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why do so many dmt users believe in 2012?

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biopsylo said:
I really like Dennis' perspective. i can just imagine those two brothers down in the amazon, Dennis smashing watches....

note also;
he says in the interview that he DOES believe in the alignment, ---- "it is built into celestial mechanics, these conjunctions will take place, no doubt about it" ---- just that he doesn't think anything spectacular will occur because of it.


Nice interview with D McKenna. I am glad he was honest and straight forward about the myth.

See!!! 2012 is a myth!
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so what is the myth? that the mayan calendar ends?; that there happens to be a extremely rare astrological alignment at the same time?; or that we are going to transcend matter and enter the imagination?:) :) :)
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Agree.

Astrological? I thought rather astronomical.

2012 denying is a fucking myth.
 
note also;
he says in the interview that he DOES believe in the alignment, ---- "it is built into celestial mechanics, these conjunctions will take place, no doubt about it" ---- just that he doesn't think anything spectacular will occur because of it.
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All he is saying that yes there is procession the earth does go up and down over the galactic center (although this point is somewhat arbitrary). Anyone who denies that is denying a basic fact of how things move in our galaxy.

so what is the myth? that the mayan calendar ends?; that there happens to be a extremely rare astrological alignment at the same time?; or that we are going to transcend matter and enter the imagination?Smile Smile Smile
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The myth is 1. the earth will end 2. something major will change in peoples consciousness and make the world a better place.
 
burnt said:
The myth is 1. the earth will end 2. something major will change in peoples consciousness and make the world a better place.
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Those are the general "myths" associated with 2012. The first is fear mongering at its worst and highly absurd, but don't you think the second his highly possible if not necessairly probable? I can think of several things that could happen off the top of my head that would make #2 true.

In fact my consciousness has already majorly changed over the last year and I am attempting to make the world a better place. The change is already happening, it just hasn't caught up to everyone its meant to yet. Just like a bell curve, some get it on the way up, most at the top of the bell, and some will get it on the way down or not at all.
 
I agree with Dennis Mckenna where he says that he thinks Terrence was right with his idea about complexity and how technological progress is speeding up and that it will end up changing things..but I also agree that we will wake up on dec 21 2012 and it will look the same as it did on dec 20 2012...this thing I am talking about is gradual and already happening.

This is why I think we would get more out of this conversation if we focussed on the more tangible things like technology and culture..technology WILL change culture..it always does. It is no secret that technological advancement is happening much faster now than it ever has, and that is only increasing...I bet that in 20 years from now our culture will have changed more becasue of new technologies than it has in the last 80-100 years..these are things people could not have said 200 years ago..so that does say something about the times we are living in.

Doesnt mean the world will end though. I also believe what Dennis says about alot of this 2012 stuff just sort of promoting irresponcibility..I think that maybe things could change for the better in the next 5 or 10 years..but it will take real work..

also things like the ozone hole, the dying oceans, melting ice caps, climate change..moon landing etc..these all things of this century..way bigger and more significant on a global scale than most things in all the ther centuries..so there is SOMETHING about the times we are living in.

There are so many reasons to leave out the 2012 horror stories etc and just look at the facts of out time..it's a very interesting time to walk the planet earth either way.
 
Well I guess I feel that the changes you guys are talking about have more to do with technological innovation in communications as well as a growing population. More people are more aware of more stuff and each other then EVER before in human history. This will definitely have and already is having a major impact on the world. But it has nothing to do with the normal cycles of our planet and solar system and everything to do with our species development.
 
Well I guess I feel that the changes you guys are talking about have more to do with technological innovation in communications as well as a growing population. More people are more aware of more stuff and each other then EVER before in human history. This will definitely have and already is having a major impact on the world. But it has nothing to do with the normal cycles of our planet and solar system and everything to do with our species development.
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but how can you be sure? people have felt connections to this type of thing for millennia. what has science offered that says anything different?
if we came from the stars, wouldn't that mean that we have a relationship to the cosmos? i just dont see the disconnect.
 
I definatily think that certain solar events effect us..how could they not? just as peoples bones get brittle in the winter and people get more sickness when it's cold and damp out..and allergy seasons, the moons effect on tides etc..these types of connection must extend farther out that we currently understand.

Doesnt mean I put any faith in newpaper horoscopes and things like that..way way to generalized..but I do think certain things out there effect us..maybe not to the same degree as things here on earth..
 
but how can you be sure? people have felt connections to this type of thing for millennia. what has science offered that says anything different?
if we came from the stars, wouldn't that mean that we have a relationship to the cosmos? i just dont see the disconnect.
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The atoms that make us up largely formed from the nuclear furnace of stars and super nova. That has nothing to do with astrological predictions however.

