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why do so many dmt users believe in 2012?

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biopsylo said:
"ok, so let me try to get this straight...you are posting ^this on a forum that is chalk full of threads from hundreds of members recalling smoking said tryptamines, blasting off into another dimension(hyperspace) and meeting alien entities, or what not.--Do you consider all these accounts to be misnomers as well?? :p sorry dude."



OF course I do I dont beleive in aliens from another dimension and anyone who does is still high. sorry If you think trip reports are factual events that occured life is going to get very confusing. They are however reflections of psyche the human experience.

What does it mean to be a human ie homo sapiens? That is my serious question and my life's mission. If I could assume every bit of well intended speculation is true I would be a pastor,priest or WTFE(what the fuck ever) wallowing in self generated BS and justifications that will embelish my chosen illusion.

I have been involved in contemplation concerning these things for a long time. The mystery of life is a wonderful thing. We should choose to learn and investigate in order to help ourselves and others. Fallacies benefit no one and merely fuel irrational prejudice.

It is just this that makes it a moral issue. What will you do spread well meaning assumptions that may invoke the placebo effect?
That is the easy lazy way real knowledge requires sacrifice, effort, failure. That is why it is devine not because some seeker gets a vibe in the mind. One must translate the meaning in a serious way. True faith does not come easy.

ringo star it dont come easy
It don't come easy,
You know it don't come easy.

It don't come easy,
You know it don't come easy.

Got to pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues,
And you know it don't come easy.
You don't have to shout or leap about,
You can even play them easy.

Forget about the past and all your sorrows,
The future won't last,
It will soon be over tomorrow.

I don't ask for much, i only want your trust,
And you know it don't come easy.
And this love of mine keeps growing all the time,
And you know it just ain't easy.

Open up your heart, let's come together,
Use a little love
And we will make it work out better.

Got to pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues,
And you know it don't come easy.
You don't have to shout or leap about,
You can even play them easy.

Peace, remember peace is how we make it,
Here within your reach
If you're big enough to take it.

I don't ask for much, i only want your trust,
And you know it don't come easy.
And this love of mine keeps growing all the time,
And you know it don't come easy.



Just because someone uses psychedelics it does not mean they believe the hallucinations are reality. There is no other place to discuss tryptamine use besides sites like this so I have to be here to continue my investigation.

I love the Nexus but will admit if there was a scientific site on psychedelics I most likely would have a new home:shock: My interest in psychology and human religious practices also makes it interesting to read the experiences of others. We are all most certainly intitled to interepet our experances any way we chose.

All my statements are my opinion that is subject to change with new facts. Who knows may be I will be reporting tomorrow that I met my first entity. A whole family of Aliens from another dimension and the really weird part was Terrance was with them:shock:

They laughed at me for what seemed like a eternity. I have changed my mind.:)


PEACE
MV
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Ayawasqero said:
Evidences of 2012 are absolutely everywhere. Take a good look around.
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I keep getting informations constantly about the 2012 out of, let´s say, ,dimethyltryptamine shining eternity´ down to time from my true pal, the N, N - dimethyltryptamine. He says the shit is real and´ll happen, regardless of everything. He calls me to connect me to himself, forever. Thx, D!

For further informations about the dimethyltryptamine-Eschaton (i.e., ,2012´, I refuse to banalize the ,end of the world´, for 2012 is just a date in Gregorian calendar) complex, please ask this psychedelic shaman. It´s free:
 
Ayawasqero said:
Evidences of 2012 are absolutely everywhere. Take a good look around.
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I keep getting informations constantly about the 2012 out of, let´s say, ,dimethyltryptamine shining eternity´ down to time from my true pal, the N, N - dimethyltryptamine. He says the shit is real and´ll happen, regardless of everything. He calls me to connect me to himself, forever. Thx, D!

For further informations about the dimethyltryptamine-Eschaton (i.e., ,2012´, I refuse to banalize the ,end of the world´, for 2012 is just a date in Gregorian calendar) complex, please ask the psychedelic shaman whose engraving below. It´s free. Or His Most Holy Heart. Or Your noble heart. It´s the best oracle of all times.

You know sometimes when I wake up in the middle of the night, realizing I attend eternity with God dwelling in, I want to evangelize. But I control over myself.

