Why does DMT get all the attention?

[JacksonMetaller]

Alright well I have yet to take upper biology and chemistry so I wasn't familiar with what an IC50 was and probably read right over that.

I still don't think you can use potency to justify the power of the experience. Rather than trying to refute what you say I just want you to answer one question.

If LSD is "more powerful" then why on COMPARATIVE doses (not by mass, but by effect) does DMT seem to have a much more powerful psychological impact on me?

Notice I'm NOT talking about typical doses of each. I'm talking, threshold vs threshold, moderate vs moderate. I know the typical DMT dose (35mg) is higher up on the dose response than the typical 175mics of LSD. I'm not an idiot. I never argued that and yet you continue to think I am.

It was meant to educate and inform you because you are only spouting some stupid ass insane opinion.

Exactly!! It's a stupid opinion! The power of an experience is a f***ing opinion! At least in the context people are using it when they say "DMT is the most powerful psychedelic."

 

[The_Aviator]

EDIT: What if Chuck Norris were to smoke DMT?????

The experience would humble him and he would no longer be homophobic.

 

[Jarl Von Hoother]

I see this thread quickly became contaminated with negative nay saying. Why are topics metaphorically as hard to keep clean from BS just as the common mushroom... though preferably psychedelic. Clearly everyone different strokes for different folks there is no end all be all psychedelic and thank god in case man one day travels light years away and finds SOME plant or another they call 'Heaven 5040' that makes DMT or 5 meoDMT, rcs and acid all together seem like low grade maryjuana. what if they pull this thread from the data banks, and BUST UP laughing and interrupt the thread about Heaven5040 posting their nostalgia's about smoking DMT laughing about all the peer pressure and how heaven 5040 was like the rocket shuttle compared to all the rave about the first wheel 6000 years before.

So everyone but, joe dirt and the other guy lets take a step back and watch history repeat it's self.

Signed, The Jarl

 

[Jarl Von Hoother]

.

 

[Guyomech]

Ha! I love that.

Joe: I appreciate your discussion of dose response curves- have never heard it discussed in these terms, and it all makes sense.

But I'll stand by my first comment for the following reason. The average psychedelic user- not the hardcore, but the other 90%... Will take one or two, maybe three hits of acid. At 300ug they may have a profound experience but you know it doesn't touch what 25mg of spice can deliver, which is probably about the kind of dose this "average" psychedelic user will try. So to this large majority of all psychedelic users, their DMT experiences will be far more profound than their LSD ones. This is a large part of where popular culture has gleaned its image of what DMT is like.

My top dose of LSD was 1600ug. And although it was INSANE, it was also kind of sweaty and unfocused, lacking the clarity of DMT. Now this is just in my own experience, but I think you'll find a lot of others who would make the same comparison... Acid is more of a blunt instrument, while DMT feels to me like a much more precision instrument, where almost all of its potency goes directly into the core of the experience.

Now Joe, you ask: who cares what popular culture thinks? And you are damn well right about that, of course. But the OP asked, why does DMT get all the attention? That's what I was trying to address.

 

[Psychonaut In Orbit]

My friend who introduced me to DMT is a very experienced psychonaut. We just had a talk a few days ago and he asked if I had ever did Acid before... I told him I still haven't done it but I want to bad. He said Acid is his favorite but.... DMT is in it's own category... period. He told me in plain words that nothing is f*ckin' with DMT as far as the experience goes and that there is a certain "respect" that goes into partaking in DMT. He said "you can light up a j.. that's nothing... drink a few beers... do a couple of tabs but with DMT it isn't anything like that. You have to prepare yourself for the experience." After that little talk we both at the same time had a "shared" feeling of euphoria and body tingling as if we were about to partake or was in the first few seconds of a DMT trip... all we could do was look at each other and smile knowing the feeling we were both feeling and knowing we didn't have to say a single word to let each other know what we were feeling. :d

I haven't done Acid, but I surely do want to... I already know where the spirit molecule is in my heart... I actually want to do both Acid and DMT at the same time but if I never get the chance to do Acid then I'll be just fine with all that Dmitri has shown me and taught me. :thumb_up:

P.S. I have a question for the Acid partakers. Do you have flashbacks? My experience with DMT has been that I can have a "flashback" almost at will and bring upon the "body sensations" you would feel during a low dose DMT trip. I was wondering if this was common with Acid also.

