity in all things. Infinite love to all
You can spread love and light without psychedelics, I understand where you're coming from but it seems you haven't thought about it critically. Psychedelics have the ability to enable change in some individuals, but some treat the psychedelic experience as purely recreational, and others find the experiences mentally over bearing, even after repeated experiments with them. They aren't for everybody, there has to be a more consistent way of changing the world than metabolizing drugs.
Korey said:
^^Wise words.
As the member called Pandora has mentioned, in another thread, the psychedelics can be a catalyst for change- and this, I think, is as far as it goes.
I reckon the best way to change the world (ie incresing positivity and promoting peaceful co-existence) is to change oneself such that the example you present attracts others towards you and your approach.
In some ways, the premise of this thread is a reflection of the modern age, where a short-cut or 'quick-fix' is sought, even if it is with the best of intentions.The psychedelic experience whilst undoubtedly demanding in some respects requires less in the way of sustained effort than effecting the change in oneself through other means. The kind of change which requires repeated chemical exposure to be maintained has some parallels with the case of the disturbed psychotic, who needs chemical exposure regularly to keep them 'on track'; this, IMO, is not befitting for a sentient species like homo sapiens which, generally speaking, has the capacity to rectify itself without chemicals, but only if its prepared to expend a significant amount of effort.
The use of psychedelics by the majority of the populace will undoubtedly increase the number of casualties; this makes such an approach less than adequate, certainly when compared to the methodology of putting in some serious effort.We have become lazy as a species.
dmt can't just change the world. we need to be the change and let people see that change in us. only then will more people start realising its true nature and how it can be used for good
SoulCrushingBass
Keeper of the spice
As had been stated, I have been right where you are. If only everyone knew. The general world is not ready. They are ignorant, dogmatic, and downright brainwashed. The path to the light is a narrow one.
I hope for the singularity Terence McKenna dreamt of.
All I can say is "pass the buck", and hope those who you enlighten tread with delicalte feet and do the same. This is not an easy process as it is an idea. We must be discrete. The only indiscretion all can share is love and open hearts, actions speak volumes compared to ideas and words.
The last thing the rest of us want is a martyr like Tim Leary to set us back another 60 years, god forbid. This is NOT Sparta.
I hope for the singularity Terence McKenna dreamt of.
All I can say is "pass the buck", and hope those who you enlighten tread with delicalte feet and do the same. This is not an easy process as it is an idea. We must be discrete. The only indiscretion all can share is love and open hearts, actions speak volumes compared to ideas and words.
The last thing the rest of us want is a martyr like Tim Leary to set us back another 60 years, god forbid. This is NOT Sparta.
Bud Shizzler
Rising Star
When I talk to people that are not completely shut off to these 'ideas', i often imagine the metaphor of a dark forrest, and you try to convince someone to go with you, because unbelievable wonders lie just behind those first dark trees, most people will simply not want to go. Or Plato. The conclusion is to talk to people about it, not in a glorifying way, and those who are interested may come back to you.
On the other hand, this might be exactly what the western culture needs to assist getting rid of the Market Logic and mindless Consumerism. I feel that many people i'm surrounded with do feel a great urge for change, as do i. My generation of course is already mostly tolerant (counting out anyone that believes tv). We are, somehow just a yet supressed group too. But the cultural view is already shifting and thats where we can work, putting sand grains into a gear, slowly. The capitalist ideals are mostly exposed as hollow by today as financial markets strangle whole countries and the IMF restructures the first world now as it did with the third. As the 'third world' emerges quickly it is not dependant of those institutions and if they loose their own ground, the west, the fragility of the current financial system manifests itself. Like in the end of fight club *dream*
Yet more people realize that materialism, consumerism, does not make you happy at all, more likely more dependent. This is why there is plenty of soil to plant our ideas for a more rational spiritualism as a need in the soul.