I´ve crack the code. Don´t You ever tell me, there´s no 2012 (God, how I hate that number :lol:). There is.

DMT somehow connects us with God. But how?

Cheers.
 

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5. Conclusion

My conclusion is that a new period of 13 baktuns in the Long Count of the Maya probably begins on 21 December 2012, but that we should not expect any special phenomena in the sky that are tied to that beginning.

It seems unlikely to me that the Maya tried to design their Long Count in such a way that the new period would start on a southern solstice in the middle of the Milky Way in their distant future, though it is not impossible.

If the Maya did design their Long Count with that conjunction in mind, then I do not think that they had enough knowledge to be able to predict the correct day of the conjunction accurately to better than a few dozen years, so if any special phenomena could be expected on the exact day of the conjunction, then they would probably not be visible on (or not visible just one) 21 December 2012.

I think that the beginning of a new period in the Long Count of the Maya in 2012 is just as unimportant as the 6000th anniversary of the Biblical creation date (celebrated in 1996), or the planetary conjunction of May 2000, or all kinds of past dates for which the end of the world had been predicted. Someone who did not hear about the prediction in advance would not have noticed anything special on those dates, and I predict that December 2012 will be like that as well.

The only effects that can be expected associated with the conjunction of 21 December 2012 have to do with the attention that people draw to that conjunction and date. If people expect that unusual things will happen on a certain date, then on that date they'll behave differently than usual, and that in itself is already an unusual thing. In this way they can fulfill their own expectations.


6. Coincidence

I believe that it is but a coincidence that 65 baktuns are approximately equal to the period of the precession of the equinoxes and that it is coincidence that the coming date of 0.0.0.0.0 in the Long Count falls on a southern solstice in the middle of the Milky Way.

You might think that it would have to be a very great coincidence, because if you choose the length of 65 baktuns at random then the chances of it happening to be about equal to the period of the precession of the equinoxes would be very small, and if you fix the date 0.0.0.0.0 at random (without regard to solstices or the Milky Way), then the chances of it happening to fall on a southern solstice in the middle of the Milky Way are also very small.

However, the probability of getting three sixes when casting three dies is also very small, but if someone does cast three sixes then that is not evidence of design or foul play. After all, if you cast the dies, then you must get some result, and if the dies are honest, then any result is equally probable, with the same very small probability, so getting three sixes is then just as likely as getting, for example, a two, and then a four, and then a three. This shows that the improbability of an occurrence is not by itself proof of design or foul play.

The observation that 65 baktuns are roughly equal to the period of the precession of the equinoxes is by itself not evidence that the Maya knew the precession, and the observation that the real 0.0.0.0.0 falls on a southern solstice when the Sun is in the middle of the Milky Way is therefore by itself no proof that the Maya must have designed their Long Count with the solstice and the Milky Way in mind.

Without unambiguous evidence from the Maya themselves we'll never be certain why they designed their Long Count in exactly the way they did.
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ok, this is just about as vague and unconvincing as everything else out there. is this supposed to be scientific? let me see... if i roll three dice, and get three 6's then 2012 is a sham.,,exactly.

i think their is more evidence that the Maya did construct their long count calendar based on the precession of the equinoxes(other civilizations were aware of this phenomenon), and the position of the sun on that particular day. have you seen the ruins os chitzen itza? complete with an observatory. they were obviously watching stars and celestial bodies. it probably took a few centuries, but they collected data. there is also heaps of evidence that they were keen on psilocibe mushrooms, toads, morning glories, etc. so they were getting loaded and taking notes, and they came up with a calendar that is said to run out in 3 yrs. these are exciting times indeed.
 
ok, this is just about as vague and unconvincing as everything else out there. is this supposed to be scientific? let me see... if i roll three dice, and get three 6's then 2012 is a sham.,,exactly.

