Violent Vs Non violent resistance to corporate global raping

[RayOfLight]

I've been thinking alot lately about how this planet is going to be saved
if it can be at all.

There is the Gandhi approach of non violent resistance and then there is the alternative. I watched a great documentary on the subject and I would like to hear what any of you think about this.

http://www.truththeory.org/end-civ-resist-or-die/

~ Peace ~

 

[jamie]

have not watched it yet, but I guess different situations call for different reactions. I would prefer a non violent approach myslef, and I dont think violent resistance is the answer to our problems..but hey when they back you into a corner with guns in your faces there are only a number of options to choose from..and that is just a fact that I find some naive new agers never really adress. It is sad that it is that way. Still, shooting ones way out of individual situations is not what is going to make it so that it does not come to that in the first place.

 

[RayOfLight]

A few days ago I saw another documentary about Tiananmen square and the massacre that took place there. Peaceful protesters that just want basic freedoms getting mowed down by machine guns... It almost literally made me sick.

I just don't know what to think anymore.... clearly I need a dose.

 

[RayOfLight]

Maybe If we turn the other cheek, maybe if we do what Jesus or Buddha suggests at the point of death you ascend into a higher dimension because you overcame hate with love.....

Guess there is no way to know for sure unless you try it. I dunno If I'm ready to sign up for that yet.

 

[SWIMfriend]

There's no one to fight. The damage is being caused by people/civilization generally. The only remedy is getting people to understand the problems well enough so that they see they must change.

 

[jamie]

the only problem I see with worrying about some sort of ascention is the fact that it sort of becomes a cop out in relation to what is going on in the real world. I dont believe in some kind of ascention that has to do with people dissapearing from planet earth while all of our problems lay out here unadressed. I think we actually have to fix what we have here and now and what we call ascention will instead be something more like "inscention", as we inscend and create paradise on earth.

 

[RayOfLight]

There's no one to fight. The damage is being caused by people/civilization generally. The only remedy is getting people to understand the problems well enough so that they see they must change.

Pretty much everyone I talk to already knows were screwed.

 

[RayOfLight]

I've thought about it in two different ways, the materialist way where I think that this planet is a material organic object that exists the way most people think it does and when I think about it in that way I realize that in reality we have a global elite group of sociopaths and sociopathic corporations and the only way to deal with them is to destroy them. like destroying a cancerous growth in the body .

From a spiritual perspective there is no actual material world as we think of it but rather pure consciousness and the murder we think is real and get all bent out of shape over is really no more real than a movie your watching on TV.

I just don't know where I stand on it.

 

[jamie]

^ I tend to not think it is one or the other..probly an intricate fussion of the 2. I dont think you can just forget about earth and think there is some other fantacy land waiting for us and that everything here means nothing, and at the same time I think that fantacy is out there waiting for us, but we have to build it here and now out of what we already have.

 

[The Day Tripper]

Yeah, history has been all about violent uprisings. A few good apples shined out from the masses thought. Its very tough, but if you can take the attitude ghandi took, that's a good place to start. I'm not going to try to explain his ideas in a few words, or a quote. Just watch the movie, and you can see how nonviolence can work. He made both sides work for and want non-violence which was an incredibly difficult task.

The British were fine with using violence and terror, so long as it did not stir up the masses. But as soon as they mowed down 1000+ unarmed non-violent hindu protestors, women, children, etc. It did not matter anymore, they could not control the country and my hurting/killing people who would not fight back, it sent a powerful message through the hearts and mind of his countrymen.

By striking a blow to them/ghandi it only made them stronger. Remember some people, wont stand up to a bully, but deep down knows what he does is wrong. if people can rationalize and be able to communicate this message as Ghandi did, then there's a bright future for all of us.

 

[Xt]

There's no one to fight. The damage is being caused by people/civilization generally. The only remedy is getting people to understand the problems well enough so that they see they must change.

I mirror this opinion.

 

[dreamtimereturn]

Before we as nexians on this topic in this forum can come to a conclusion or an idea of where to go from here i think its important that we spread this message or any message that anyone of us thinks should be spread. before we're able to get to a rational and non-violent personal and global estimate on how to save our earth we have to consider the 'countless everyone elses' that have yet to ponder the violence and destruction going on today, going on yesterday as well as the countless generations before us and the countless before them that didn't oppose such violence. we have to call them out on not thinking about or caring about these thing, because these things are basic and i'm sure we here all and already know this.

the internet is a great tool for connecting minds and i believe this will be of most use to us, to organize an opinion and then to go forth to solve the bigger issues here.

I personally have no idea where to begin with this, i find myself here sitting in an expensive apartment living above another family in a broken down town, many of you are in the same situation and i can say this because it must be true. i feel alone, like no one around me feels the same. so when will we organize then? and how.