 

[The_Aviator]

P.S. I have a question for the Acid partakers. Do you have flashbacks? My experience with DMT has been that I can have a "flashback" almost at will and bring upon the "body sensations" you would feel during a low dose DMT trip. I was wondering if this was common with Acid also.

I have done acid about a dozen times and I have never had a flashback. But last time I smoked DMT I had residual visual effects for about two weeks. They were barely noticeable but I would recognize patterns that I normally would not have and sometimes objects would seem to morph into each other or turn a different color. But as I mentioned, this did not last.

 

[olympus mon]

You're still rambling about potency and that's not what we're talking about here. I understand dose response. This is about SUBJECTIVE psychedelic effects, not receptor affinity or any of that jazz.

You are seriously dense if you believe that after my last post.
Tell me wise guy, what did I say in the VERY first line of my post?
Hear let me get it again for you because apparently you would rather argue and try to look right instead of learning something about the comparison drugs. Please take special note the BOLD part. And then why not go back and actually read my post. It was meant to educate and inform you because you are only spouting some stupid ass insane opinion.

You need to understand dose response curves. (Response in this case is subjective effect and not IC50 value) And you need to understand where a typical (say 35mg) hit of DMT lies on it's dose/response curve with say a typical 175mcg blotter of LSD.

I have nothing more to say.

Go ahead and smoke your "WORLDS MOST POWERFUL DRUG" :?

Joe, you need to throttle back your getting super heated and being disrespectful. Everything people are writing although disagreeing with you have not been attacking your character however you are. If your getting this pissed off then stop entering the conversation.

Your talking about different things here and yes you are correct in what your trying to convey and your information is very imformative about potency but its obvious that's not all that others are trying to discuss and have explained that multiple times. They are discussing the experience of dmt not its potency by weight.

Its just a forum my brother...breathe.

 

[acacian]

You need to understand dose response curves. (Response in this case is subjective effect and not IC50 value) And you need to understand where a typical (say 35mg) hit of DMT lies on it's dose/response curve with say a typical 175mcg blotter of LSD.

In order to make comparisons of 'power' you need to make sure that the dose for each drug is in the same region of the dose response curve. In the case of a typical dose of LSD and a typical dose of freebase DMT you are not even remotely close to the same region of the dose response curve.

When you inhale a 35mg hit of DMT you are far to the right of the DMT dose/response curve (dose on x-axis increasing from left to right and response on y axis (increasing bottom to top). If you take much more DMT you are likely to have a white out or black out like experience. It may not be 35mgs it may be 50mgs for you, but if you go past the hyperspace point by to much you wil have a white out...and not the Godhead sort. This means you are at the peak of the response and increases in dose are no longer doing much. AKA You have maxed out the DMT power and potency.

When you take a single blotter (or even 10) of LSD you are still very much on the left side of the LSD dose response curve for this drug. If you take enough LSD to put you are same relative location on the dose response curve as a DMT break through I think you will find out quite quickly that LSD is actually the more potent and powerful of the two.

Let's put this in perspective shall we. A thumb print of LSD would be the equivalent dose of a break through hit of DMT. I can say this because people have taken thumb prints and had multiday long break through experiences....without blackout or whiteout. I sincerely suggest you DO not do this. It will likely change you permanently.

BTW for what it's worth (probably not much) my training is in medicinal chemistry. I work in drug discovery. I really am not just making this up to argue with you. I saying this as a caution to others. What you say is simply not true and if some one believes that DMT was the 'most powerful' and that a drug like LSD could never be that powerful they could do serious harm to their long term psychological state.


BTW Yes I understand popular culture say's it's the most powerful. So what. We do psychedelics for god sakes..when the hell did we start caring what popular culture thinks and says! lol :roll:

And yes. DMT is damn powerful. I have had experiences where i was immersed in the God head for 20 minutes and came out with face down on the ground in prayer position and tears streaming down my face. I however, would never in a million years take an LSD thumb print.

i always learn a lot from the things your posts joedirt.. thanks for typing that all out! :thumb_up:

imagine freebase LSD ... that would be a ride

I will say this though, the dmt experience is uniquely powerful to me in that it lacks the contemplation I go through for a while before breaking free of the ego. there is a force present (be it myself or external... or both) on dmt which guides me in my surrender like no other psychedelic has. DMT seems tailor made to the human condition in a really unique way. though then again... mushrooms are cacti have a simialar thing going, though they more feel like they are letting me look through a window into other realms, whereas dmt I am in those realms

 

[Purges]

My opinion (and you know what people say about them right? ) is as follows:

Synthetic substances in my experience, do not have that 'spirit' to them that is evident in the natural substances. This, imo, is what sets the natural ones in a class of their own.

