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*Water Only* Tek -- work in progress

Migrated topic.
Narmz,

SWIM is attempting to do the extraction exactly as outlined in the first post only with lime instead of lye as people were curious to see the results with lime. So yes I guess that would make it a wet tek and it may not work. The whole purpose is to test out whether it works or not, SWIM is not concerned either way. The amount of solution prior to adding the lime was just over 100ml. SWIM may try again after this reducing a little further to create a little thicker solution depending on how things turn out from this one.

As for the picture, the bottom layer is not solid according to SWIM. It is a creamy solution like a heavily creamed coffee. Probably a mix of lime solid that won't dissolve but is suspended with whatever is soluble in the water as well. Either way it does appear to be some crystallization floating on the top "oily" looking layer. So we shall see what happens after many days.
 
An easy fix for this would be to dissolve some sodium carbonate in there, it should hook up with the calcium hydroxide(lime) and form sodium hydroxide(lye), and then you should be good to continue with the tek.
 
narmz said:
An easy fix for this would be to dissolve some sodium carbonate in there, it should hook up with the calcium hydroxide(lime) and form sodium hydroxide(lye), and then you should be good to continue with the tek.
Click to expand...

SWIM will let it sit for a few days in the Fridge as is first just to see and then go with that route afterwords. SWIM is just playing around to test out things and isn't worried about yield so if this goes bust no worries. Just 20g MHRB anyway. It is for the greater good.

Next time SWIM will try and do the whole tech as outlined but use Sodium Carbonate with a fresh batch of 20g and see how that goes.

Thanks for the advice!
 
Indeed Malaclypse, it doesn't really look dark enough to have freebased, but if SWIY can see floating and liquified DMT, he may be on the right path. Heating the solution might make more of the lime soluble, and so increase the pH. SWIY may also want to try sodium carbonate, but from SWIM's own experiment there, it doesn't seem to be a strong enough base (without heat).

As far as why the DMT seems to float in this case, I suspect it's because of the solute concentration of the aqueous fraction. In addition to the lye, the solution would have absorbed a lot of various other salts and soluble compounds from the plant matter. In addition to this, when SWIM washes his dirty crystals with cold water, he noticed that the darker, tea would immediately sink to the bottom (and fall through the filter), while the clean water stayed on top (and thus displaced all the dirty tea from the crystals). This indicates to SWIM that the dirty tea is significantly more dense than clean water.

-- Wanderer
 
This all seems well and good, but I would like to hear about someone doing this carefully measuring everything to help put some numbers to this and therefore making the process repeatable by others. Once product is obtained having some further analysis done on it would be very illuminating as to the effectiveness of the tec.
 
Well as far as I am aware, there are a number of people replicating the Tek, some with variations. SWIM will do this Tek again fairly soon, document fluid volumes, masses, etc, to get some solid numbers down. From a personal bioassay, SWIM can say that the product was potent and fairly pure.
 
Excellent work, I am very eager to try this out for myself as well. Seems many are already taking the 'risk', but once i have some numbers to work with, I will help back this up with my results too.
 
Considering SWIM payed no attention to chemistry in high school, he's been reluctant to try other teks of extraction. So SWIM's very grateful to the pioneers that are experimenting with this tek, he wishes them much luck in their efforts and hopes that they all gain significant yields of lovely spice. :d
 
Oh, high school chemistry... heh-heh, SWIM didn't pay attention either. Barely passed University Chem 1, and dropped out of Chem 2. I find it easier to learn on my own, and biochemical concepts are much easier to understand than quantum shells and whatnot. I know a surprising amount of chemistry now from personal exploration. SWIM doesn't like how the global academic system is set up (and yet he's still cranking away at it). But that's a topic for another day.

So SWIM is now doing a 100g tea extraction from MHRB. He will update as he gets more information. He is measuring all fluid volumes, all masses, and all time-periods between steps for optimal data-points.

-- Wanderer
 
So I had a little bit to drink to keep the night running smoothly, and so is the tea process. If this method proves reliable and efficient, SWIM thinks he will write up a sort of formal outline of the process (despite its simplicity) as a PDF so that it can be easily distributed to those who seek less complex (and potentially dangerous) extraction methods. Like astralpixels, there are many who are daunted by the use of volatile, flammable, or toxic chemicals in the conventional extraction methods, and are thus excluded from access to such a profound transformational tool, with the exception of external sources and suppliers (many of which are dubious). Despite the "new age" image it may procure, I firmly believe the human race is in dire need of an ideological and, to an extent, spiritual (not religious) awakening, lest we continue down the self-destructive path towards mutual annihilation. One needn't look far beyond the mass-media to see the world is in a precarious state. Perhaps an easier extraction method will aid in tipping the proverbial scales towards the "light" side of the collective social paradigm.

