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Vaping with e-cig juice

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Hey all,

I just ran into this thread and feel compelled to throw my own thoughts in on this here. I am an avid electronic cigarette smoker, and have been for about a year and a half or so. I have a pretty nice collection, and have tried every type from cartomizer/atomizer tanks to rebuildables with stainless steel wicks and home made coils. Literally, I have tried everything. At this point it's just for fun that I buy new devices.

Now I haven't tried vaping DMT yet as I haven't had any for quite a bit, but after reading through this thread and understanding some of the issues that those that have tried have reported I think I know of something that can help you all:

I hypothesize that "dripping" would be most successful with the use of a bridge-less atomizer. I think that building your own coil with silica wick or eco wool and kanthal wire would be even better for those of you who are savvy with rebuildable atomizers. I don't want to throw any brand names out because I'm new here and don't know to much about the rules yet, but dripping is definitely the most efficient way to vape being that you have to re apply liquid to the coil as it is drying out and there is little to no place for the liquid to go to other than be absorbed by the wick.

Some of you have described a burning throat hit when going for big hits, I believe this is mostly due to the wicking material not being able to wick juice up to the coil fast enough forcing the coil to get red hot. This problem is easily solve when you can build a really thick wick that holds more juice.

Just some thoughts. I should be done with an acrb extraction in a week or so, so as soon as it's done I will definitely try it out for myself and post what I end up with.
 
As far as plastics go, there are so many different types and varieties that unless you know the exact type used in your e-cig you can't know for sure how will react. This is the reason that certain chemicals are stored in specific plastics only. Petroleum products (napatha) can also weaken certain plastics and other materials used in certain types of o-rings and etc.

Glass and metal, preferably Ti or SS, are the best routes to go IMO, since most plastic e-cigs are.just rebranded Chinese crap made from god knows what. Hell, they poison their own people without giving a damn, what makes you think that they care about the quality of their product, especially when most of their factories only pass a dismal 80% of their total production run.

As far as the dabbing goes with that glass dome, yes it will spill from the cup unless you are using a very thick solution and unless it heats well enough to vape the liquid in the tank, I think single dose is going to be the way to go.

If you do go the glass route, may I suggest a non-traditional carrier like hash oil? People have gotten that down to a science for.e-cigs already, it is soluble in the same things as DMT making a uniform solution easy to make and it is also much denser when cool, thus eliminating any spillage.
 
JesusBuiltMyHotRod said:
As far as plastics go, there are so many different types and varieties that unless you know the exact type used in your e-cig you can't know for sure how will react.
Click to expand...

Yes, thats why I have moved away from any of the atomizers/cartomizers/clearomizers that use plastic. The protank 2 uses SS and pryex. The Kamry globe uses pyrex and ceramic.

JesusBuiltMyHotRod said:
As far as the dabbing goes with that glass dome, yes it will spill from the cup unless you are using a very thick solution and unless it heats well enough to vape the liquid in the tank, I think single dose is going to be the way to go.
Click to expand...

I agree, it seems the wick can hold quite a bit (I did some testing with VG). Although it is not for dabbing and the glass chamber is for the vapor not liquid. The white cup is where you place the material. It has a wick in the white ceramic piece that holds the material that is wrapped with a coil.

JesusBuiltMyHotRod said:
If you do go the glass route, may I suggest a non-traditional carrier like hash oil?
Click to expand...

The problem with that is not everyone smokes weed/hash/THC ect. I am trying to find a method that doesn't require the use of any other drugs. Straight DMT. The thing about the globe is it is designed for thick oils and wax. So i believe that the DMT goo that some people get from extractions might actually work very well with this device. which brings me to my next point...

MatriarchyOne said:
I hypothesize that "dripping" would be most successful with the use of a bridge-less atomizer.
Click to expand...

Thank you for chiming in. I was hypothesizing the same thing. The globe atomizer I have actually works very well as a drip atomizer so I have high hopes for this actually working out, as well as this doing away with the need for the solution to be wicked up into the coil like in a tank.
 
Interesting how that glass and ceramic piece works, its interesting to see how far.they have come with the e-cig tech. If you don't want to use hash oil, why not try another resinous plant material? There has to be another sweet/floral tasting resin that could work well if one chose (and it could work well for other simpler models). Aside from that, the goo would probably work extremely well as well as keep it dense enough when cool to prevent spillage and eliminate the need for a carrier.