Psilocybin, while perfectly capable of ejecting one from their body, has much more of an 'in between' phase, and is often used in this fashion, frequently recreational.

Salvia, smoked, can be very uncomfortable, and more of a freak show than a spiritual revelation.

Bufotenin, from what I hear is incredible in the visual sense, but lacks because of extreme nausea / body load and emotional or mental content.

5-meo-DMT is, again from what I hear, very heavy, and a ticket to God head, which, while spiritual (can it get more spiritual?), may not be the desired outcome.

Mescaline, at all but the highest doses seems to be a bit more grounded and euphoric than the tryptamines, and seems better suited to a group setting too. It is next on my list to try, as I hear nothing but glowing reviews.

Ibogaine, sounds phenomenal, but is a BIG commitment both in terms of time, and physical load. A true medicine as well from the sounds of it, and a dead cert way of pressing the 'reset button'...

DMT may just be the most curious of the bunch, and I agree that low - med doses are far more spectacular than low - med doses of LSD both visually and in terms of content. No other substance has had me on my knees, crying with joy, in what I would consider spiritual ecstacy. It's so foreign and yet familiar at the same time. A truly unfathomable experience that DEMANDS the users respect.

So I read that back and it doesn't really answer the question... I think there are a number of reasons why it gets so much attention.

Firstly, we are on a site that is dedicated to this specific molecule. Go to a forum about VolksWagens, and guess what they will predominantly talk about? You guessed it.

Secondly, you can smoke it, bypassing those uncomfortable nauseating come ups and getting straight to the meat and potatoes in seconds. You are down in 30 mins and free to get on with your day / night. Only Salvia and 5-meo also offer this.

Thirdly, you can buy all the bits to extract it legally, and have a batch within 24hrs, and its so easy to do.

Fourthly, there is all this 'found in pretty much all living things' type info, which is BOUND to grab people's attention - whether a 'prickle' or a 'goo', that has to be an intriguing fact... An invitation almost...

idk, DMT is just freaking awesome. No other drug has woken me up like it has. It popped my hyperspace cherry, and for that reason I value it very very highly...

 

[JacksonMetaller]

P.S. I have a question for the Acid partakers. Do you have flashbacks? My experience with DMT has been that I can have a "flashback" almost at will and bring upon the "body sensations" you would feel during a low dose DMT trip. I was wondering if this was common with Acid also.

No "true" flashbacks in the sense of visuals or body effects. If I smoke weed though I'll get the faint feeling of the machine noises in my head and I will end up in some flashback type states. It's hard to explain. It's not where I actually have psychedelic visuals (except for weed ones. i've always gotten those.) But my mind starts making pattern recognition between the high state and the LSD state. So I can perceive patterns and visuals in my head which are quite strong though they're not strong enough to be fully apparent in my visual field.

I have also gotten some sober flashbacks but of the similar sense. Not like I'm tripping again, but just strong memories of LSD or DMT realizations that kind of hit me out of nowhere. It's awesome. I can be sitting here at my computer and all of a sudden I'll feel the connection of everything being one and all that good stuff.

 

[Guyomech]

About 150 LSD trips, including some very high doses... But no flashbacks. The visual world I experienced in the acid zone are now a permanent part of the vocabulary of my imagination, but that's quite different from uncontrolled flashbacks.

 

[jamie]

Psilocybin/cin is more "potent" than DMT if you really want to get into it..a freaking huge dose of psilocybin would be 14mg or so..

Try to take 14mg of DMT orally and see how it compares..

I have always felt based on experience that Psilocybin take one just as far as DMT..and I have a lot of experience with both.

Most people are willing(or maybe not) not inhale a large dose of DMT feeling safe that it will last 5 minutes etc..

Most people are not willing to eat a breakthrough dose of mushrooms or drink that much ayahuasca.

If you want to match what ayahuasca can do..mix a good dose of mushrooms with caapi. You will see.

Savinorin A is far more potent than DMT.

So is 5meoDMT..

also..

It's not a contenst.:roll:

 

[Bill Cipher]

My top dose of LSD was 1600ug. And although it was INSANE, it was also kind of sweaty and unfocused, lacking the clarity of DMT. Now this is just in my own experience, but I think you'll find a lot of others who would make the same comparison... Acid is more of a blunt instrument, while DMT feels to me like a much more precision instrument, where almost all of its potency goes directly into the core of the experience.