i think their is more evidence that the Maya did construct their long count calendar based on the precession of the equinoxes(other civilizations were aware of this phenomenon), and the position of the sun on that particular day. have you seen the ruins os chitzen itza? complete with an observatory. they were obviously watching stars and celestial bodies. it probably took a few centuries, but they collected data. there is also heaps of evidence that they were keen on psilocibe mushrooms, toads, morning glories, etc. so they were getting loaded and taking notes, and they came up with a calendar that is said to run out in 3 yrs. these are exciting times indeed.
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Did you read the whole article? It doesn't matter anyway its just a brief investigation but it makes some clear points. Anyway the point I am making is that astrology is BS and any prophecies based on astrology are BS. I really can't understand how people can believe in this stuff. Its so fake and made up this whole hype over 2012. Sure its an important day for an ancient culture but who honestly cares? Its just like how we celebrate the new year or leap years or millenium. It doesn't actually mean shit its just cycles that we happen to like because they had significance for our ancestors who used them for surivival and agriculture.
 
I´ve seen ,2012´ so many times that it almost makes mad. You know, 2012 and the medieval city, 2012 and that big building over there... Really annoying. Anyways, it´s hard for me to comprehend there´s no 2012.
 
i hear where u are coming from, but just calling it bs dosn't convince me of anything. i understand why u would think that prophecies based on astrology are bs, i also dont believe in these. what i find interesting is the actual astronomy surrounding this time. and of course, i cant prove what will happen, and it is easy to find all sorts of info.
these ancients certainly believed something would happen, otherwise they wouldn't have put so much effort into sky observation, and calendars carved from stone. Maybe it is JUST a calendar, nothing more. You could be right, we are just searching for something to grasp onto, to believe in. but why? maybe this civilization has lost its appeal, culture is out of balance, we are looking for something dramatic to reset the clock, get us back into sync and harmony with the natural cycles and rhythms. and yes, of course, true change happens within.
 
Yes I guess the reason I often result to finally saying its all BS is because when you really understand the natural world to the limits that we know this stuff isn't even worth considering because its so far off from how we know things work. Most people aren't convinced by that argument because they haven't spent years of their life learning about the natural sciences.

these ancients certainly believed something would happen, otherwise they wouldn't have put so much effort into sky observation, and calendars carved from stone. Maybe it is JUST a calendar, nothing more.
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Calendars were extremely valuable to civilizations that could figure out a useful one. This was essential for agriculture. So to me its seems obvious that any culture who had a useful calendar would be quite happy with themselves and make artifacts and art out of it. We do this with our calenders too. We celebrate days for no reason just because they coincide with calendar days too. But there are reasons for all these things that don't involve any supernatural or wild speculation and are backed by evidence.

The 2012 myth isn't backed up by any evidence except some cranks and weirdos who claim to be scholars or experts on mayan culture. But its clear why people have made up and perpetuated this myth. Because its selling. People are selling books, movies, dvds, posters t shirts making songs organizing events etc etc etc. Cranks and weirdos are finally being accepted again and they are milking it for every cent.

maybe this civilization has lost its appeal, culture is out of balance, we are looking for something dramatic to reset the clock, get us back into sync and harmony with the natural cycles and rhythms. and yes, of course, true change happens within.
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But you see this is the kind of vague reasoning that people apply to 2012. What does in sync and in harmony with natural cycles even mean? If we all started waking up when the sun rose and going to bed when the sun set would that change the world?


I guess overall I am just totally in awe at how successful pseudoscientific made up myths can be at convincing people of things. There is a reason to be skeptical in this information age. Its a valuable lesson to learn when one learns it.
 
Again burnt, you see everything from the science perspective and ONLY from that perspective.
Life is so much more. There is a mystery.
The beautiful flower is a mystery.
The hole life is a mystery.

You can't examine life!

Some people are evolved spiritually, others are not.
2012 theory has also something about transformation.

The more humans transform their conciousness and grow spiritually the more we direct into a knew life on this planet.

A life in peace and harmony!
 
I wish more people would just put the whole 2012 thing aside and instead have a rational discussion about technology.

I remember terrence saying something about how from 1960 to 1970 there was more progress made than in all of recorded history..and even more than that from 1970-1980..and even more than that from 1980-1990 and so on..I find that more facinating and a mor realistic thing to actually ponder than the mayan calander and 2012..for one thing it's more tangible to us..

The window of time within which technological develpment happens in getting smaller and smaller..and it seems that for the most part that has become most tangible in the last century..and a century really isnt that long at all in the scale of history itself..