Very interested to see what you come up with next.
 
anrchy said:
Thank you for chiming in. I was hypothesizing the same thing. The globe atomizer I have actually works very well as a drip atomizer so I have high hopes for this actually working out, as well as this doing away with the need for the solution to be wicked up into the coil like in a tank.
Click to expand...

Exactly, that dome will more than likely do the trick by getting juice directly to a heating element. I hope it works out for you.
 
JesusBuiltMyHotRod said:
Interesting how that glass and ceramic piece works, its interesting to see how far.they have come with the e-cig tech. If you don't want to use hash oil, why not try another resinous plant material? There has to be another sweet/floral tasting resin that could work well if one chose (and it could work well for other simpler models). Aside from that, the goo would probably work extremely well as well as keep it dense enough when cool to prevent spillage and eliminate the need for a carrier.

Very interested to see what you come up with next.
Click to expand...

Thats actually something I have been curious about. As there has not been a whole lot of testing done as far as safe materials to vaporize. One that doesnt have any effect on you that is also not harmful would prove most helpful.

Maybe you could assist in finding something? I also have a ton of USP grade glycerin which I think could work as its a little thicker.

MatriarchyOne said:
Exactly, that dome will more than likely do the trick by getting juice directly to a heating element. I hope it works out for you.
Click to expand...

We will see soon enough.
 
I actually bought one of these glass globe atomizers a couple months ago for this purpose but life got busy and I haven't found the time to try it out yet.

After not having much luck using regular tank atomizers, I thought dripping might be the way to go just to keep the possible wick issues out of the equation.

It's great seeing the progress that's been made in this thread and I'm feeling inspired to make time and start experimenting with this again. So I'll give it a shot as well and report my findings:)
 
Cotyledon said:
I actually bought one of these glass globe atomizers a couple months ago for this purpose but life got busy and I haven't found the time to try it out yet.

After not having much luck using regular tank atomizers, I thought dripping might be the way to go just to keep the possible wick issues out of the equation.

It's great seeing the progress that's been made in this thread and I'm feeling inspired to make time and start experimenting with this again. So I'll give it a shot as well and report my findings:)
Click to expand...

Awesome. Glad you can join us. The larger the research team the better.
 
Anrchy: Aside from hash oil I can't really think of anything else that would work but doesn't contain any psychoactives. If somebody felt like going through the pain of distilling some to retrieve the flavanoids and terpenes since they boil off at a lower temp, but I'd imagine it would end up as a liquid rather than resin. I don't know much about glycerin but vegetable glycerin should be safe and natural but it still has that weird harshness too it.

If you are interested in the resin idea though, I'd imagine that there has to be some other aromatic flower that you could produce an oleoresin or absolute from. Not much info out there as far as safe, smokable resins go.
 
I did a bit of thinking and thought, what about a reduced caapi extract, mixed with the spice and dissolved in a small amount of high proof ethanol to make it a little more fluid but still dense?

No spill, no other drugs (aside from the caapi alkaloids) and the ability to receive larger effects with smaller hits.
 
Welp, gave the new ecig a go. Tried for a little less concentrated solution, ~.5g mixed with 1ml PG, thought maybe it'd make things less harsh and it'd be fine to just take bigger hits. Not the way to go at all. The harshness was not nearly as diminished as the potency. And when I eventually over did it while trying to take another hit while coming up, the results were just as terrible as overdoing it with the more potent mixture. Ugh. Still recovering. Definitely gonna saturate the solution now. And based on how weak this mixture was I'd say my previous mixture was potentially even more concentrated than 1g:1ml, which I think is about where anrchy ended up. I almost want to add a little bit of ethanol back into the mix, cuz of how terrible this was compared to the time before the cartomizer broke, but I'll take it slow and see how far I can get w/ just PG.

Also, the menthol flavoring was super potent. One drop was too much.
 
I found that small steps are best cause some things are more difficult to reverse. This harshness has me very puzzled. I have yet to get the balls to make another attempt so I apologize for that.

Rifle how pure is the dmt you are using in the solution? I'm wondering if some how the plant fats and oils are contributing to the harshness.
 
I tried something a little different this morning. I've been thinking about the harshness issue and it seems to me there are a few possibilities
- The wick dries out and produces a "dry hit"
- The DMT in direct contact with the coil burns
- Or possibly something to do with the PG?

So I would think that we could expect a nice smooth vape if we could sufficiently heat freebase (evenly and controlled) in a ceramic cup. After all at that point it would just be DMT + heat right? So I tried modifying a rebuildable Smoktech atomizer to do this.