 

[obliguhl]

The problem is the word "Violence". What does it mean?
For some people, this forum already violates principles they hold dear ("Drugs are bad"). For them, the sheer existence of the nexus is violence against their culture.

There is noone who decides, "which" violence is real violence, because noone can say if something like "justified" or "unjustified" violence exists.

In the End, there is only partnership as a real solution. Cooperation and giving people some of your room. Unfortunatly, many people are trying to dominate - there is a mainstream culture. So a fight against mainstream culture by expressing ones own ideas is already violence in the sense that it forces ego-centered and greedy individuals and groups into cooperation.

During one of my most valuable DMT lessons i was told:

"The wrath of god is the power that forces you into love"

I believe, that this is highly relevant here.

 

[corpus callosum]

Good video, but presenting a less than holisitic analysis.

The planet is fucked and is only going to get worse;the Gandhi approach whilst noble is limited, and the adherence to non-violence cause little in the way of sleepless nights to the upholders of the Power Structure..There has to be a point where active, sometimes violent action is necessary and infact honorable and this goes beyond saving the planet.Why do you think despite the USAs military clout, the Afghan farmers (called in the West as Taliban) are fighting back.Their personal line has been crossed.

IMO, the debt based financial system is the biggest culprit;we individuals and our governments are beholden to this as we are financially endebted to it, and this fact makes it so hard to decide to not play the game and go and live in the woods in a self-sustainable nature.

The environmentalists miss alot of the point-targetting big corporations is a distraction.The big corps are simply players who are very successful in the system as it stands, and their rapacious nature is the only way to maintain this success.In many ways they are compelled to behave thus, as they too are subservient to the 'rules' of the financial system as it exists.


We should also recall that a better idea of any organisations truest purpose depite its utterances is best gleaned by looking at who its backers are.For example, Friends of the Earth, that famous GreenPeace-like outfit , was financed to a very large degree by the Rockefeller family in the very early 70s for the purpose of vociferously protesting against the nuclear industry.This allowed Rockefeller and associated bigwigs to continue their oil-related exploits with less attention from the media.

IMO, these activists who are almost becoming like a seed which may sprout into a green 'Al Qaeda' type outfit will be slapped hard by the US Patriot ACT which I suspect is not for repealing as its remit covers many areas which make the Act indispensable.


The perversity of the Debt-based financial system we have should be the focus of those wishing to effect the changes the earth and its inhabitants need-all the negative things mentioned in the vid are, IMO, a consequence of this.The cycle of production and consumption simply cannot be allowed to be broken as this is the only way for the defunct system we have to tick over.

 

[dreamtimereturn]

-there is a mainstream culture. So a fight against mainstream culture by expressing ones own ideas is already violence in the sense that it forces ego-centered and greedy individuals and groups into cooperation.

yes, the mainstream culture is very large and intimidating with their beliefs and their law inforcement, and we don’t know what violence is exactly, but when we see it we do. there are spectrums of looking at things and violence and forcing people into thinking something is one of them. it all depends on the circumstances of the situation though, if you were able to take a peak at the video RayOfLight posted i think it would be clear what exactly we are fighting against or in disagreement of, but in a non-psychical sense, in the mind. because we’re not sure what ‘violence’ entails exactly doesn’t mean at all that its not happening to and in front of a lot of people animals and plants on a daily basis in one form or another.

Thats where i’m confused and forgive me if i read you wrong obliguhl, i don’t think everyone comes at it ego centered and greedy, some people have just been ill informed or haven’t asked the question. which doesn’t make them a bad person, it just means ill informed. i’d like to present to anyone and everyone the world as i see it also wanting their opinion in return on the exact same thing and hope that they might one day ask the same of someone else then someone else, starting a huge chain reaction meditation on the subject. if only. if we can spread the word that the earth is suffering and so is everyone on it- as a result then we can force- ..well influence them to make their own decisions instead of letting other people, laws or even corporations make decisions for them, i think that might be where human beings being ill informed comes from, or an extension of it anyway. it's all process upon process, as is science which most of us stand by.

In the End, there is only partnership as a real solution.

Words to stand by

 

[christian]

I've been looking at a few decent U Tube vids lately. From what i've concluded, it doesn't matter what you think because the Government has it all planned out already, and there's nothing you can do to stop it- We really are at their mercy, whether we like to admit it or not. They could ban all fuels, foods, whatever- if they wanted to, and their police and armies would have to enforce this. I am afraid that all these "save the world" people are just there , allowed by the government to keep us feeling like we have some control- but it's all a clever illusion, like the voting system, wars, or aids epidemic-Just a game of lies, that keeps us busy and occupied in the bullshit complication of big words and other crap, when life is and always has just been a simple, easy affair-(NOW turned into a living hell)!!

