Why is a psychotic episode a sticky?

[d1m1t]

I've always respected this site, and I approach spirituality and psychedelics with an open mind.
And seeing this stream of mental illness, exhibited as something excellent here, makes me sad. It's not even a DMT report.

The thread is called "Opti and I", placed at the very top of this section: DMT - Quality experience reports - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I find this wrong. Endorsing a typical example of psychosis is hurtful to those who have to take care of these people in real life, as they're the ones who must listen to word soups such as this for hours to no end.

The goal of exploring psychedelics is not to fry the brain for good. Sanity is easily taken for granted.

 

[d1m1t]

To make myself more clear: I'm not talking about whether or not he is actually "on to something". That's not for me to decide.
But if you notice how it is written, then that says it all.

People on the edge of psychosis could see the encouragement (which is also found in the replies of the thread) and more easily allow themselves into that kind of rabbit hole.

 

[AlchemicalGnostic]

Why does this bother you? It's just showing the perspective of someone with that condition. I'd rather it be posted and be learned from than to have no idea it even existed.

 

[d1m1t]

Why does this bother you? It's just showing the perspective of someone with that condition. I'd rather it be posted and be learned from than to have no idea it even existed.

I've updated my previous reply to make it more clear. It is the proclaim by way of the sticky and the replies that I find irresponsible.

 

[Studio1one]

Because it is an incredibly well written piece on language, consciousness and what we perceive to be reality.

It is one of my favourite posts on this whole forum, it is a beautifully crafted essay. Many great books and pieces of literature are written by people of questionable mental health if judged within the confines of what we consider 'normal'.

 

[d1m1t]

Because it is an incredibly well written piece on language, consciousness and what we perceive to be reality.

It is one of my favourite posts on this whole forum, it is a beautifully crafted essay. Many great books and pieces of literature are written by people of questionable mental health if judged within the confines of what we consider 'normal'.

Can I ask for an example of what makes it beautiful to you?

I find the text to be words more or less randomly thrown together in an alarming manner, such as this example:

[…..end report]

[dialogue follows]


Opticus, you are escaped!


[No body tell, OK? Hehehehehehe]


Assimilate me
[Assassinate me]

The porcelain and gold god bathroom has three holes.


Ass, you emulate me!


I need nurturing my self, Symbiont.
This human incarnation is hurtful.

Lazy and slow and hurtful.


Please. That is a little better. I need food. Like you do.





The Sand Witch


A sandwich is an assemblage of specifically enfolded organic ingredients from widely dispersed sources; a sand witch is a remnant shirt-tail, desert dwelling, nut-job cousin of the current surviving red haired graal witch. They are scalar versions of each other; either is made by the Other. The Other is that part that is not us that defines what we are.

 

[Wolfnippletip]

So the author went off the rails a bit? So do I most times when I trip. I expect the thread was stickied because it was entertaining, elaborate and relevant to other members' experiences. I was introduced to that thread after describing, in chat something similar I saw while on mimohuasca.

The question of encouraging someone who seems to be displaying signs of a disordered mind is a difficult one. The psychedelic experience necessarily disorders one's mind. I've met many here who openly discuss their mental disorders, or who seemed to display symptoms of various disorders. I like that they are well tolerated on the Nexus unless their talk becomes disruptive, violent or self-destructive.

 

[d1m1t]

If I understood the text right, then it is not a psychedelic experience. For me that turns the entertainment value into something negative.

 

[Swayambhu]

Evidence of people suffering from various degrees of mental ill-health are quite common on psychedelia related forums, it seems. Unsurprising, perhaps, as the first thing that many sufferers turn to in times of crisis is often that which will do them most harm.
That said, I'm not sure what censoring such content would achieve. It can make unsettling reading, and perhaps titillates the voyeuristic tendencies of some of us. But perhaps it might also serve as a reminder that it is possible for some of us to fly too close to the Sun?

 

[pitubo]

I've always respected this site, and I approach spirituality and psychedelics with an open mind.
And seeing this stream of mental illness, exhibited as something excellent here, makes me sad. It's not even a DMT report.

The thread is called "Opti and I", placed at the very top of this section: DMT - Quality experience reports - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I find this wrong. Endorsing a typical example of psychosis is hurtful to those who have to take care of these people in real life, as they're the ones who must listen to word soups such as this for hours to no end.

The goal of exploring psychedelics is not to fry the brain for good. Sanity is easily taken for granted.