The basic construction:
- I took a 1/4" diameter ceramic rod & cut it to approx 1/2" in length.
- Then drilled a hole most of the way down through the center to make a cup to hold the goodies.
- Then coiled about about 4.5 ohms worth of kanthal wire (about 3 inches) tightly around the outside of the ceramic "cup" and attached the ends to the posts of the atomizer.

So the idea is that the coil heats the ceramic from the outside and the ceramic heats up nice and evenly to (hopefully) vape whatever is inside the ceramic cup.

I gave it a try and it works somewhat but still needs to be tweaked. At first I tried it with 6 ohms worth of kanthal wire and it didn't produce enough heat (even with my Vamo V2 set to 15W). Then I cut it down to about 4.5 ohms and tried it with 15W again, the wire glowed and after about 15 seconds or so, it did vaporize the spice pretty much all at once but it seems 15W was too much and burnt it. The vapor was was very harsh and I stopped inhaling almost as soon as it hit my throat because of that. So I only got mild effects, but effects none the less.

That was all I had time for so I'll try again soon with lower wattages. Hopefully I'll find a sweet spot where it works and isn't harsh. We'll see!

I'll post some pictures of the atomizer and ceramic cup thing that I'm talking about later.

Also, anyone know anything about the safety of different types of ceramics? I used a glass-mica (Macor) ceramic. This sounded like a better choice than some of the other options I had. Here's the MSDS sheet for it. It seems that most of the hazards are related to the dust created by machining it.
 
Cotyledon said:
I tried something a little different this morning. I've been thinking about the harshness issue and it seems to me there are a few possibilities
- The wick dries out and produces a "dry hit"
- The DMT in direct contact with the coil burns
- Or possibly something to do with the PG?

So I would think that we could expect a nice smooth vape if we could sufficiently heat freebase (evenly and controlled) in a ceramic cup. After all at that point it would just be DMT + heat right? So I tried modifying a rebuildable Smoktech atomizer to do this.

The basic construction:
- I took a 1/4" diameter ceramic rod & cut it to approx 1/2" in length.
- Then drilled a hole most of the way down through the center to make a cup to hold the goodies.
- Then coiled about about 4.5 ohms worth of kanthal wire (about 3 inches) tightly around the outside of the ceramic "cup" and attached the ends to the posts of the atomizer.

So the idea is that the coil heats the ceramic from the outside and the ceramic heats up nice and evenly to (hopefully) vape whatever is inside the ceramic cup.

I gave it a try and it works somewhat but still needs to be tweaked. At first I tried it with 6 ohms worth of kanthal wire and it didn't produce enough heat (even with my Vamo V2 set to 15W). Then I cut it down to about 4.5 ohms and tried it with 15W again, the wire glowed and after about 15 seconds or so, it did vaporize the spice pretty much all at once but it seems 15W was too much and burnt it. The vapor was was very harsh and I stopped inhaling almost as soon as it hit my throat because of that. So I only got mild effects, but effects none the less.

That was all I had time for so I'll try again soon with lower wattages. Hopefully I'll find a sweet spot where it works and isn't harsh. We'll see!

I'll post some pictures of the atomizer and ceramic cup thing that I'm talking about later.

Also, anyone know anything about the safety of different types of ceramics? I used a glass-mica (Macor) ceramic. This sounded like a better choice than some of the other options I had. Here's the MSDS sheet for it. It seems that most of the hazards are related to the dust created by machining it.
Click to expand...

The only issue I have with this, is that this method vaporizes DMT using conduction rather than convection. Although I am also curious as to how in my case it is ACTUALLY being done. Either way, since you seem very capable. Would it be possible to do the same thing except build the atomizer in a way that the coil is below the ceramic cup, the ceramic cup has holes in the bottom, all so that the heat passes through the DMT vaporizing it through convection?

The wick style is interesting but I'm wondering what exactly is happening. Is the wick heated causing the solution to vaporize out of it making it conduction? Or is the air passing through making it more of a conduction/convection hybrid?

- The wick dries out and produces a "dry hit"
- The DMT in direct contact with the coil burns
- Or possibly something to do with the PG?
Click to expand...

