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*Water Only* Tek -- work in progress
- Thread starter Wanderer
- Start date
Wanderer
Rising Star
Excellent work everyone!
Dagger, that looks exactly right! Yes, that's the liquid DMT. Over time it will solidify and form crystals, and like you said, this can day anywhere from a couple days up to a week or two, depending on how much there is. If you have the materials, it might be interesting to do a non-polar pull from the water after you've filtered out the crystals, to see if anything was left over.
As far as yield is concerned, SWIM doesn't have a small enough scale to do measure what was extracted from 35g of MHRB, but it looks to be around at least 350mg from my eyes (the crystals come together to form a size of roughly a quarter, with a thickness of perhaps 4-8mm. I will try another batch in the future (50-100g) to see if my scale will pick up what comes out of that.
I'm fairly sure the product is as pure as most other extractions, from what I have seen in comparison to other pictures. The crystals SWIM got were clean, clear, with only the slightest of yellow colors. He expects these could be cleaned further with another ice water wash or a recrystalization with anhydrous acetone (though this sorta defeats the purpose of water only
).
I hope this works for everyone as well as it did for SWIM!
-- Wanderer
Dagger, that looks exactly right! Yes, that's the liquid DMT. Over time it will solidify and form crystals, and like you said, this can day anywhere from a couple days up to a week or two, depending on how much there is. If you have the materials, it might be interesting to do a non-polar pull from the water after you've filtered out the crystals, to see if anything was left over.
As far as yield is concerned, SWIM doesn't have a small enough scale to do measure what was extracted from 35g of MHRB, but it looks to be around at least 350mg from my eyes (the crystals come together to form a size of roughly a quarter, with a thickness of perhaps 4-8mm. I will try another batch in the future (50-100g) to see if my scale will pick up what comes out of that.
I'm fairly sure the product is as pure as most other extractions, from what I have seen in comparison to other pictures. The crystals SWIM got were clean, clear, with only the slightest of yellow colors. He expects these could be cleaned further with another ice water wash or a recrystalization with anhydrous acetone (though this sorta defeats the purpose of water only
).I hope this works for everyone as well as it did for SWIM!
-- Wanderer
Dorge said:
Addendum for Noman's TEK (1)
1) Get rid of the ammonia wash. For whatever reason, it seems to cause problems for at least half the people that use it. Change it to a wash of the NP with a weak basic solution.
FAQ (2)
"DO NOT WASH WITH AMMONIA! Many people report losing yield with ammonia wash"
There was actually a recent thread of someone who lost yield with ammonia and like Noman said it has been sketchy since it's implementation.
I don't think you can wash per se (carbonate wash aside) DMT in such matter. The only replacement for this would be dissolving DMT in a "friendly" solvent (to remove traces of other solvents) with friendly well, being as non toxic as possible. Alcohols would probably be the answer but I'm sure end will you give a much more detailed answer.
Wanderer
Rising Star
I think additional cold water should be fine. SWIMs final product is pretty pure using this simple procedure. If there is a lot of particulate left in the product, simply dissolve the freebase in acetone and separate from the particulate contaminants.
-- Wanderer
-- Wanderer
Nature Boy
Rising Star
Wow...this is excellent. Would a heptane (Bestine) re-X get rid of any residual NaOH?
N.B.
N.B.
Yeah but then it would kinda miss the beauty of doing a water -only tek.. What about using boiling water and then letting it cool down? Boiling water and plenty of stiring would most likely dissolve any lye even hidden in the crystals and yet when it cools down the dmt wouldnt be soluble in it even if some does dissolve at boiling temp.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
Wanderer
Rising Star
I don't know about boiling water; it might boil off the freebase. NaOH is highly soluble in water, even at low temperatures. That's why SWIM feels cool-to-cold water is best. Simply rinsing the crystals with cool water should rinse away any appreciable amounts of NaOH. The few stray molecules left over won't do much, and don't vaporize at the same temperature freebase spice does (it's much higher).
It wont boil off freebase, the numbers of freebase boiling temperature that are often quoted (60-80c) are wrong, as even shulgin said so. Several people here in the forum noticed that double-boilers do not vap dmt. In any case you dont have to use boiling water, but at least have it hot. While lye tends to dissolve well in water, it might also take a while to do so (you must have noticed how sometimes you put lye in a container with water and it just sinks to the bottom and only with some stiring it dissolves)
You can use hot water prudently and IMO would be safer by making it more sure to dissolve lye, I see only disadvantages in using cold water (though of course each one will decide for themselves
)
I agree that lye doesnt vap at lighter temperatures and that it would be little anyways but unless you are smoking in a water bong its possible unvaporized suspended particles come together with the dmt vapor. It might be too little, but it might also make it harsh. And if one can avoid it, why not, right?
