Veggie Oil Extraction Log

[amor_fati]

Time to play catch up as we race into the new age.

This log will be geared for the authorship of my Compendium for the Extraction of Jurema--the first tier in a three tier project including the development of Juremala and The Inspirator mkII--but toward that end, results and input from others on the matter of veggie oil extraction would be wonderful to see here. It will likely take SWIM some time to finish the experimentation, as he's only just confirmed its viability with the mere 200g MHRB he had on hand.

SWIM has two particular goals in mind with this experimentation: To obtain a reasonably pure extract comparable to what may be obtained with heptane using only heated veggie oil as the solvent and extracting to exhaustion; then to obtain a less pure but reasonably active extract by adding a small amount of limonene to the previously used oil and repeating the extraction process. Theoretically, the pure-ish extract could be used strictly for vaporization and the less pure for Juremala.

What SWIM has already confirmed is that the dual-solvent mixture of limonene and veggie-oil does in fact extend the viability of what would typically be considered insufficient amounts of limonene (as in, not enough to fully submerge the source material), reducing the costs of extraction substantially. Unfortunately, this is what he spent the bulk of his experimentation on, only just barely confirming that the oil works on its own and how.

So without further ado, some photos (explanation will follow):

 

[amor_fati]

Before I forget, I'd like to make mention of the prior posting related to this:
The Poor Mans Tek - A 100% Fat Free, Food Safe, Grocery Store Solution to DMT Extraction
amor_fati's Nontoxic Approach to the Extraction of DMT
No d-Limo, No NP Solvent, No Acetone, All-Natural Extraction?


Now, pertaining to the photos:
-The first two are the results of FASW from a pure veggie oil extraction (in conjunction with limtek, of course). Note that the result is quite pale in color and fairly fluffy which made it easy to scrape up.

[On a side note, the yield is fairly tiny due to SWIM's using lighter filtering than normal and attempting to do the stirring in THP. Now SWIM keeps the material in a jar for stirring, decanting through THP, only dumping the material directly into THP when hen's fairly certain that he's on his final pull.]

-The second two were the FASW results from a pure limonene extraction. The result is fairly flakey and sticky and tends to jump around when scraped up. SWIM typically just adds a bit of water, scrapes into a pile, and re-evaps to remedy this, but it's rather troublesome.

-The next three are the results of a freebase conversion/manual crystallization of the veggie-oil extracted, FASW retrieved product. Unfortunately, SWIM was a bit too eager and neglected to thoroughly wash of the sodium carbonate, so there was a slight amount of contamination. He promises to be far more thorough the next time, but the results definitely point to veggie-oil pulling a more pure product than limonene or a mixture of the two.

-The final photo is the result of the limonene/veggie-oil mixture retrieved by FASW, which was far easier to scrape up than when SWIM just used limonene.


A few notes on the procedure:
As seen in the photo pertaining to this, the FASW evap is likely to leave traces of oil behind. SWIM's found that a light IPA wash (though it doesn't seem quite soluble in veggie-oil, which may open up some interesting possibilites) or limonene wash followed by IPA and a quick but thorough drying remedies this. SWIM's also concocting a procedure for fumarate purification by water that should do the trick, as well without the need for other solvents.

 

[Metanoia]

You are a saint.

Can't wait to hear more results!

 

[endlessness]

Thanks for the work fati, all experimentation is greatly welcome!

Any comparison on yields with the different solvents?

 

[amor_fati]

Any comparison on yields with the different solvents?

Unfortunately, he can't rightly say regarding the pure oil; however, he could hardly tell the difference between the mix and the limonene in terms of quantity, but the quality--in terms of being easy to work with--was markedly better whenever the veggie-oil was used. SWIM has a hunch though that yield in limtek depends mainly on the quality of basification (adequate lime, water, and stirring), as no matter how well it dissolves in the solvent used (at least with nonpolar, that is), it's more prone to migrate into it than stick around in a bunch of bark dough, especially with a heated solvent. Somehow it seems like the mechanics of it are far straight-forward to fail, the operator just needs to be diligent enough to take advantage.