I want to say that the harshness is definitely not the same as what I have experienced when inhaling burnt DMT. I could be wrong but it def doesn't have any of the same characteristics. The throat sensation is identical to what you get from a dry hit. To me it isn't the same. Also there are none of the normal mouth sensations that you get from inhaling burnt DMT, which is prevalent when using a small meth pipe while burning DMT. Tingly tongue and mouth, almost like little needles. Those are not present.

It's possible that A, the solution is thicker in some way that doesn't allow it to rewick up towards the coil fast enough while vaporizing. And B the solution is vaporizing faster than normal due to the high concentration of DMT. This is all just hypothetical though.
 
The only issue I have with this, is that this method vaporizes DMT using conduction rather than convection. Although I am also curious as to how in my case it is ACTUALLY being done
Click to expand...

A good point, and I've often wondered how exactly vaporization happens via the normal wick & coil method as well. My guess is that it would be considered conduction too.

Would it be possible to do the same thing except build the atomizer in a way that the coil is below the ceramic cup, the ceramic cup has holes in the bottom, all so that the heat passes through the DMT vaporizing it through convection?
Click to expand...

Good idea, it seems like it should be possible. My biggest concern is that the liquified DMT would run out the holes in the bottom. But if there were a few layers of screens, choreboy, or porous ceramic between the heating element and goodies, that should prevent most of that

I really think it should be possible to create a mini convection style atomizer. I burnt my finger on the glass tube that I had surrounding the coil/ceramic cup. So it does produce a good bit of heat inside there. I'll be brainstorming on this for a bit:)
 
anrchy said:
I found that small steps are best cause some things are more difficult to reverse. This harshness has me very puzzled. I have yet to get the balls to make another attempt so I apologize for that.

Rifle how pure is the dmt you are using in the solution? I'm wondering if some how the plant fats and oils are contributing to the harshness.
Click to expand...

Definitely small steps. Don't want to change more than one variable at a time and then not to know what to attribute the change in the results to. I'll be making more attempts here, but gotta wait for another freeze precip cuz i ran out of time before work and didn't get another pull in. Solution should now be ~ 1:1 but I'm gonna try to push it beyond that.

The dmt I'm using was pure white, fluffy crystals. Didn't do anything to clean it up, but they were just what I got from the side of the jar and what I was able to break off what was sticking above the gunk layer on the bottom of the jar. I save the other stuff to clean up later. But basically, I think fats an oils should be settled to the bottom, so this DMT should be relatively free of them. Anywho, this most recent experience the harshness came more like I would expect from a dry wick and since MatriarchyOne thinks that could be the issue, I'm thinking that's still the main suspect. I'm just going to get the juice concentrated like I had it before so that I only need a few couple second hits to get to where I want. Maybe we can take short hits and hold them in our mouth to give things time to rewick and avoid harshness this way.

BTW, this page might be helpful for y'all to look at. It has some atomozier mods other members have done. The explanations are a bit rough, but there's more info on the previous page too dmt salt and electric cigarettes? - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
 
I love this thread, thanks to everyone who are vigilantly and cautiously experimenting with this approach.

Regarding the harshness, I urge you, before you reach hypothetical scenarios that involve the oils or dry wicks (which are very probable causes as well), to try just pure PG in an e-cig. Plain, clear PG (no VG at all). I could not even get 1 drag I coughed so much. Could be just me, the e-cig, the voltages etc. Just putting it out there as one of the potential culprits.
 
I don't find plain PG with no nicotine very harsh. The harshness we're experiencing is more along the line of "your throat isn't going to feel the same for at least half an hour" harsh. At least that's what happens when I take too big a hit.
 
The Neural said:
I love this thread, thanks to everyone who are vigilantly and cautiously experimenting with this approach.

Regarding the harshness, I urge you, before you reach hypothetical scenarios that involve the oils or dry wicks (which are very probable causes as well), to try just pure PG in an e-cig. Plain, clear PG (no VG at all). I could not even get 1 drag I coughed so much. Could be just me, the e-cig, the voltages etc. Just putting it out there as one of the potential culprits.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, I did eliminate this possibility. I have both USP 100% propylene glycol and USP 100% glycerin. Both were used in the 2 different tanks (one that is in the garbage) and 2 atomizers, the PG was used for atleast half a tank with and without flavoring added. I have a new tank that I am using strictly for smoking cessation right now (zero DMT, zero additives).

I also attempted, while using PG, to simulate a dry hit and it was literally identical to what I experienced with the DMT solution. Although harsher, as I was taking much smaller hits with the DMT solution.

I personally dont find any of the carriers to be harsh at all ever, on their own.
 
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