All food for thought!

-- Wanderer
 
I completely agree with you Wanderer. These new teks are the way forward for many of us. I didn't even take chemistry in high school (it's not mandatory in Canada) so I had no knowledge whatsoever on the subject. I am completely self-taught. These older teks that involved warming naphtha seemed pretty dangerous to me. Even just working with lye made me hesitant, although now, with some experience under my belt, I'm beginning to realize that I can probably use it safely if I take the right precautions.

We, as a species, are definitely in need of a spiritual awakening. A tek that is truly "for the masses" can only help in that regard. Thanks again for pioneering some new, simple methods of extraction.
 
I have a feeling the yeilds here would be lacking compared to pulls with less selective solvents like xylene and limonene..I cant see the more oily jungle DMT stuff crystalizing out of water like that. Chemistry really isnt a problem here with teks people..all it takes is 30 minutes of reading, anyone can understand a FASI etc..doesnt require any prior chem knowledge, just some light reading around the threads.

This tek would be good for people that still dont want to use anything other than lye and water..but still I would like to know what the actual yields are.
 
Wanderer, again, thanks for the work, I think its awesome that you're trying new things out and wanting to give back to the community :)

I would love to:
1- know the yields (specially if possible do a side-by-side comparing with a normal extraction)
2- know if with sodium carbonate it also works

Yeah regarding chemistry, I had 0 idea of chemistry before I joined this forum. All it takes is a bit of patience reading. There's a generation coming up nowadays that only cares for immediate answers and solutions, anything that takes a bit of effort is too much. But dedicating to something you are interested in is very important, I think educating the public cannot be spoonfeeding them with the easiest answers, but it has to help them develop their inner desire and effort to find the knowledge for themselves. This of course doesnt mean that we shouldnt try to explore and experiment and spread answers, but all im saying is that I agree with fractal, just read a bit and you'll understand things :)
 
For sure fractal and endlessness; my goal here isn't to provide a crutch for those unwilling to learn, seek, and explore enough to actualize a goal, but rather to offer an alternative to those who might want to explore their conscious experience without having access to or a safe area to use certain solvents. I have personally read, read, and read some more before even allowing SWIM to purchase anything, and I believe others should do so as well (especially with regards to the more shamanic, spiritual, and psychological theory behind it). Invariably, however, there will be those who are just seeking a quick, (relatively) cheap way to get "high" with little desire to learn or take some transcendental meaning from the experience. Fortunately, DMT often tends to show them what they need to be shown, for better or for worse. But I expect these sorts of people to exist in any situation. Furthermore, I (and many others) are not particular fans of petroleum-derived solvents, many of which not only smell noxious, but are carcinogenic (e.g., naptha) and biologically hazardous. The FASA or d-Limonene approaches are still probably the safest, but again, acetone is highly flammable (albeit relatively non-toxic) and Limonene can be difficult to come by (and is somewhat expensive when shipped).

So for your questions endlessness, SWIM has tried Sodium Carbonate (cold) and didn't really get any expulsion of liquids. If SWIM did, they sank to the bottom of solution. Strangely, he added lye to the left-over solution and didn't really see any dmt float to the top. So SWIM expects Na2CO3 did, to a degree, liberate the DMT from its salt forms, but the solution wasn't dense enough to keep it afloat (probably owing to Sodium Carbonates low solubility). Sadly, the tea SWIM used for the carbonate wasn't as clean as the lye one (it was left over), and so SWIM wasn't able to filter anything out very well. He did run it through a filter and didn't see any large crystals, but this may have been due to the dirtiness of the solution providing smaller nucleation sites for small crystals, rather than the relatively particulate-free solution forcing the DMT to crystallize with itself.

As far as yields, SWIM is in the process of doing a highly-standardized tea extraction with 100g of MHRB and known amounts of water. He will offer the data once it is available, so that people can do other extractions using the same masses, but with different methods (SWIM doesn't have any of the other solvents).

-- Wanderer
 
I'm all for learning new things and I've done my fair share of reading, but it's mostly out of fear of the harsher chemicals in other teks that's kept me from trying spice extraction. I would still like to learn and try other teks someday, especially the food safe ones, but having something simpler to work with for my first extraction would be nice and removes some of the initial anxiety.

