Sorry, but I find your approach to be too mental and too focused on proving your point that my framing is somehow flawed. I extended an olive branch to you V, and rather than accepting it and meeting me with even the smallest degree of understanding and humility, you persist with your critical thinking. I don't have time for it and frankly its boring. You are welcome to comment on anything I post from here on out, but don't expect a reply from me as I don't find your approach to be productive.
All well stated in my opinion Blig, and can't argue with many of your points, in fact I learned some key things about how you and perhaps others view the Mayans and indigenous people of Central and South America. Having spent a good deal of time living near and with the Lowland and Highland Maya and with other tribes like the Chichimec, Otomi, and Nagual descendants of the Toltec’s, it is a fact that some partake in full-on modern modalities, others live in clay huts with satellite dishes, but many also live in remote jungle villages or high mountainous regions that take days travel to. In some regions, the native language of these tribes is forbidden by the governments in control, (parents are imprisoned if their children speak their native tongue in schools) whereas tribes people in more remote regions are free to speak as they like, and many even refuse to speak Spanish at all.
Greetings double! and thanks for your question. It is correct that Ayahuasca originated in South America, but sometime mid century these specicif ceremonies migrated north to Costa Rica, Guatamala, Yucatan, and Mexico. However the use of DMT compounds in ceremonies nearly identical to those of the south have been conducted for centuries by the Maya, Aztecs, Toltecs, and the mother civilization, the Olmecs, (around 1000 BC to 500 CE). Anadenanthera peregrina (Yopo), Acacia species, Mimosa tenuiflora, and a host of others that no one but the remote tribes of the jungles are privy to.
I don't doubt for a moment that many of them are.
Probably there is a common thread from the Paleolithic. I don't doubt that, that thread also exists elsewhere. But it has suffered many modifications, to pretend otherwise is to have a romantic idea of the past. I'm not an expert in the Mayans, but I do know that different Mayan cities had different traditions. And that Mayan traditions and beliefs have changed along their very long history, that includes several collapses. Many practices are dead, most notably human sacrifices. When did it become clear that some practices were "true" and some weren't? To our Western values it's "clear" that there's a moral difference between taking psychedelics and throwing someone to die on a cenote. But that's precisely from a framework that was alien to the old Mayans. When you pick and choose from tradition based on a different moral framework, you're modifying that tradition. I'm not saying that it's something inherently negative or positive, and it's not unique to Mexico at all, but a global phenomenon. But it can't be ignored.
I don't think we disagree that much. For what I have seen (not in Central America, that's true) there are reasons to think that some extremely ancient spiritual practices, themes and archetypes have been passed on in ways that may change in external details but share a common core. Those practices and core ideas tend to have survived better in isolated, rural areas. And even inside "mainstream" religions there have been branches that preserve some of that core.
Yes, I don't think we are too far off in terms of this convo, thanks. I will however correct you about an assumption you made . . . I never stated that the Curanderos are the "final authority on the DMT experience." Please show me where that statement is made? The title of my post was "How do the Curanderos think about the DMT experience," not "The Curandero's are the final authority on the DMT experience." And for whatever it's worth, what "comes across" does so with two connection points - the sender and the receiver. The actual content of what travels across doesn't automatically carry what the sender intended, it could also be how the reciever interprets it from their "framing" as it were. More later, gotta run. And thanks for this dialogue, I find it more encouraging than some others in terms of being open to new ways of viewing the DMT experience. Blessings!
I've not come across any ceremonial activities that utilize Bana, although I do believe it grows in Central America. I've heard of some shamanic fusion curanderos who use it, but I've not come across any myself. Likewise, while alkaloids such as Mimosa tenuiflora, Acacia species, and Virola do not appear to have an "ancient" history with Mayan curanderos specifically, they have been and still are being used in Guatamala and southern regions of Mexico in medicine ceremonies. There are, I suspect MANY ingestible DMT active plants that either are not blocked by inhibitors or simply do not require them. I'm planning another expedition to the Highlands in the Fall to the town of Momostenango to get a blessing for my Tzolking Calendar book I will be publishing early next year and will follow up on some leads for plants that have not been revealed to the world as of yet. Appreciate your dialogue Jamie.
You are right on that. I wanted to say more that that's how it comes across in general, and that that's why some people may react negatively to it (that's why I said that you seem to claim it). But it's true that you didn't say it, and I'm happy that it has been clarified.
Yes, I agree. That's why I was pointing that out: if the receiver explains what he thinks he's receiving and the sender sees that it's not what he intended to send, then it can be amended by both sides. It's not necessarily about anyone being at fault for it.
Who wouldn't?
BTW . . . thanks much for providing this portal for sharing and learning. I'll do all I can to try to convey to folks here that while I've been blessed to gain extraordinary insight into the Curandero world, I don't think they are superior or the holders of ultimate truth, and I don't believe I'm an expert, just a traveler who's taken time to drop to his knees before those who are masters of the plants.Who wouldn't?
Greetings Ruffles. Not a lame question at all, appreciate you asking. The majority of elders and healers I've encountered conduct all their journeys within a cultural and ceremonial context that includes everything from cutting the limbs and leaves of selected plants, preparing them for extraction, purifying the space in which "engagement with the ancestors" as they put it will take place. So those who participate in the experiences are involved in the entire process. Pure DMT is mostly not a thing in the places I've visited. There have been a few younger Curanderos who are internet-wise who've experimented with crystal forms, but what they've shared about it is kind of humorous. . . "The sacred plants are like beautiful cosmologically-blessed women . . . why would you only want ten minutes with her when you can have her for hours?" Apparently, they're not up on the DMTx wave yet. LOL
"Ri K'olik Q'iij Chi Kechaj!"
The Brazilians are indeed passonate exploritory souls! The black sand beaches and massive starlit nights must be contributers. Hit me up if you learn anything.
I must not be a very good student, as the only thing I learned from this person is that seeking to impose a hierarchical framework (with oneself at the top, naturally) on what is essentially a non-hierarchical community, makes one look foolish and out of touch, especially when claiming special shamanic knowledge.@Ajqij, you were a good teacher and, through your example, showed much more than your words ever conveyed.
May only good come to you
