Virola resin

[Ginkgo]

I recently acquired some resin of both Virola theiodora and Virola calophylla. Do I understand it correct that both should be mixed with calcium hydroxide or similar before using it as a snuff? Do I also have to do this in order to use it sublingually?

Am I also correct that Virola theiodora contains mainly 5-MeO-DMT, while Virola calophylla contains mainly DMT? I am a bit lost here, and I can't seem to get more wise from some quick searches... Could anyone explain the usage of these two resins in more detail for me?

Thanks in advance!

 

[69ron]

Virola theiodora contains 5-MeO-DMT which is active sublingually as is, but adding lime makes it come on faster. It's nicer if you don't add lime because it slows the trip a little. SWIM snuffed it before but can’t remember the details about whether lime was needed or not.

Virola calophylla contains DMT and needs to be mixed with lime to be effective sublingually or as snuff.

In either case it helps to grind the resin pieces to very fine powder before use. And always store the resin in an air tight container.

 

[Ginkgo]

Thank you ron, it is certainly good to have you and your wisdom back at the board! When you say lime, I assume you refer to calcium hydroxide. Could I use lime juice to get the same result as with pure calcium hydroxide?

 

[rOm]

Lime juice is more an acid and calcium hydroxide is more of a base, and in the virola recipe, the point is if I'm correct a sort of freebasing (as you would do with vilca). thought I never worked with lime juice ...
PS: My bad it wasn't a freebasing story but more a pH story this basifying.. Thanks 69ron for reminding us this !

 

[Ginkgo]

Lime juice is more an acid and calcium hydroxide is more of a base, and in the virola recipe, the point is if I'm correct a sort of freebasing (as you would do with vilca). thought I never worked with lime juice ...

Oh, of course, that was a stupid suggestion of mine... What about using sodium carbonate instead of calcium hydroxide? I can't seem to get calcium hydroxide, but I can always heat some baking soda...

 

[69ron]

You need the pH to be about 9 for Virola calophylla resin to work well sublingually or as snuff (the same applies to Yopo/Vilca snuff). With calcium hydroxide, if you overdo it, it burns, but not nearly as bad as sodium carbonate can. But if you add just enough sodium carbonate, there should be no burn from the sodium carbonate. Sodium carbonate actually works very well, but just make sure you don’t put too much. I’m not sure exactly how much to use. If you have pH papers, you can easily figure it out. Wet the resin, add the sodium carbonate, and check the pH. If lower than 9, add a little more until it’s at 9 and no higher and you should have perfect snuff.

 

[Ginkgo]

Thanks mate, you have been of great help! I don't have PH papers right now, so I will wait with the V. calophylla resin until I do. Going to try some V. theiodora together with some caapi copy though. The V. theiodora can be used as is, right? How is the bioavailability sublingually compared to nasally?

 

[69ron]

Virola theiodora is best used as is sublingually. It’s hard though because it’s powdery. With the sublingual route, technique is everything. If not done right, even with good resin, nothing will happen. It’s tricky. Snuffing is less prone to technique problems. If the technique is perfected, sublingual use is as potent as snuffing it. Snuffing is easier for the novice though. When using it sublingually, the main problem is it turning to mud. You need to press hard on it with it under your tongue and not allow it to escape while slowly sucking on it to prevent saliva build up. Some natives instead put it in their cheek and slowly suck on it with their cheeck pressed against it, holding it in place. That works too but SWIM found it easier to place under the tongue. But if you need a very large dose, putting it in your cheek is the way to go.

 

[Ginkgo]

Okay, cool! Thanks again. I'm thinking about using the Virola calophylla as Pharmahuasca together with some Caapi Copy. Is there any reason why that would be a bad idea? Also, what dosage is recommended? Is Virola calophylla as variable in potency as Virola theiodora is?

 

[69ron]

Unlike Virola theiodora, Virola calophylla resin is pretty consistent, but still degrades over time, just not as badly as Virola theiodora does. 500 mg is enough to feel it. About 1 gram should be enough for a pleasant trip, nothing intense, some visuals are present at that dose. It’s extremely nice, smooth, and quite different from what you expect from a DMT containing resin. It’s sort of like Psilocybe azurescens in effects. Taking it with an MAOI mixed into it is a good idea, and traditional in some places. Actually it’s added to ayahuasca as the sole DMT source in some parts of the world.

Individual reactions to Virola theiodora vary dramatically. With the same batch, from person to person, doses needed from person to person can vary by a factor of 10! Everyone reacts very different to 5-MeO-DMT, so giving out dosage information is very hard. SWIM loves the 500 mg dosage range and never really goes beyond that much. It’s enough for pretty strong LSD-style psychedelic mental effects, lots of euphoria, and some swirling visual effects (no colors). But for some people 500 mg is way too much, and for others, they won’t even feel it. Starting doses are from 100 mg to 1000 mg, depending primarily on the person using it. Also old resin is pretty useless. 5-MeO-DMT oxidizes pretty fast, becoming brown sticky oil, and it’s not so effective once that happens. The resin will last longer if you don’t freebase it and if you keep it in an air tight container.

 

[fourthripley]

5-MeO-DMT oxidizes pretty fast, becoming brown sticky oil,

That doesn't correspond to my experience; I have a sample of pure fb stored in a baggie, in an envelope, stored on my desk at room temperature, after two years still as white and sparkly as the day I bought it.

 

[69ron]

5-MeO-DMT oxidizes pretty fast, becoming brown sticky oil,

That doesn't correspond to my experience; I have a sample of pure fb stored in a baggie, in an envelope, stored on my desk at room temperature, after two years still as white and sparkly as the day I bought it.

SWIM has seen it turn to brown oily crap after a few months. Are you sure it's freebase and not 5-MeO-DMT HCl?

 

[fourthripley]

I am sure it's freebase yes.

 

[69ron]

Where SWIM lives, even his DMT gets oxidized after a few months if not kept air tight. It might be environmental. Are you in a dry location?

 

[fourthripley]

You might be on to something, statisticaly this is apparently the driest part of the UK. I've likewise noticed no deterioration of 3 year old, room temp stored NN, still as potent as the day it was put away. Still, I remain sceptical that genuine Virola resin is particuarly subject to fast degradation; it's the product of a hot, humid enviroment and- as far as I am aware- is produced on a large batch basis rather than as immediately needed. The little I have read on the qualities of genuine Virola resins bears little resemblence- either physical or pharmacologically- to the powders available from online vendors.