I have great respect for spice and realize it takes some preparation, learning, and dedication to understand and work with it, but I'm just a bit uneasy with the idea of meddling with certain chemicals, especially if I can avoid most of them altogether. Not to mention along with the simplicity of this tek it also seems to involve less suspicious activity (especially if I have some curry for dinner 😉).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to SWIY's next tea extraction, some yield info and more data would be awesome. Kudos.
 
Wanderer said:
Like astralpixels, there are many who are daunted by the use of volatile, flammable, or toxic chemicals in the conventional extraction methods, and are thus excluded from access to such a profound transformational tool

-- Wanderer
Click to expand...

To this I will add that there is at least one country (Romania) -and probably many other 'poor' countries- where it is impossible for common folk to find the necessary pure clean solvants. Believe one who has searched long and fruitlessly...

This kind of tek will surely help the spreading of spice over a good slice of space!
 
Wanderer said:
So for your questions endlessness, SWIM has tried Sodium Carbonate (cold) and didn't really get any expulsion of liquids. If SWIM did, they sank to the bottom of solution. Strangely, he added lye to the left-over solution and didn't really see any dmt float to the top. So SWIM expects Na2CO3 did, to a degree, liberate the DMT from its salt forms, but the solution wasn't dense enough to keep it afloat (probably owing to Sodium Carbonates low solubility). Sadly, the tea SWIM used for the carbonate wasn't as clean as the lye one (it was left over), and so SWIM wasn't able to filter anything out very well. He did run it through a filter and didn't see any large crystals, but this may have been due to the dirtiness of the solution providing smaller nucleation sites for small crystals, rather than the relatively particulate-free solution forcing the DMT to crystallize with itself.

-- Wanderer
Click to expand...

hmm, so so far inconclusive regarding sodium carb heh?

Was there any change in color when adding sodium carb? did you filter the brew before adding it ?

Maybe it would be better to make a saturated sodium carb solution isntead of adding sodium carb straight away? or maybe warming up the whole thing to add sodium carb, then letting it cool slowly and eventually putting in the fridge to help dmt crystalize? Also for sure better to have the brew as filtered/clean as possible before precipitating.

Maybe other people will test this sometime soon, I hope so!

Thanks a lot for the work!
 
Rooftop said:
To this I will add that there is at least one country (Romania) -and probably many other 'poor' countries- where it is impossible for common folk to find the necessary pure clean solvants. Believe one who has searched long and fruitlessly...

This kind of tek will surely help the spreading of spice over a good slice of space!
Click to expand...
This strikes me as a much more legitimate reason than any of those that try to make points about fear of the procedure or working with "dangerous" chems. As long as you take proper safety precautions, none of them are especially dangerous. I mean, there's still lye here, which imo, is the most dangerous of any chem used in the extraction process (and again, it's not all that dangerous when handled properly, with the right safety precautions).

This is great work wanderer, thanks for making this thread. I look forward to hearing about yields :D
 
Updates abound!

Endlessness -- I recently checked on the carbonate batch. Crystals are actually forming now (perhaps I didn't wait long enough). So my new conclusion is that the carbonate was just not sufficient at fully freebasing the DMT, and that adding lye managed to get it to be released. The carbonate did change the color (and made it creamy-colored), but I suppose perhaps it wasn't strong enough. Someone will have to retry this, though, because my batch was fully of extraneous variables. Another thing to consider when redoing this is to heat up the tea to help augment carbonate solubility -- I remember one other member saying this was essential for using carbonate to freebase, in his experience.

To All -- I definitely like the point that, in many areas of the world, pure solvents are hard to come by. The benefit of this method is that it can, quite literally, be performed in the middle of no-where with nothing but some cloth and some wood ash. Lye can easily be made by soaking ash in water, and a filtration system can be made with something as simple as old (clean) cloth.

Regarding the new 100g batch, everything seems to be going well. I boiled the final tea volume down to around 350 mL, and just added lye. Within a few minutes, I can already see the DMT floating atop the solution.

One interesting thing to note using this method is that it takes very little lye compared to other methods. I used maybe 50-60 grams (5 rounded teaspoons?) before I didn't need anymore. Of course, the method I am using to eyeball how much lye is actually needed is to look for when adding more stops changing the color of solution (to cream). I will have to do further analysis to determine just how much lye is actually needed. After this batch is done crystallizing, I will add more lye to see if anything happens.

-- Wanderer
 
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