So it makes sense that we will hit a point of complexity where things on a technological level will be happening so fast and rapidly that our culture the way it may not be able to keep up..and a cahnge in the way we view reality and live might need to take place..at that point perhaps we will hit a sort of new "level" where the current rate of advancement slows down becasue things will look so strange that another sort of "historical process" begins to happen..where from that point on it is like starting all over again, like from a whole new perspective..a new scientific understanding.

This isnt new age psudo science..too me it just seems like math..

Doesnt mean the sky will open up and we will be sucked into some black hole..or that half the population will asend to some other land..but it might mean a paradigm shift will need to take place..

Most cultures are based in part around the level of technological abilities that culture has..it is what limits them and what assists them in they're own growth..look at the 20th cetury compared to the 19th or 18th century.. look at today compared to 50 years ago even..

If things keep progressing this way..things will continue to change on a technological level and a cultural level faster and faster..that means things can change on a huge level in such small time frames that we can literally watch it all go by..not reading about it in some history book but actaully living through that ammount of change taking place..

I think that is what really seperates us and todays culture from all of the cultures throughout the centuries..that is what makes today so intersting.

Weather or not that has anything to do with 2012 who knows..
 
If we all started waking up when the sun rose and going to bed when the sun set would that change the world?
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of course it would change the world, but im not advocating it.

the gregorian calendar (and the clock itself) is out of sync with natural cycles. natural cycles meaning (heart beat, gestation period, moon cycles, harmonic frequency of the earth, and perhaps most importantly, the Precession of the Equinoxes). there are those who believe that this is to blame for many of humanities problems. its like from birth that we are told it is 6 o clock, but this dosn't really relate to anything other than some silly clock. it can be convienent, but it may have the influence to 'confuse' populations.

The Precession of the Equinox.

It will be of great help in understanding all of this.

If your are to meet someone, daily, at 5 O'clock p.m. and your watch (unknown to you) gains 3.14 seconds a day, then after 100 days it will seem, according to your watch, that the person is showing up 5+ minutes late.

Our calendar mirrors a similar situation in that, daily, we are 3.14 seconds ahead of what is actually going on in the heavens (sidereal zodiac). So, as a result, once every 72 years, at the vernal equinox, it seems that the sun has backed up by 1 degree/day. So at the Vernal Equinox the sun is 1 degree away from where we think that its going to be. The 1 degree of 'backing up' is called The Precession of the Equinox and precession is measured at the calendar's annual Vernal Equinox (March 21st) and precession tells us how far along, within the present age, that we have come. So, on the Vernal Equinox of 2007 (March 21st) the sun was actually at (almost) 28 degrees of Pisces (my calculations) indicating that we have been in the Age of Pisces for 2,012 years, (See, images below).
(Note: It is not just the Sun that appears to be backing up, but the entire visible universe as viewed from the Earth).

An 'Age' will continue until there is a 30 degree difference between the Sun's actual position in the zodiac and the tropical (calendar's) Vernal Equinox. At that time (30 degree difference) the Sun will enter (backwards) the 30th degree of a new sign (Aquarius) and a new age will begin. After a new Astrological Age begins the span of degrees between 0° Aries and the Sun's actual position at the Vernal Equinox will continue to grow by 1° every 72 years.
2,160 years constitute an "Age" (30 degrees x 72 years each) and 'precession' is how we measure it.

The Roman Catholic Church's Gregorian Calendar (since 325 AD) ignores precession and has always tried to adjust the calendar to pretend that precession does not exist. As a result, most of us do not have a clue regarding where we are within the present age.
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Our present calendar is a "patchwork quilt" that has evolved as Man's knowledge and measuring devices have evolved. The only creation of Man that has more patches than the calendar is the Windows Operating System .
Our calendar as it exists now is simply the most recent expression of what we think is true regarding the Earth's movement around the Sun. Today we are just as certain of our calculations as were the astronomers of "ancient times".
None of the adjustments to our calendar included any consideration regarding precession and the length of the age and the collective effect of all of the calendar changes has been to virtually scramble the zodiac and banish astrology to the comic's section of the daily newspaper.
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Arguelles reminds us that we are the only species that is living and operating by a man-made sense of time that has actually placed us apart from and out of phase the rest of the Biosphere. Dr. Arguelles' findings demonstrate that the mentality engendered by artificial time is summarized by the motto "Time is Money," keeping us locked into a destructive, materialistic paradigm, to the detriment of the rest of the natural world.
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Dr. Arguelles' prescription for returning to harmony and laying the foundation for a new cultural program and paradigm is to align ourselves with the "natural timing frequency," called the "13:20 timing frequency" that places us back in phase with the cycles of the Earth and Cosmos and synchronizes us with our own deepest selves.