 

[Curiouskid]

Synchronicity, when one is lost there is always someone to guide hime to the light!! Thank you so much for your work amor_fati, very much appreciated this veggie-oil movement

 

[amor_fati]

Hey, thanks for all the kudos, fellas.

Just for the record, SWIM's oil of choice for the moment will be soy oil (often sold as generic vegetable oil). Logos2012's got the olive oil end of things pretty well covered. So if anyone's just itching for spice, stick with those two for the moment, but if your not particularly hurting for it, try some different oils--the cheaper the better. Wouldn't recommend trying them with water-intensive teks (typically utilizing NaOH), as the reports seem fairly negative; not much point in doing so anyway to SWIM's thinking. Also, be wary of salting with vinegar, though it'd be nice to hear some more reports on this; otherwise, stick with FASW.

Also, limonene diluted with veggie oil seems less prone to dissolving plastics, don't push it though, just be aware...possibly useful for household purposes.

 

[Malaclypse]

Awesome stuff once again.

SWIM will probably give this a try with some oil on one of his next extractions. He has only done one so far, but things up to and including the fumarate went ok he thinks, it is just the conversion to freebase that he seems to have messed up (somehow getting a 10x increase in crystals, most which are clear and clearly can't be active ).

So maybe after one more go he will be willing to try some different oils instead of limo. I know he is all for experimenting and sharing so I doubt SWIM will have an issue testing on 50g of MHRB.

 

[logos2012]

Nice! Green Entity had a hunch that soy oil would turn out quite yellow and not orangish. Also seems a bit more peanut buttery oily than with olive oil, where as SWIY can spread it over the plate.

He says with olive oil it looks more like the limo extracted stuff but lighter color and a bit pink. Also that it turns out more powdery and less oily than those pics look. After the iso pulls from the freebased fumerates it dries to a clear dense oil. Then he has to play with it with a razor blade to get it to completely dry. It dries a white color, then when scraped up it is the orangish pink color.

He would love to hear some reports of the experiences on the pure soy stuff. The reason he didn't try it with soy yet is because most in the stores is GMO although there is some that one can purchase online which is organic.

 

[narmz]

This is delightful!

 

[amor_fati]

A couple of updates for you guys:

As it turns out, vinegar works just fine for salting, at least in the case of veggie oil with limonene added (less than 3:1 by SWIM's best estimate), but SWIM suspects it works fine for just oil as well. Keep in mind SWIM doesn't bother with breaking emulsions to do a traditional separation, but rather, he freezes the mixture to separate the polar and nonpolar layer and to decant the nonpolar layer--emulsions are never a bother with this technique. Also, SWIM uses distilled white vinegar diluted with water (perhaps 1:5...just a few glugs of vinegar, really), which he supposes to be the best way to reduce acetic acid contamination in the final product and plenty acidic for the salting process.

SWIM's been doing a bit of work with heat induced dissociation of acetates (as per q21q21's findings) and has been successful in achieving a solid smokable product using either a food dehydrator or a double boiler style, dish over a steambath (using a crockpot to produce the steam); both in conjunction with repeated manual crystallization techniques to help to expose more acetates and release the acetic acid into the air, as well as to end up with a solid chunk. SWIM suspects that a quick rinse with a minute amount of saturated sodium carbonate solution followed by a cold water rinse may do the trick for hastening the process.

SWIM's definitely hoping that vinegar works well with this, that way, everything necessary for the process can be obtained at grocery store; as in, no need for specialty materials like fumaric acid (oh how he would miss it though). And while limonene may give a little boost in getting a bit more out of one's extraction (in theory, obtaining a wider range of molecules not available to the veggie oil), veggie oil should suffice in obtaining a more pure product for most purposes.