- Our freedoms are mostly an illusion that we are lead to believe-See how hard it is to go against the grain, and be denounced by your family and friends as either a loser, weirdo, or schitzophrenic should you choose to do so....Yup, those buggers have got everyone under their evil spells of lies, and there's little we can do-EXCEPT TRY....:x

 

[SKA]

thanks for sharing that doc. I will watch it in a minute.
I too have been pondering ways of peacefully resisting/bringing down the corperate tyrany.

First thing that came to mind was Economical warfare. Large companies that have too much political influence and poison our world with injustice, violence and pollution.
They're companies so like profit, they have costs. We can think of ways to help minimize their profit while maximising their costs, aiming to financially bring them to their knees.

Have any of you seen the documentairy Yes Men fix the World? They did a series of hoaxes/stunts to bring media attention to huge moral scandals of large corporations they didn't like.
1 of them pretended to be a spokesman of DowChemical company ( who had caused a mayor catastrophe in a chemical factory in Bhopal, India being neglectfull leading to a poisonous gas explosion that killed 1000nds and still makes people there ill today).
Posing as the spokesperson of this company he spoke live on BBC news to billions of people, claiming that "Dow finally accepts full responsibility for the Bhopal disaster and had agreed
to use most of this year's 12 million dollars of profit to completely clean up the spillsite at Bhopal and pay for all medical costs the victims need for the rest of their lives."

This of course was a bold lie and soon enough BBC found out that this guy was NOT a spokesman of Dow. He came back to the news station when they asked him to come and explain why he pulled of
the hoax. He explained that it was what Dow SHOULD be doing and that he wanted public attention to the victims of Bhopal.

Because of this news, Overnight, Dow chem company lost 3 million dollars when their shocked stockholders massively sold their Dow-Stocks.
They off course all selfishly thought: "What?! They're gunna use MY profit to help those poor people in Bhopal? AAARGH! I've got to sell my Dow-Stock NOW!"

Within a couple of days in every newspaper appears an article with the header "Dow company denies any intentions of helping Bhopal Victims".
Off course this only made their public image dirtier. It was as if those 2 yesmen had a large, powerfull corporation checkmate, using only their clever minds.

Everyone who hasn't seen Yesmen fix the World, Go watch it. Now!
Let it be an inspiration to non-violent resistance and assault to bring down the corporate tyrany.


Now I found that a very inspiring, creative way to hit a large powerfull, immoral corporation so incredibly hard where it hurts,
without using any violence whatsoever.

 

[christian]

Quick everybody, buy your tent, and leave your job, and "responsabilities" and car ownership...how will the bullshit consumer industry survive without any participants.......no need for big supermarkets, gas stations,etc.......

- the nature will be our stimulation and king- not some crap on tv "entertaining" us,and insulting our intelligence.

-Trouble is, the way things are.,there won't be any nature left!!:shock:

 

[Kronas]

Im all for non-violence. We need to stop allowing ourselves to be brainwashed, and reintegrate with nature. Only big problem here is, 90% of people don't want to do that. Many will become violent, hopefully we choose to stay out of there way.

 

[jamie]

^nature is harsh though, and when a group of repressed people pick up guns and start to take back what should be a birthright that is just nature. Back an animal into a corner and it will attack. We are animals too, we just wear cloths.

Like I have said I am all for non-violence..but we only have one earth and how many songs can you sing before there is nothing left to sing for? That is what worries me, that we will passivly wait peacefully while every single thing that is beautiful is taken from us and destroyed. The Unabomber understood this and while what he did was extreme he knew that it was the only way that anyone would publish his work so people could hear what he had to say on the issue. The guy was a genious but also a maniac. The question is in relation to the problem how far is too far?

I remember I took this environmental philosophy class in college and we studied eco-terrorism, and it is an issue I still feel torn over. People are simply fighting back as they watch they're forrests destroyed. We all want a world left for our children to live in.

Saying love and light and spinning aroud 3 times is not the solution IMO, unless all of us are willing to do so. Most people could not care less since they have been so brainwashed into being completely dependant on a system based on delusions of a free and sustainable future that that system will never create.

This is why I think psychedelics in the proper setting are our best bet. Yes I think EVERYONE should have at least one ayahuasca experience in they're lifetime. I think experiences such as this should be seen as innititations into adulthood. It is not the only way to get us there, but it is the most reliable IMO, when taken in the right context.

Mckenna said something like "we are sick and we require pharmacological intervention". I think we are sick and we do require such intervention. The real problem IMO is people are partially brain dead. We are raised on foods that are deficient and toxic and inhibit brain growth, we are hyptotized and programmed by television and public school, and we have become removed and divorced from the natural word so we no longer hear the voice of the planet earth. We just dont have that dialogue anymore. So by the time we are "adults" we are basically drones ready for activation.