Considering we are actually in a war that we did not start, we could learn from the cannabis-legalization movement in the US. They organized ill people that openly testified for their improved situation an health benefits. We could to the same, not as a mean of propaganda, but as to de-demonize the subject as a whole at first, so people don't think of crazy persons doing stupid stuff when they hear or read about psychedelics. I think the mindset of the most well-educated people allows for a slow slow introduction of a psychedelic approach as a way to self-transform or heal deeper wounds, or to get a new perspective. When I think of all the persons i know that are unhappy and unsatisfied with their lives...... BUT it would take a mind-shift first from their side, so they ask you for guidance
i'm sorry if my post is a bit chaotic, its late at night and subject is so friggin important to me too :?
On the other hand, this might be exactly what the western culture needs to assist getting rid of the Market Logic and mindless Consumerism. I feel that many people i'm surrounded with do feel a great urge for change, as do i. My generation of course is already mostly tolerant (counting out anyone that believes tv). We are, somehow just a yet supressed group too. But the cultural view is already shifting and thats where we can work, putting sand grains into a gear, slowly. The capitalist ideals are mostly exposed as hollow by today as financial markets strangle whole countries and the IMF restructures the first world now as it did with the third. As the 'third world' emerges quickly it is not dependant of those institutions and if they loose their own ground, the west, the fragility of the current financial system manifests itself. Like in the end of fight club *dream*
Yet more people realize that materialism, consumerism, does not make you happy at all, more likely more dependent. This is why there is plenty of soil to plant our ideas for a more rational spiritualism as a need in the soul.
Considering we are actually in a war that we did not start, we could learn from the cannabis-legalization movement in the US. They organized ill people that openly testified for their improved situation an health benefits. We could to the same, not as a mean of propaganda, but as to de-demonize the subject as a whole at first, so people don't think of crazy persons doing stupid stuff when they hear or read about psychedelics. I think the mindset of the most well-educated people allows for a slow slow introduction of a psychedelic approach as a way to self-transform or heal deeper wounds, or to get a new perspective. When I think of all the persons i know that are unhappy and unsatisfied with their lives...... BUT it would take a mind-shift first from their side, so they ask you for guidance
i'm sorry if my post is a bit chaotic, its late at night and subject is so friggin important to me too :?
FutureMan
Trust only what you know, Know nothing for certain
Hello again all, my apologies for bumping this old thread, but I read an article on the Nexian that I felt deeply resonated with the spirit of this thread. The link is : Criminals and Researchers: Perspectives on the Necessity of Underground Research - The Nexian .
It is an article by Professer David Nichols extolling the virtues of illegal and by necessity underground research into the potential of certain psychedilic substances to affect positive change. In particular the possible benefits to emotional and spiritual health, a subject mainstream research hasesnt explored much as of yet.
It seems as if Prof. Nichols and I are of a very similar opinion. I was wondering if perhaps opinions here at the nexus have changed in the years since the discussion in this thread. Hope you are all doing well regardless. I will continue to spread the light and love to the best of my abilities, and hope, as Prof. Nichols does, that you will join me
It is an article by Professer David Nichols extolling the virtues of illegal and by necessity underground research into the potential of certain psychedilic substances to affect positive change. In particular the possible benefits to emotional and spiritual health, a subject mainstream research hasesnt explored much as of yet.
It seems as if Prof. Nichols and I are of a very similar opinion. I was wondering if perhaps opinions here at the nexus have changed in the years since the discussion in this thread. Hope you are all doing well regardless. I will continue to spread the light and love to the best of my abilities, and hope, as Prof. Nichols does, that you will join me
FutureMan, You mentioned your a Taoist? Have you heard the story that the 'Old Man' didn't ever say anything until he was departing his village to die in the Himalayas; and was forced to write down some teachings.
I personally never initiate the conversation of DMT/Hyperspace to anyone, & will hold back my knowledge as long as I can. I dare you to try the same?
Your say we "initiate" & "Need Peaceful Samurai," I get the feeling that you are on a bit of a mission and this will likely increase ones chances of being cut; leave it to Kali to slice ignorance.
Be a advocate of the light by being nice to everyone, guy pumping your gas & the girl cleaning your hotel; a secret agent Boddhisatva.