Also, a bit of work done toward finishing the compendium:
Amor fati's Compendium for the Extraction of Jurema - DMT-Nexus Wiki
still a ways to go though.

 

[Curiouskid]

Hi guys, SWIM is trying at the moment a small scale extraction with sunflower oil and vinegar+H2O pulls; after emulsion he tried to throw the jar in the freezer but this morning everything was kind of frozen-liquefied... He then thowed and pulled the vinegar finally separated with a syringe.
He doesn't find it really efficient and clean, would you have any suggestion? Is it easy to scoop out the liquefied oil from the top to get to the frozen vinegar-water at the bottom?
He's got some more pulls tonight to do he'll probably try both and compare.

Thanks for this new way of extracting that's really exciting, SWIM will report his yield in a few days for this straight sun oil extract

ps: this post was in the wrong place so it has been moved over here, sorry...

 

[amor_fati]

Hi guys, SWIM is trying at the moment a small scale extraction with sunflower oil and vinegar+H2O pulls; after emulsion he tried to throw the jar in the freezer but this morning everything was kind of frozen-liquefied... He then thowed and pulled the vinegar finally separated with a syringe.
He doesn't find it really efficient and clean, would you have any suggestion? Is it easy to scoop out the liquefied oil from the top to get to the frozen vinegar-water at the bottom?

Ah, SWIM had it happen once where the polar layer was frozen and the nonpolar layer was gelled, but it's only happened once; he's not sure why yet, but perhaps it's avoidable somehow. All he did was kind of shake and squeeze it out like shampoo (his salting vessel is an old HDPE vinegar jug), leaving the solid chunk of FASW in the bottom. If he remembers correctly, the gelled oil didn't leave much behind with the ice chunk, but a rinse with a dash of IPA, limonene or both wouldn't hurt. Most of SWIM's work thus-far has been with a limonene/oil combo, so it's hard to say for sure.

 

[prottel]

Here is a list of freezing points for some oils. Maybe it would be easier to work with those that freeze at a lower temperature:
corn oil / -20 C
sunflower oil / -17 C
canola oil / -10 C
olive oil / -6 C
sesame oil / -6 C
peanut oil / 3 C
palm oil / 24.1 C
coconut oil / 25.1 C

 

[Big Inhale]

My buddy is doing a STB and has a problem. He took 50grms of bark and mixed with 750ml of lye water then he added 150ml of Extra virgin olive oil mixed with 50 ml of limo. Now it has two distinct layers the bottom which is my mhrb solution and the top layer which is gray and sparkly not olive oil color like I expected. So hes guessing its an emulsion what would be a good remedy for this? He is also doing 50grms side by side with naptha to check the difference.

 

[amor_fati]

My buddy is doing a STB and has a problem. He took 50grms of bark and mixed with 750ml of lye water then he added 150ml of Extra virgin olive oil mixed with 50 ml of limo. Now it has two distinct layers the bottom which is my mhrb solution and the top layer which is gray and sparkly not olive oil color like I expected. So hes guessing its an emulsion what would be a good remedy for this? He is also doing 50grms side by side with naptha to check the difference.

Wet teks may be troublesome: No d-Limo, No NP Solvent, No Acetone, All-Natural Extraction? - Eco friendly extraction teks - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus. Not sure whether the lye solution would freeze or not, but freezing may get rid of the emulsions. It may turn out messy regardless, but don't throw anything out, as it's always salvageable. Next time, get yerself some lime, and you won't have to deal with such trifles.


As a side note, SWIM wonders at how much of Biodiesel Production may be helpful in making this process more efficient. At the very least, SWIM can imagine possibly recycling old cooking oil to be used for extraction, since he'd like to get into distillation anyway.