What about the alignment of stars would be significant enough to effect human consciousness to such a large extent? Gravity? Cosmic rays? If that were so we would already have noticed the evidence would be all around. But its not because it doesn't seem to have such a significant effect.

I definatily think that certain solar events effect us..how could they not? just as peoples bones get brittle in the winter and people get more sickness when it's cold and damp out..and allergy seasons, the moons effect on tides etc..these types of connection must extend farther out that we currently understand.
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This is vague. The first things you mention yes they are true but we have explanations for all these things. There is no link nor explanation that the alignment of stars has anything to do with human behavoir.
 
yeah I wasnt referring to stars persay, more solar activity and lunar effects etc..maybe planetary as well..things closer to earth..these may be of minor concequence but I think that they can have some effect on us..maybe not to the extent as some people would like to think..
 
yeah I wasnt referring to stars persay, more solar activity and lunar effects etc..maybe planetary as well..things closer to earth..these may be of minor concequence but I think that they can have some effect on us..maybe not to the extent as some people would like to think..
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Cool I see what you mean and I agree. I don't mean to suggest that things in the sky have no effect on us. Even the weather can have a profound effect on peoples mood. When its rainy shitty and dark all the time many people get sad. When its sunny and warm many people get happy. There are reasons for these things. Circadian rythms all this stuff is real.

What I guess I am arguing against is myths like "when galactic alignment occurs the pineal gland will start to produce enough dmt to enlighten mankind". Stuff like.
 
burnt said:
Well I guess I feel that the changes you guys are talking about have more to do with technological innovation in communications as well as a growing population. More people are more aware of more stuff and each other then EVER before in human history. This will definitely have and already is having a major impact on the world. But it has nothing to do with the normal cycles of our planet and solar system and everything to do with our species development.
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They are all interwoven together. The internet is just the largest and most easily definable transition that is occuring, the rudimentary formation of our collective consciousness as a species. The more people are aware of things, the more likely and quicker change can occur. Ever increasting rate of novelty, and the change in consiousness is here. One can accept it, or not. But you will not be able to ingnore it forever.

It may not have anything to do with cycles of time, but it could also have everything to do with cycles of time. We could be at the culmination of a cycle where rapid change is the natural evolutionary drive to a new mode of being. Or the Maya, Hopi, Hindu, Egyptian, Celtic/Druidic, Judiac, Christian, African, Aborriginal, and other prophetic traditions could all be wrong.

You are correct, the awareness factor is the greate4st it has been in history, and this awareness just happens to coincide with numerous prophecies, both direct and indirect that point to this time in history. It could all be a giant coincidence that this increased awareness, quantum leap in technology/consciousness matches up with prophetic predictions in some cases thousands of years old. Or...it is also possible that, somehow, people in the past had insight into when this transition would manifest itself in our history. They point to this point we are living in now, and this is when something is happening. To specify a particular date when change will miracously happen instantaneously is misleading. It is the period around that date when the change will occur, lets say 5 years on either side of it, therefore 2007-2017 would be the period. I personally think the world of 2017 will be alient to us, as we would be to the world in 1750.

People who have made more than a cursory look into and subsequently seriously contemplated the clues left by many different traditions find the signs everywhere. They can feel the change brewing, it is a tangible feeling, hard to describe. Some are awake, many still slumber on the edge of awareness...
 
The internet is just the largest and most easily definable transition that is occuring, the rudimentary formation of our collective consciousness as a species.
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This assumes collective consciousness is a real thing. Personally I don't buy any of Jung's collective unconscious theories. I think they are deeply flawed.

Or the Maya, Hopi, Hindu, Egyptian, Celtic/Druidic, Judiac, Christian, African, Aborriginal, and other prophetic traditions could all be wrong.
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All these cultures have vague prophecies about the future. None correspond to 2012 except the Mayan. But there is not evidence the Mayan's thought anything special would happen. There is NO evidence for that except what a few fringe scholars claim.

Why do you just automatically believe prophecies by all these cultures anyway? Some have completely obnoxious prophecies especially christian and jewish (both which have nothing to do with 2012). I don't know enough about the rest but I would never believe them. None of these people could predict the future no one can. If you have solid prophecies concerning this date show me the evidence. Show me the writing/artwork. Show me the scripture.

People who have made more than a cursory look into and subsequently seriously contemplated the clues left by many different traditions find the signs everywhere. They can feel the change brewing, it is a tangible feeling, hard to describe. Some are awake, many still slumber on the edge of awareness...
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When you want to see signs everywhere you do see signs everywhere. Its just like conspiracy theories.
 