I personally never initiate the conversation of DMT/Hyperspace to anyone, & will hold back my knowledge as long as I can. I dare you to try the same?
Your say we "initiate" & "Need Peaceful Samurai," I get the feeling that you are on a bit of a mission and this will likely increase ones chances of being cut; leave it to Kali to slice ignorance.
Be a advocate of the light by being nice to everyone, guy pumping your gas & the girl cleaning your hotel; a secret agent Boddhisatva.
Personally, I feel that the most important, and most difficult to accomplish, task along the lines of "psycedelicacizing"(lol) or enlightening our societies is the process of learning to love oneself. Behind all of my b.s., all of my negative emotions and hurtful actions lies a lack of self-love, and I suspect that is universal among humans. It is a paradoxically painful process, the undertaking of learning rigorous self-love. The psychedelic path as I see it,.is one of love and whether one uses the substances or not really the point.
Another conundrum here is that it is a selfish act. When one begins to love oneself, they want the environment that they live in to be the best possible. Go to the home of a happy person, and you are unlikely to find it messy. Part of one's environment are the creatures that share it. These creatures must also enjoy a good environment if one is to live in the best possible world that they can create. Not only does one seek out a good world to live in, but they create it too. Where there is lack, it must be filled. Where there is excess, it must be culled. The selfish act of self-love makes these actions not only possible, but necessary.
Psychedelics play a huge part in my quest along these lines, but by "psychedelicacizing",.I do not mean dosing everyone. I have learned to put down self destructive actions and thinking (at least some) and taken off on this path as a result of the use of these substances, dmt in particular, but that is not the route for everyone. I admit I am a psychedelic prosyletizer, I can often be found perched on a soap-box extolling the virtues of the experience. I an working on a book recounting my experience of self-healing from PTSD,suicidal depression and addiction through the use of powerful substances like 5meo-dmt and n,n-dmt. But the words I write and speak fall upon ears that are already inclined to such a thing, I'm just reinforcing peoples thoughts, not establishing them.
I appreciate your feelings, future man, but psychs aren't for everyone. There is a wave of reason sweeping across America, at least, in regards to legitimizing psychedelics for therapy, and for rational drug policy in general. We are getting there, but in order to arrive, we must choose our battles carefully. This undertaking of convincing a society that's been at war with consciousness alteration for generations to change their thinking regarding drugs must be done very carefully. As pointed out earlier about good ol Tim Leary , and how the last thing we need is another guy like him, well, the last thing we need is another attempt to turn everyone on that turns into another Height-Ashbury. (don't get me wrong, I'm am old deadhead, but...) All we can do is live our lives as fully and responsibly as we can as be good examples so that others might see the good that psychs bring us, and there by pique interest.
Peace, love and light to all!
Another conundrum here is that it is a selfish act. When one begins to love oneself, they want the environment that they live in to be the best possible. Go to the home of a happy person, and you are unlikely to find it messy. Part of one's environment are the creatures that share it. These creatures must also enjoy a good environment if one is to live in the best possible world that they can create. Not only does one seek out a good world to live in, but they create it too. Where there is lack, it must be filled. Where there is excess, it must be culled. The selfish act of self-love makes these actions not only possible, but necessary.
Psychedelics play a huge part in my quest along these lines, but by "psychedelicacizing",.I do not mean dosing everyone. I have learned to put down self destructive actions and thinking (at least some) and taken off on this path as a result of the use of these substances, dmt in particular, but that is not the route for everyone. I admit I am a psychedelic prosyletizer, I can often be found perched on a soap-box extolling the virtues of the experience. I an working on a book recounting my experience of self-healing from PTSD,suicidal depression and addiction through the use of powerful substances like 5meo-dmt and n,n-dmt. But the words I write and speak fall upon ears that are already inclined to such a thing, I'm just reinforcing peoples thoughts, not establishing them.
