What is the DMT experience like for the blind?

[*oneironaut*]

I am very curious to hear what the DMT experience is like for someone who is blind. Does anyone have any insight as to what the visionary aspects of hyperspace is like for someone who lacks external sight? Even of greater interest would be the difference for the quality of the experience between someone blind from birth vs someone who lost their sight later in life.

Since the visionary aspect of DMT is such a prominent characterisitc of the trip, it would be quite interesting to know how much of it is tied to our eyes vs our pineal gland or "third eye"

Can anyone weigh in on this????

 

[kenji]

I have the same question in my mind, but i've got no answer at the moment..
If a blind person from the birth will see these "aliens" or cities etc, i really think this
can be a strong proof of the fact that the hyperspace is really out of our mind..

 

[VoidTraveler]

This is a question that's recurring every few months and many people are clearly very interested in the experience from a blind person. IF you Google "DMT experience blind" you'll find many threads on various forums but noone ever has a conclusive answer to this.

I think the only proper way to do this is to find a few blind test subjects willing to participate and share their experiences.

 

[*oneironaut*]

If a blind person from the birth will see these "aliens" or cities etc, i really think this
can be a strong proof of the fact that the hyperspace is really out of our mind..

I have struggle with this notion for a while, not just with DMT but dreams, I have had many lucid dreams and OBE's and experiencially, especially the OBE's, are as real as real can be. But the fact (if it is indeed the case, which it seems with dreams at least) that someone who has never had the memory of sight has no visuals during a DMT trip or during REM sleep leads me to believe our consciousness is the sum of our memories and not part of a greater universal consciousness....which to me would be utterly dissapointing. But, I suupose it doesn't really matter because if either is correct..in the end I'll either be pleasantly surprised or I won't have a consciousness to know the difference. I'm still banking on the former tho

 

[River of Thoughts]

http://www.ted.com/talks/oliver_sacks_what_hallucination_reveals_about_our_minds.html

After watching this video, I could say that it is very probable that a blind person can have a full DMT experience.

 

[Eliyahu]

I have heard that LSD can help blind people to visualize brilliant colors and archatecture.

I imagine DMT would be similar.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

I have often wondered this myself. While I don't know what would happen for one who was blind from birth, I do think one who has lost their sight would probably see things like anyone. It gives me hope that if I was ever blinded, I still may be able to travel to the other worlds and see the unspeakable beauty. It would be even more special if I hadn't seen anything for a while.

 

[universecannon]

Theres been quite a bit of discussion on this topic on the web over the years but i'm not sure if anyone has found out for certain..The experience might be very different (or perhaps non-visual altogether) depending on whether or not they've been blind since birth or not.

i have a hard time thinking that anyone could properly inhale 60mg of dmt in one hit and not see SOMETHING..But even if they weren't to see anything, it seems they would certainly still have a very intense experience in other regards

 

[Muskogee Herbman]

What if you were always blind?
The TED Talks refers to people who had vision at some point.
What if vision is necessary to develop the facial recognition parts of the fusiform gyrus?

Anyway I found this

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/cppdf/iama_blind_person_from_birth_who_has_used

 

[benzyme]

I have heard that LSD can help blind people to visualize brilliant colors and archatecture.

I imagine DMT would be similar.

this makes sense...

i'd imagine visuals have nothing to do with photoreceptors, optic radiation, or the LGN.
they're probably directly imprinted onto Brodmann area 17 (V1).

 

[anrchy]

I have heard that LSD can help blind people to visualize brilliant colors and archatecture.

I imagine DMT would be similar.

this makes sense...

i'd imagine visuals have nothing to do with photoreceptors, optic radiation, or the LGN.
they're probably directly imprinted onto Brodmann area 17 (V1).

I learn something everyday, even if I don't fully understand it.

I swear benzyme, you could completely make something up and word it in this same way and I would think it was real.

 

[anrchy]

Theres been quite a bit of discussion on this topic on the web over the years but i'm not sure if anyone has found out for certain..The experience might be very different (or perhaps non-visual altogether) depending on whether or not they've been blind since birth or not.

i have a hard time thinking that anyone could properly inhale 60mg of dmt in one hit and not see SOMETHING..But even if they weren't to see anything, it seems they would certainly still have a very intense experience in other regards

Ok this may answer this age old question...

Q:
Do blind people dream? If they do, can they "see" in their dreams?
- Anjali Sharma (age 14)
Leaside High, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
A:
Anjali -

I considered answering your question myself, but decided that you might prefer an answer straight from the source. So I passed your question on to my friend, Laurie, who has been blind since she was fairly young. Here's what she had to say:

" Yes, blind people do dream. What they see in their dreams depends on how much they could ever see. If someone has been totally blind since birth, they only have auditory dreams. If someone such as I, has had a measure of sight, then that person dreams with that measure of sight. I still dream as though I can see, colors included. For people I've met since, their faces are just blurs or how I imagine they look. To me, someone like my mother looks forever 30. "

Thanks Laurie!

-Tamara

Link <--- click here for the full site

So would it be safe to say that this could be considered the same for DMT? Possibly. If the DMT experience for the blind was indeed visual I would still doubt that it was proof that its an actual place. Not enough is known about it. What would be a really good study, is while a blind-since-birth subject was on DMT, a brain scan to see how the visual cortex was being effected (if they did have visuals).