Also, it's worth mentioning that though he was a little anxious when his oil froze, he was surprised at how it easy it was to work around and had very little trouble when all was said and done. Among the few problems he's been aware of regarding limtek w/ or w/o veggie oil is the basified mixture holding onto an amount of oil (limo or veggie), and while he's never known this to be a real problem, he's sure it happens despite never having measured, himself. Working with a limited amount of an expensive solvent like limonene, he can see why this might be worrisome for folks, but just keep performing flushes; with the employment of THP, it will all drain in the end and will not have noticeably reduced yields, regardless.

 

[biopsylo]

My buddy is doing a STB and has a problem. He took 50grms of bark and mixed with 750ml of lye water then he added 150ml of Extra virgin olive oil mixed with 50 ml of limo. Now it has two distinct layers the bottom which is my mhrb solution and the top layer which is gray and sparkly not olive oil color like I expected. So hes guessing its an emulsion what would be a good remedy for this? He is also doing 50grms side by side with naptha to check the difference.

Wet teks may be troublesome: No d-Limo, No NP Solvent, No Acetone, All-Natural Extraction? - Eco friendly extraction teks - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus. Not sure whether the lye solution would freeze or not, but freezing may get rid of the emulsions. It may turn out messy regardless, but don't throw anything out, as it's always salvageable. Next time, get yerself some lime, and you won't have to deal with such trifles.


As a side note, SWIM wonders at how much of Biodiesel Production may be helpful in making this process more efficient. At the very least, SWIM can imagine possibly recycling old cooking oil to be used for extraction, since he'd like to get into distillation anyway.

Also, it's worth mentioning that though he was a little anxious when his oil froze, he was surprised at how it easy it was to work around and had very little trouble when all was said and done. Among the few problems he's been aware of regarding limtek w/ or w/o veggie oil is the basified mixture holding onto an amount of oil (limo or veggie), and while he's never known this to be a real problem, he's sure it happens despite never having measured, himself. Working with a limited amount of an expensive solvent like limonene, he can see why this might be worrisome for folks, but just keep performing flushes; with the employment of THP, it will all drain in the end and will not have noticeably reduced yields, regardless.

yeah, i have thought about using an ethyl ester for extraction. i doubt heating will be necessary. but getting a pure ethyl ester is not that easy. sure you can buy ASTM spec biodiesel, which is a methyl ester of who knows what oil, and is processed with naoh and methanol. i have produced ethyl esters with koh, and virgin sunflower and canola. even made a batch with hardwood potash (potassium carbonate)

imo its not worth it to use recycled vegetable oil for an extraction. too many impurities, and high ffa content. this also complicates the conversion to ethyl ester. it is difficult to make ethyl ester with used vegetable oil. and if you want to be "eco friendly" then i would not use methyl esters for obvious reasons.

besides virgin vegetable oil is inexpensive.

it remains to be seen if the glycerine leg of the triglyceride hinders or helps this type of extraction.

i can attest to the solvent properties of biodiesel for freeing rusty parts, etc. it works in ways pure vegetable oil does not. the glycerine has been substituted for an alcohol. perhaps it will make a great np solvent for extractions.

wish i had some more 200 proof ethanol, i would make up a batch.

 

[Big Inhale]

So my buddy froze it and the bottom layer is frozen an the top is like a slushy so what should he do? Maybe unfreeze and add salt?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Your buddy has probably made soap. This is what happens when you mix lye with oils/fats. I think you may be a bit screwed. Sorry.

 

[Big Inhale]

Your buddy has probably made soap. This is what happens when you mix lye with oils/fats. I think you may be a bit screwed. Sorry.

he is never screwed. He froze then put in a heat bath seems to be separating nicely. Also there was some soapy looking creamiiness but it seems to have subsided.

UPDATE- He seperated the top layer frop the soup but the creamiiness was still in between te two layers. he put the oil in a seperate container and added vinegar now the oil is on top there is a a middle layer ( hes guessing its soap :[ ) and then the vnegar layer which is yellow now. He wil evap the vin and see what happens. Any thoughts on how to clean up the soapy layer would be helpful. More updates to come.Also what could be contained in the soap layer?