I appreciate your feelings, future man, but psychs aren't for everyone. There is a wave of reason sweeping across America, at least, in regards to legitimizing psychedelics for therapy, and for rational drug policy in general. We are getting there, but in order to arrive, we must choose our battles carefully. This undertaking of convincing a society that's been at war with consciousness alteration for generations to change their thinking regarding drugs must be done very carefully. As pointed out earlier about good ol Tim Leary , and how the last thing we need is another guy like him, well, the last thing we need is another attempt to turn everyone on that turns into another Height-Ashbury. (don't get me wrong, I'm am old deadhead, but...) All we can do is live our lives as fully and responsibly as we can as be good examples so that others might see the good that psychs bring us, and there by pique interest.
Peace, love and light to all!
hardboiled
Rising Star
I think first and most important work while your occupying your physical body and reality is work on yourself. That is what you have to attend the most. You are the center of your experience. Chance for exploring, understanding, accepting...Loving. Paradoxically In return you will ˝know˝ others since we are all the same thing. As beautiful as life can be it can also be downright hard and murderous.
None of us is escaping the physical death. ˝Time˝ flays by so fast and before you know it your facing your final moment as unique spectacle of creation. What comes after that is left for interpretation.
Why am i saying all of this? Well lets just say that i am experiencing daily struggles of facing what is inside of me and how to be better human being ever since i have decided to ingest some fungi. In return that fungi exposed my ignorance and peeled some layers of my/our infinite self-onion.
This life of ours is special and beyond our comprehension (my opinion:grin: ) as humans and rightly so. This experience wouldn't be worth while if we knew what all this is about...
I was also thinking that everybody should partake in this experiences that i am having with my little fungi friends. Time has passed. I don't think like that anymore. Sounds cheesy but i think that everything is going as planed even the most insane and negative things that we as species are doing. Don't waste your energy on ˝fixing˝ others they got their own life to live and take care of. World is reflection. That being said i am not saying you shouldn't care about others. How you act and live your life has more potential to influence others than anything else. If entheogens come in life of others in my opinion is because they are ready and willing to peek behind the curtain on their own. I feel the reason why people try them is not that important as much as is the act of looking beyond. You have to consider that not everybody will have this ˝Divine˝ experience that will set them on ˝Right˝ path. Life is a tricky game or as a friend of mine wrote. ˝Life is the biggest mind fuck that we could get our self's into.˝
In general life is to short (on average 75 years in ˝developed˝ parts of the world). My motto: Don't be a c and try your best to care, love, help if you can/know how and you will play your part as it should be played since ultimately your playing this game with yourself:thumb_up:
None of us is escaping the physical death. ˝Time˝ flays by so fast and before you know it your facing your final moment as unique spectacle of creation. What comes after that is left for interpretation.Why am i saying all of this? Well lets just say that i am experiencing daily struggles of facing what is inside of me and how to be better human being ever since i have decided to ingest some fungi. In return that fungi exposed my ignorance and peeled some layers of my/our infinite self-onion.
This life of ours is special and beyond our comprehension (my opinion:grin: ) as humans and rightly so. This experience wouldn't be worth while if we knew what all this is about...I was also thinking that everybody should partake in this experiences that i am having with my little fungi friends. Time has passed. I don't think like that anymore. Sounds cheesy but i think that everything is going as planed even the most insane and negative things that we as species are doing. Don't waste your energy on ˝fixing˝ others they got their own life to live and take care of. World is reflection. That being said i am not saying you shouldn't care about others. How you act and live your life has more potential to influence others than anything else. If entheogens come in life of others in my opinion is because they are ready and willing to peek behind the curtain on their own. I feel the reason why people try them is not that important as much as is the act of looking beyond. You have to consider that not everybody will have this ˝Divine˝ experience that will set them on ˝Right˝ path. Life is a tricky game or as a friend of mine wrote. ˝Life is the biggest mind fuck that we could get our self's into.˝
In general life is to short (on average 75 years in ˝developed˝ parts of the world). My motto: Don't be a c and try your best to care, love, help if you can/know how and you will play your part as it should be played since ultimately your playing this game with yourself:thumb_up:
