What about 'religious groups' versus 'individual practices'

[kiang]

I guess all we here use plants and their extracts for personal growth, targeting maybe the spiritual and mystical.

I have been in various religious groups like Santo Daime and UDV, both from Brazil. I came now to the realization that my way is practicing the use of those powerful plants in a solitary, individual way.

There is certainly advantages and disadvantages in each way one uses entheogens, individual or, in groups with a certain setting and background.

From the top of my head i could say that using entheogens in groups gave me courage to explore this realm, because i was chicken to use them alone. Had the advantage to feel more open with persons in general. I do think that there is a certain gathering of collective energies to make change happening in a way, maybe. There is a sense of brotherhood of mankind, that is noble and nice. There is convergence in actions for social awareness.

On the other hand, for me, i see disadvantages, like restrain from being who one is. For instance, there is a lot of stress to impose certain rules. There is openmindness, but not really, because of all the imagery of the history background, be it the founders of the religions or their lore. The entheogen experience is a very personal one, the insights very personal (even when we think they apply to others). So i tend now to see it irrevelant for sharing the experience (verbally and in actions) by being there in person. Sometimes i needed to howl but i couldnt because i needed to sing. Sometimes i needed to just be outside in the wild, but i couldnt because i needed to be at the circle. It is like, i could go much deeper in the 'rabits hole' but i was always pulled back up, this was a let down, because the experience would be much richer.

So in conclusion, i feel like in groups its OK for 'learning' how to navigate those realms. But once one knows reasonably well how to navigate them alone.. then alone it is. Because it gets much deeper and 'meaningfuller', at least for me now.

I would be terribly grateful to know what you think of this and if you had some issues about chosing your way. If you go or went regularly to religious groups mentioned or others, please share your views on the advantages and disadvantages. If you do it alone please share your views on those advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Make Shift]

To each, their own.
But IMO, doing anything greatly increases the chances of going way deeper into the rabbit hole since there are absolutely no distractions. But we all increase the risk of doing something out of fear when alone. It's safer to have someone watch over you, or a sitter or atleast do it with someone we have connection with or someone we can trust, so just incase we get stuck somewhere the other person could be our navigator persay.
Not much experience with dmt....but with a lot of experience with lsd, I can safely say all my mind blowingly intensely beautiful experiences have been alone. I would assume the same to be with any other substance especially something so powerful as dmt. Also most lessons I have learnt are when I have been alone.

 

[kiang]

But we all increase the risk of doing something out of fear when alone. It's safer to have someone watch over you, or a sitter or atleast do it with someone we have connection with or someone we can trust, so just incase we get stuck somewhere the other person could be our navigator persay.

Completely agree, a sitter is important especially if the dose is bigger as usual, enough for entering a new territory. Also in case a sitter is absent, making sure nothing is near that could harm oneself in an accident, is useful precaution. I like to do it alone in the nature..

Apart of this it occured to me that in religious groups normaly the setting is always the same. So only what i take in my mind will influence most the experience. But i find it richer when the settings change, like for instance, being in a mountain plateou at night, inside a forest at day, being in a garden park with people nearby or just in bed at bedtime till dawn. Very different experiences in my experience, on contrary the repetitive setting of the religious groups. But of course, to each their own. Whatever works best to each..

 

[Koornut]

For instance, there is a lot of stress to impose certain rules. There is open-mindedness, but not really, because of all the imagery of the history background, be it the founders of the religions or their lore.

I totally agree with this, the only rules that need to be followed are those that apply to the health and safety of yourself and those around you. But perhaps there are those who thrive in a hierarchical environment as you would find in formal religious settings, each to their own i guess.
We are well past the days in which information on these subjects is solely available to us through the typical 'Guru' channels: Like what happened during the first psychedelic revolution, which would commonly lead good natured, well meaning folk into mind control cults and the likes.