In this light, he and his former partner Lloydine Arguelles have inspired a global movement that is now being activated by people in over 90 countries who are choosing to grow beyond the status quo 12-month business calendar and instead utilize the 13-Month/28-day Natural Time Calendar as the template that frames and informs our perception of time and its sacred unfolding.
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As Broughton Richmond wrote in Time Measurement and Calendar Construction: "If the Julian/Gregorian calendar was to be offered as a new device for measuring time, we, with our present knowledge and state of living, would reject is as something utterly impractical, lacking in harmony and order, unbalanced and irregular, too clumsy a calendar to make calculations by..." It is time to ask: Why do we use an instrument of imperfect measure to coordinate the affairs of the world?
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interesting site.
 
burnt said:
"Yes I guess the reason I often result to finally saying its all BS is because when you really understand the natural world to the limits that we know this stuff isn't even worth considering because its so far off from how we know things work. Most people aren't convinced by that argument because they haven't spent years of their life learning about the natural sciences."



I think this is a true statement for my position at least. I would not have put it so firmly because my official limited education consists of electronics/telecommunications. So you could say I am not qualified to enter the argument because I am not a scientist.

My current opinion is based on reading hundreds of books on esoteric subjects as well as hard science. I have been studying world religions,shamanism, ect as well as physics,biology,psychology on my own since I was a teen. I have managed to land a few VERY interesting jobs that allowed me to work with scientists and technology that were far beyond what I could have dreamed of with my limited education.

The information I have been presented with is what has formed my current opinion that is always subject to change with new facts. I have not chosen to believe in a certain manner. Information and logic have dictated my opinions they are not my construction. I must be honest with my self above all else or personal growth of any type can not occur in my view.

Its a long time to 2012 these debates are beginning to make me a bit insane possibly that will be the event that will take place.
Twenty five percent of the world population will go starke raving mad. It will be up to the remaining seventy five percent to rebuild human culture after the apocalypse.:lol:

The way things are going that may be the necessary evil to get humanity back on track.:roll:

I am surprised no one has brought up the assumption that some historians have about the Mayan Calendar that it is not just a calendar based on time and astrological movements but is also a calendar of human conciseness. There is a very long lecture on the net I watched some time ago that goes into this. I will see if I can find it and post it. Of course it pretty far out but I found it very interesting.


PEACE
MV
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Yes its a repackaging of Christian BS. The old end of the world doom and eternal damnation threat the folly of fools no matter how well meaning they may be it is time we stop HUMORING these beleifes they are dangerous and irresponsible . GET responsible for your own life. Quit sucking on the BS bottle of intellectual infancy.
Its time for humans to grow up and that requires big change. The immaturity and irresponsibility of many well meaning humans blows my mind to little pieces.

I am sure many of you can see little bits of my brain matter floating about now.:lol:

Purposeful Ignorance for any reason is a very evil and dangerous thing not in its own sense, it becomes so after things are know and the truth is still refused. Innocent ignorance is a natural beginning for all. Learning is the only thing that will save humanity or prolong its existence.

Peace
MV
 
I really like Dennis' perspective. i can just imagine those two brothers down in the amazon, Dennis smashing watches....

note also;
he says in the interview that he DOES believe in the alignment, ---- "it is built into celestial mechanics, these conjunctions will take place, no doubt about it" ---- just that he doesn't think anything spectacular will occur because of it.


Nice interview with D McKenna. I am glad he was honest and straight forward about the myth.

See!!! 2012 is a myth!
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so what is the myth? that the mayan calendar ends?; that there happens to be a extremely rare astrological alignment at the same time?; or that we are going to transcend matter and enter the imagination?:) :) :)
 
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