I'll second that and add to it by saying that I have never reached this whiteout/blackout point that people talk about. I've been to what I consider the high end of the dosage range, and in my experience the precision and clarity only increase exponentially as the dosage is increased. Remembering details afterwards is not the same thing as blacking out, and any time I've broken through (and much of the times that I haven't), details have been hard to bring back.

I've had 100 LSD experiences myself, give or take, and although I loved them and had/have a huge affinity for the drug, it's never invaded my day to day/minute to minute consciousness in the same way that DMT has. My DMT breakthrough experiences stand alone, hardwired into my brain. They are with me, literally, all the time - not in some sensationalist flashback kind of a way - but always there in the back of my mind, reframing all that I see.

I don't know (or much care) what specific drug packs the biggest punch of them all. But I will say that if there is anything that can take me further down the rabbit hole than this, I shudder to imagine just what that could be, and I sure as hell won't be going there.

 

[Guyomech]

Jamie- my deepest trip ever was 7g powdered psilocybin / 100 mg rue. Nothing else has ever come close... So I definitely agree with you there.. But back to the OP... We aren't talking about what's most powerful so much as how the public perceived DMT.

When discussing "powerful experiences", there are so many factors going into what makes them powerful, that the simple potency of the substance is only a part of the picture, and in some cases a small part.

 

[JacksonMetaller]

I don't know (or much care) what specific drug packs the biggest punch of them all. But I will say that if there is anything that can take me further down the rabbit hole than this, I shudder to imagine just what that could be, and I sure as hell won't be going there.

Apparently IV'd 4-aco-dmt makes a DMT breakthrough seem like childs play. This is just what I've been told and I wouldn't recommend it but I certainly intend to try this on my death bed I've heard a couple people say they got the plunger about 1/4 of the way down before aztec patterns were already crawling over everything and others had to stop halfway and abort the trip due to the intensity. The few that took the full dive said it was like a breakthrough on steroids. Of course this is just a few anecdotal reports but it seems pretty interesting. There are actually some pretty funny reports on the shroomery lol! One guy took it and spent weeks rambling on the boards trying to get everyone to do it before settling down and snapping out of it.

 

[Eliyahu]

My top dose of LSD was 1600ug. And although it was INSANE, it was also kind of sweaty and unfocused, lacking the clarity of DMT. Now this is just in my own experience, but I think you'll find a lot of others who would make the same comparison... Acid is more of a blunt instrument, while DMT feels to me like a much more precision instrument, where almost all of its potency goes directly into the core of the experience.

I'll second that and add to it by saying that I have never reached this whiteout/blackout point that people talk about. I've been to what I consider the high end of the dosage range, and in my experience the precision and clarity only increase exponentially as the dosage is increased. Remembering details afterwards is not the same thing as blacking out, and any time I've broken through (and much of the times that I haven't), details have been hard to bring back.

I've had 100 LSD experiences myself, give or take, and although I loved them and had/have a huge affinity for the drug, it's never invaded my day to day/minute to minute consciousness in the same way that DMT has. My DMT breakthrough experiences stand alone, hardwired into my brain. They are with me, literally, all the time - not in some sensationalist flashback kind of a way - but always there in the back of my mind, reframing all that I see.

I don't know (or much care) what specific drug packs the biggest punch of them all. But I will say that if there is anything that can take me further down the rabbit hole than this, I shudder to imagine just what that could be, and I sure as hell won't be going there.

I third all of this...:thumb_up: ^

I have also observed that the higher the dose of DMT the more crystal clear real it becomes...
Part of what makes it so frightening for me personally...the dastic realism that FAR exceeds even the solid realness of the "concrete" everyday reality I am used to existing in....

Especially found the "sweaty and unfocused" part to be amusing and highly accurate....
Reminds me of Hunter S.

 

[Jarl Von Hoother]

Savinorin A is far more potent than DMT.

So is 5meoDMT..

also..

It's not a contenst.:roll:

I totally understand Jamie, but in regards of the space race better the better gear is what takes us there. Even though we don't just want a pointless shuttle around the earth - we want a full fledged apollo journey into a new world entirely of it's own. What I mean to say is we need to focus not only on DMT, but if we can prepare ourselves before hand for an hyperintergalactic voyage to the furthest reaches of space. DMT should mostly be a preliminary peep into the clouds.