NoooooooooooooGuuuuuuuuuuuuu(L)Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuu... is a good defensive/offensive mantra to use daily, against yourself and against others. :thumb_up:

 

[travsha]

Not all groups impose rules and restrictions so much. Religious groups certainly would though. That is kinda the bread and butter of what religions are all about - teaching dogma and restrictions.

I would never sit with UDV or Daime. UDV has racist and homophobic origin stories and dogma and is way to egotistical and secretive. I have no interest in Daime because I have no interest in Catholocism, or African Tribal religions or spirit possession, or large groups or so much rigidity and structure or singing songs about Jesus.

But I love sitting in ceremony with groups. Usually 2-15 people. Anything more then that seems unwise to me, and honestly distracting too. Seems hard to connect with the medicine with so many people around.

I remember a recent Ayahuasquero I drank with. Before ceremony I asked him if I could sing a song or two after ceremony - as I dont want to interupt his work during ceremony but would love to sing. He replied "Sing during ceremony! I dont want you to repress yourself or hold back, I want you to express yourself and celebrate life!" Exact type of person I personally want to host my group ceremonies!

 

[BongWizard]

He replied "Sing during ceremony! I dont want you to repress yourself or hold back, I want you to express yourself and celebrate life!" Exact type of person I personally want to host my group ceremonies!

Well said sir. Well said.

I, personally, like to walk the road alone. I feel it allows freedom and fluidity this way. While I won't deny there are benefits of having an experienced guide, I prefer to fly solo (in fact, I rarely smoalk even with my experienced friends).

While I appreciate the efforts of the UDV, SD, etc. I couldn't ever journey with a group who builds a belief structure around something so enigmatic as DMT. The reason being, it is something different to everyone. Every experience is different, even for the veterans among us. To try to build a cohesive system of universal faith around the experiences this drug (for lack of a better word) incites is an effort in futility.

My rules for a fulfilling DMT experience; centre yourself beforehand, know your path and enjoy the ride
And, obviously, stay safe.

 

[kiang]

We are well past the days in which information on these subjects is solely available to us through the typical 'Guru' channels: Like what happened during the first psychedelic revolution, which would commonly lead good natured, well meaning folk into mind control cults and the likes.

NoooooooooooooGuuuuuuuuuuuuu(L)Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuu... is a good defensive/offensive mantra to use daily, against yourself and against others. :thumb_up:

Hahah.. but i wonder that, as you said, some people need to flourish in a environment like that, if that is as useful as they generally believe it is for the change of human societies and whatnot, as they like to proclaim (in my knowledge, more SD). Most of the time the group i know wants to reach the high standing fruit instead the low standing fruit. Its like having the ambition to expand the group to be bigger and more far reaching, instead of having it low profile with not so big 'world domination' ambition. And i just dont know, but it kind like saddens me a bit.. I hope im not offending anyone by being open about my feelings here.

Not all groups impose rules and restrictions so much.

But I love sitting in ceremony with groups. Usually 2-15 people. Anything more then that seems unwise to me, and honestly distracting too. Seems hard to connect with the medicine with so many people around.

I remember a recent Ayahuasquero I drank with. Before ceremony I asked him if I could sing a song or two after ceremony - as I dont want to interupt his work during ceremony but would love to sing. He replied "Sing during ceremony! I dont want you to repress yourself or hold back, I want you to express yourself and celebrate life!" Exact type of person I personally want to host my group ceremonies!

I can relate to that. Little managable groups. I have done that with 2 other friends and we used san pedro. We stablished a meeting point and every 1h we would meet there. We agreed to do it like this so we wouldnt inluence the exeprience with one anothers so that the personal resolution to whatever would be most direct and pure from the inner self. At the decending curve of effects we stayed together and just wow (none of use had any talent to sing ). About the Ayahuasquero, that is so nice to not hold back.

I couldn't ever journey with a group who builds a belief structure around something so enigmatic as DMT.

I find this to be so true, how can one build an objective and rigid structure around something that is so intimate, personal and as you say enigmatic?! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.