You can use hot water prudently and IMO would be safer by making it more sure to dissolve lye, I see only disadvantages in using cold water (though of course each one will decide for themselves
)I agree that lye doesnt vap at lighter temperatures and that it would be little anyways but unless you are smoking in a water bong its possible unvaporized suspended particles come together with the dmt vapor. It might be too little, but it might also make it harsh. And if one can avoid it, why not, right?
I would love to experiment with this, but unfortunately (or fortunately, I suppose) I have more “product” than I will ever use. Not a bad problem to have, but it does discourage one from doing experimental extractions.
Wanderer
Rising Star
All great points endlessness -- SWIM'll give it a go with warm water too. SWIM plans to smoke a bit of the cold-water washed spice pretty soon since its a beautiful day, and he feels fantastic. Its his first significant dabble into the hyperspace, but he'll start small. SWIM will report back with how harsh the smoke is.
-- Wanderer
-- Wanderer
Wanderer
Rising Star
Indeed, to each their own!
So SWIM just got finished with a more in-depth bioassay of his product. He used an eye-dropper pipe (a long eye-dropper with copper-mesh jammed inside to act as a heat-sink -- a small version of the "machine"). He used maybe 20mg of crystals over 10 minutes, or so he thinks... time became a bit dilated/unimportant. The first drag of the pipe made SWIM feel a bit uneasy, like the oncoming of a panic attack. But since this is how he felt last time he took shrooms in the beginning, he figured it was just the tryptamines doing their magic. He was resisting the body-high (facial flushing, head "enlargement", body fuzzing, etc), but after he got comfortable with it, he took a larger second drag. This time the smoke was a bit less pleasant, but not unbearable. He didn't taste anything until he exhaled, which tasted *exactly like* new shoes. This time SWIM closed his eyes and saw a vague outline of a circular object, rotating slightly. Opening his eyes, he saw no other visual aberrations besides a decrease in depth perception. He felt his ego loosening slightly, and was more easily absorbed into the eternal now. It was pleasant, but not overpowerful. He planned to load up the pipe and do a bit more to see what the visuals were like, but his phone rang, and so SWIM took it as a sign to "hang up the phone" for today. He has some school work to finish, anyways.
In conclusion -- it's definitely pretty pure stuff, and the smoke isn't all that harsh. No burning of the throat or anything, so SWIM suspects any left over lye didn't do much of anything.
-- Wanderer
So SWIM just got finished with a more in-depth bioassay of his product. He used an eye-dropper pipe (a long eye-dropper with copper-mesh jammed inside to act as a heat-sink -- a small version of the "machine"). He used maybe 20mg of crystals over 10 minutes, or so he thinks... time became a bit dilated/unimportant. The first drag of the pipe made SWIM feel a bit uneasy, like the oncoming of a panic attack. But since this is how he felt last time he took shrooms in the beginning, he figured it was just the tryptamines doing their magic. He was resisting the body-high (facial flushing, head "enlargement", body fuzzing, etc), but after he got comfortable with it, he took a larger second drag. This time the smoke was a bit less pleasant, but not unbearable. He didn't taste anything until he exhaled, which tasted *exactly like* new shoes. This time SWIM closed his eyes and saw a vague outline of a circular object, rotating slightly. Opening his eyes, he saw no other visual aberrations besides a decrease in depth perception. He felt his ego loosening slightly, and was more easily absorbed into the eternal now. It was pleasant, but not overpowerful. He planned to load up the pipe and do a bit more to see what the visuals were like, but his phone rang, and so SWIM took it as a sign to "hang up the phone" for today. He has some school work to finish, anyways.
In conclusion -- it's definitely pretty pure stuff, and the smoke isn't all that harsh. No burning of the throat or anything, so SWIM suspects any left over lye didn't do much of anything.
-- Wanderer
Madcap
illudium Q-36
gibran2 said:I would love to experiment with this, but unfortunately (or fortunately, I suppose) I have more “product” than I will ever use. Not a bad problem to have, but it does discourage one from doing experimental extractions.
I'm in the same boat. In fact, I'm thinking I may have to do just one little 30 gram extraction just so I can know how to extract without solvents (except water)
I think an important test will be to pull the leftover tea with some d-limo to see what is left behind.
This is really really cool! It seems like THE way to do this.
Wanderer
Rising Star
Re: Cheeto -- I suppose, but I don't necessarily see a purpose in using fumaric acid at all. The alkaloids are already in salt form, and won't become a fumarate unless they are freebased and extracted from solution beforehand. You could do a freebase->fumarate->freebase to clean whatever product you get, but it's a bit unnecessary in my opinion.