Than slowly but, surely doubling up more and more it should be everybody's project to cultivate and add mushrooms to their diet, or go to party's following that Sid guy around, extrapolate more tek science involved in the tryptamine family here together, posting pics and really hanker down in the lab, or searching the best vendors. Awaking that sleeping giant 69 Ron, lets arraign all the scientist and ourselves to work together on the most baffling tryptamines like 5 meo-dmt, 5 oh-dmt, 5 ho-dmt, more mushroom growing. DMT nexus is this far! just to share my aspiration

DMT may just be the most curious of the bunch, and I agree that low - med doses are far more spectacular than low - med doses of LSD both visually and in terms of content. No other substance has had me on my knees, crying with joy, in what I would consider spiritual ecstacy. It's so foreign and yet familiar at the same time. A truly unfathomable experience that DEMANDS the users respect.

:thumb_up: but, I believe Purge's thorough listing of psyches has answered what this thread sought out. our answers are, why DMT? Why NOT Dmt? :lol:

 

[Psychonaut In Orbit]

@JacksonMetaller

Those realizations are awe-inspiring right?!?!?! Just some strange beauty that hits you out of nowhere like a trans-dimensional lightning strike! Those realizations can put me in a good fit of laughter or tears... I remember one time I was just thinking on my upcoming extraction/experiments. I knew I was going to be going very far with these next experiments due to the fact that I was doing my second extraction. Well as I was driving home, the thought just kept looping and looping in my head but with each loop another layer of complexity was being thrown in the mix. All of a sudden an emotion hit me so hard that you would have thought a loved one of mine had passed away... I'm talking waterfalls of tear. I'm not the most experienced psychonaut in the universe... far from it.. but I do feel that I'm experienced with DMT and plan on doing some experimenting with other psychedelics. With that being said the actual impact that DMT has had on my life is unique all in it's own, rather it be experimenting with substances or everyday life the impact and experience is unparalleled.

In general, as stated by Purges, what also helps DMT's case (it's not a contest either.. I agree ) is the ease of actually obtaining it (I'm not talking as in buying but extracting it).


@The_Aviator

I have had those residual effects as well with DMT. They usually last a week or two but with my last exploration with the spirit molecule the residual effects lasted close to a month though but that was due to the fact that I had gone as far as I had ever gone. It was a week long binge that ended with me doing a two bowl 50 mg each trip... and the residual effects were a bit extreme. I'm talking full on sub-breakthrough trips while transitioning between going to sleep and waking up. For some reason this state triggered these episodes along with extremely vivid dreams that would partly carry over into my waking state for a few instances and then "melt away" as DMt likes to do when you are partaking and then coming back to baseline.

@uncle Knucles

"I've had 100 LSD experiences myself, give or take, and although I loved them and had/have a huge affinity for the drug, it's never invaded my day to day/minute to minute consciousness in the same way that DMT has. My DMT breakthrough experiences stand alone, hardwired into my brain. They are with me, literally, all the time - not in some sensationalist flashback kind of a way - but always there in the back of my mind, reframing all that I see."

I don't know if this was directed at me :roll: or in general but the flashbacks I speak of are not of the "sensationalist" tone but rather serious and very real. I don't know if this is unique to just me or this is common in the majority of DMT users but personally out of the face to face fellow travellers that I have partaken DMT with, I would say 90% also experience these flashbacks. I'm definitely not trying to make it seem all dramatic or anything but this experience with me is very real and is consistent and constant since the first moment I was warped into hyperspace.

With all that being said Good Vibes to all and Safe Travels. I am soon to be acquainted with the spirit molecule again in the near future and I am VERY excited. :thumb_up:

 

[LiquidGlass]

I think this thread got WAY derailed . . .

But ill fuel the fire. I have had a lot of high dose LSD trips, but one out of body experience. I was literally gone for hours while my body did stuff, ran around at a drum circle, jumped through the fire, eventually to go sit down speaking in tongues when my friends checked on me. And coming down was like waking from a dream, I snapped back to my body in an instant, stone sober with no memery of my bodies actions. Even 14 yrs later the memory things I experienced resonate deeply within me. And I have to say while amazingly powerful in its own respect, it is no way even close to the place DMT takes you, 2 totally different worlds not even on the same level. For me LSD is very special, but in my OPINION dmt IS the spirit molecule and can take you many places LSD cannot.