When you want to see signs everywhere you do see signs everywhere. Its just like conspiracy theories.
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It's just like nearly everything else as well. Ever heard of the phrase "You see that which you are"? There is certaintly some truth to that. Something to keep in mind =)

As far as these 2012 prophecies goes I agree with burnt and fractal enchantment. But then again, we and all things have always been in change. This is nothing that has happened, or will happen, it is something that IS happening, and probably always has and always will in one way or the other.
 
burnt said:
When you want to see signs everywhere you do see signs everywhere. Its just like conspiracy theories.
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Fair enough.

But if you are going to claim that what the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves...then it must apply to any tyoe of belief system, not just "conspiracy" ones.
 
I dont know why people still go on about this even after we have been advised by myans in a position of knowledge that it really doesnt mean that much. So who knows better, the myan decendant with his lineage of knowledge or a heap of people in the west reading doomsday books written by idiots. I think deep down we just all love a good doomsday story but like other holywood catalysed myths (davinci code etc) the bigger it gets the more annoying it gets. When you hear about 2012 from some fool in front of you in a queue you know its gone too far. I think its a bit of a cop out to say this "change" will be gradual because then it can't be discredited or proven so whats the point in mentioning it, but then why such an exact date? All calendars end even ours. Why can't people see that.
 
For the record..I am a firm believe that this thing IS happening..whatever this thing is. I just prefer these days to distance myslef from the whole 2012 lable thing becasue it seems to go nowhere and alot of people seem to even put words into the mouths of the mayans..saying things that they dont say and even deny. I dont think something is going to happen..I think that we are already going through it..No other culture that we know of on earth has been in the situation that we are in now..

You dont have to look far to see that our culture is on the edge of something big, where ever is is that it is taking us..and from where I stand science and technology are the most obvious indicators of that(and I concider psychedelics a technology)..the things that WILL be possible when they can resequence photons and nanotechnology is a normal everyday thing will make us look like freakin cavemen technologically..I dunno who said it but someone said something like the technology of the future will be indistinguishable from magic..

I am all for conciousness expansion and everything and I think that through full expression of our DNA we can also do some amazing things but even with that..technology is what is now allowing us to even convieve of what DNA is and what it may be able to do..Our deveolpment as a culture seems to go hand in hand with the development of technology..

It's scary becasue if humanity thinks they can move into the next level of technological culture and not change themselves and start working together and focus on more things like love and compassion than shit we are all screwed..here in america it seems technology = weapons which is a dead end..

Does it really matter what it is that connects us? Whats the difference between something like telepathy as a biological thing or as some new technology if it brings us closer to each other..its not the methods that really matter in the end but the outcome..we always seem to fuck around and try to use technology against eachother but I am more optimistic about it lately becasue noe matter how hard governments try they are failing. Thinks like the internet are making communication much easier and making the real info more availbale and the government cannot do a damn thing about it seems. That should stand for something. Technology is not going away..and as much as the governments would like to use it for their own benifit it seems to be backfiring in so many ways..

If it were not for the internet and technology we would not be here to discuss this stuff at all..we would be limited to only people in our general area..but because of the net like minded people from anywhere on the planet can come together and discuss any damn thing they want, no matter how taboo..even in places like china, the interenet blocks to certain informaiton the goverment attempts to put up are always bypassed and the freeworld that is the internet lives on..

40 years ago when leary was talking about VR and technology, what we have today was nothing more than a pipe dream..and just look at where we are now.
 
I came up with something.

Maybe T McKenna made it all up knowing it would get people hyped and motivate them to do something. Maybe he even did this subconsciously without realizing it. If anything happens thats what it will be. No astrology no mythical hocus pocus. Just humans thinking its about time to do something for whatever mythological or truthful reasons they may have.
 
I think Mckenna looked around and saw how the world was changing..

Reading his books it becomes quite apparent he was very well versed in history, especially art hisotry..he was facinated with philosophical persuits and was well read in terms of the many great philosophers througout history..

Taking that into concideration..it's not hard to see why he took a look at the time we are in now and saw something new..something that sets the 20th century apart from anything that came before it..whatever that really means I dont think we can know just yet.

I dont think Mckenna was the type of person to come to conclusions..if you go read his books and listen carefully to what he was saying, he was telling people to NOT take his word for it..and I dont think he really took himself all that seriousily either..he was simply putting his ideas out there..

He really was a very open minded individual...people associate him with aliens and UFO type of people..but that was only ONE of the ideas he put out there as to what all this MAY be..he was just a free thinker with lots of ideas that he wanted to share with others and have them test them out.
 
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