I find it interesting, that a blind person has auditory dreams. This I had not heard of until now.

 

[LiquidGlass]

That would be assuming the visions one sees while on DMT come from our own brain, which many people might disagree with

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

Anyway I found this

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/cppdf/iama_blind_person_from_birth_who_has_used

that is incredible!

 

[anrchy]

dang it that guy was gonna give him free DMT but he hasn't posted in 2 years. Maybe the DMT was such an awesome experience he doesn't care about computers anymore

That would be assuming the visions one sees while on DMT come from our own brain, which many people might disagree with

Well it could, I assume any visions you see are still processed from your visual cortex. Theres also the possibility that your mind cant see what you haven't already perceived. So even if Hyperspace were an actual place you travel too, you could be blind in both places. Technically the visions are coming from your brain, whether they originate from your brain doesnt really matter, as your brain still has to process the visuals you are experiencing, hence it probably wouldn't prove anything if the blind saw the same things as us or not.

Both the links to the blind people that took hallucinogens seem to have similiar experiences.

 

[Global]

dang it that guy was gonna give him free DMT but he hasn't posted in 2 years. Maybe the DMT was such an awesome experience he doesn't care about computers anymore

That would be assuming the visions one sees while on DMT come from our own brain, which many people might disagree with

Well it could, I assume any visions you see are still processed from your visual cortex. Theres also the possibility that your mind cant see what you haven't already perceived. So even if Hyperspace were an actual place you travel too, you could be blind in both places. Technically the visions are coming from your brain, whether they originate from your brain doesnt really matter, as your brain still has to process the visuals you are experiencing, hence it probably wouldn't prove anything if the blind saw the same things as us or not.

Both the links to the blind people that took hallucinogens seem to have similiar experiences.

For those who are congenitally blind, the visual cortex is generally completely afunctional.

 

[Vodsel]

Makes sense to look at how are blind people's dreams.

NY Times Article.

For people with normal vision, dreaming is intensely visual. The dream state typically involves vivid scenes and imagery, much of it drawing upon our daytime experiences and concerns (whether conscious or not). Auditory stimulation plays a small role, and the other senses, like taste and smell, are virtually absent.

But studies led by a psychologist at the University of Hartford show that for the blind, depending on when in life they lost their sense of sight, the reverse seems to be true. People born without the ability to see report no visual imagery in their dreams, but they do experience a heightening of taste, touch and smell. They also report a higher percentage of dreams that involve mishaps related to traveling or transportation, perhaps reflecting one of their biggest daytime concerns: safely finding their way around.

Although individual experiences vary, researchers say people who go blind before age 5 rarely experience visual imagery in their dreams. But those who lose their vision after age 5 often continue to see in their dreams, though the frequency and clarity diminish over time.

The Dreams of Blind Men and Women, University of Hartford paper.

 

[daedaloops]

Since the visionary aspect of DMT is such a prominent characterisitc of the trip, it would be quite interesting to know how much of it is tied to our eyes vs our pineal gland or "third eye"

Well atleast for me the visionary aspect is only prominent on lower doses, but when you cross a certain border all your senses kinda merge into a ball, shrink into a singularity, and then explode like a "big bang" of unlimited experience, where concepts like human bodily senses are completely trivial. So IMO, a blind person could easily have a full-blown DMT experience.

Anyway I found this
http://www.reddit.com/r/...rom_birth_who_has_used/

Thanks for this! And there was a real gem in the comments section:

Red is hot and spicy, like standing too close to the fire. Orange is warm and smooth, a velvet curtain heated by the sun. Yellow is buttery and rich, like sunshine on your face. Green is earthy and comforting, the smell of fresh pine needles. Blue is cool and crisp, like dipping your foot in a lake in October. Purple is dark and rich, a baritone sax bellowing jazz. Brown is healing and ancient, the smell of earth on the forest floor.

I was trippin last night and this friggin description came to life like a symphony of synaesthetic fireworks! :lol:

 

[benzyme]

Makes sense to look at how are blind people's dreams.

NY Times Article.

For people with normal vision, dreaming is intensely visual. The dream state typically involves vivid scenes and imagery, much of it drawing upon our daytime experiences and concerns (whether conscious or not). Auditory stimulation plays a small role, and the other senses, like taste and smell, are virtually absent.

But studies led by a psychologist at the University of Hartford show that for the blind, depending on when in life they lost their sense of sight, the reverse seems to be true. People born without the ability to see report no visual imagery in their dreams, but they do experience a heightening of taste, touch and smell. They also report a higher percentage of dreams that involve mishaps related to traveling or transportation, perhaps reflecting one of their biggest daytime concerns: safely finding their way around.

Although individual experiences vary, researchers say people who go blind before age 5 rarely experience visual imagery in their dreams. But those who lose their vision after age 5 often continue to see in their dreams, though the frequency and clarity diminish over time.

The Dreams of Blind Men and Women, University of Hartford paper.

can't say this is a surprise...
dreams are products of memories (acetylcholine is a primary active neurotransmitter in REM sleep), and those memories are tied to the senses, a rearrangement of everything that's been perceived.

people who're not blind just happen to attribute ~ 90% of everything they perceive with vision.

 

[benzyme]

That would be assuming the visions one sees while on DMT come from our own brain, which many people might disagree with

they could disagree all they want, but what reasoning do they give?
the visual cortex is the proverbial picture screen, and it's in the brain, not the eyes.