I find your application of labels like "psychosis" and "word soup" rather a bit too liberal. Even your later attempts to explain and expound on your initial "diagnosis" are grossly lacking for such strong judgements as you are making.

It appears to be pretty obvious to me that you are not actually schooled in the relevant areas of psychiatry, or even a licenced practicing professional. Clearly, such a person would be much more careful and considerate in their judgement, and they would certainly not rush to pronounce these accusations as publicly as you are doing here. At the very least, they would initially try to contact the site administrator directly with their concerns.

Regarding the actual "Opti and I" story as it was published here, I read it more as a piece of literature than most other experience reports posted here. AFAICS that is also more or less the stated intent at the top of the thread. I don't know why you disregard that part. Nor do I know why you disregard the fine composition and structure of the story in general (at least when compared to a lot of the postings on this forum), while taking issue with a few hand-picked sections.

Anyone venturing into the domains of psychedelia must be prepared to face their own irrationalities, however latent these may be. I would estimate the person who dares to willingly and awarely explores the shadow of their own sanity as a lot more sane than those who tremble and revolt before those who do dare to.

D1m1t, even if your intentions were benevolent, you should perhaps reconsider yourself in these matters.

 

[d1m1t]

Correct, I am not a professional. Based upon writings I've seen by people in confirmed psychosis, this checks out as a textbook psychotic style of writing.

We necessarily experience the text subjectively, and what you experience as fine composition and structure, I apparently experience as vaguely coherent word play that I feel is unfit to be rewarded and endorsed as something good.

 

[nexalizer]

Because it is an incredibly well written piece on language, consciousness and what we perceive to be reality.

It is one of my favourite posts on this whole forum, it is a beautifully crafted essay. Many great books and pieces of literature are written by people of questionable mental health if judged within the confines of what we consider 'normal'.

100%.

 

[pitubo]

Correct, I am not a professional.

I don't mind much if you are not. I do mind quite a lot if you do not observe proper care and consideration while dressing yourself up in psychiatrists' boots and making big leaps.

I expected the necessarily subjective, and different views. My subjective view doesn't see fine composition or structure.

A purely qualitative judgement of a written text is in many ways highly subjective, apart from the obvious issues like spelling and grammar.

What I see is unfit to be rewarded and endorsed as something good.

That is your subjective appreciation. It can not be generalized to its appreciation by other people in general. If you are convinced that you can make independent assesments of goodness and fitness on behalf of the general public, then, well, perhaps your psychiatric qualifications should be considered from an entirely different viewpoint, if you understand what I mean.

That this is a textbook psychotic style of writing is an evaluation I make based upon previous (confirmed psychotic) examples I've seen.

I've scanned through a few psychiatric textbooks, but I hardly remember having seen any mention of writing style as a means for differential diagnostics. Would you please care to quote any such standards for relating writing style peculiarities to psychotic disorders?

Oh, and by the way, the informal jargon term for confused and unstructured language is "word salad" , not "word soup".

 

[d1m1t]

I assumed I was making an obvious observation, not playing a psychiatrist. I've done what I can to tell my opinion now.

Either way, our civilization failed to name it "word spaghetti".

 

[Studio1one]

Because it is an incredibly well written piece on language, consciousness and what we perceive to be reality.

It is one of my favourite posts on this whole forum, it is a beautifully crafted essay. Many great books and pieces of literature are written by people of questionable mental health if judged within the confines of what we consider 'normal'.

Can I ask for an example of what makes it beautiful to you?

I find the text to be words more or less randomly thrown together in an alarming manner, such as this example:

[…..end report]

[dialogue follows]


Opticus, you are escaped!


[No body tell, OK? Hehehehehehe]


Assimilate me
[Assassinate me]

The porcelain and gold god bathroom has three holes.


Ass, you emulate me!


I need nurturing my self, Symbiont.
This human incarnation is hurtful.

Lazy and slow and hurtful.


Please. That is a little better. I need food. Like you do.





The Sand Witch


A sandwich is an assemblage of specifically enfolded organic ingredients from widely dispersed sources; a sand witch is a remnant shirt-tail, desert dwelling, nut-job cousin of the current surviving red haired graal witch. They are scalar versions of each other; either is made by the Other. The Other is that part that is not us that defines what we are.

If you assess that to be randomly thrown together words I have to come to one of 2 conclusions.

1. English is not your native language

2. You don't see linguistics as an art.

The playing with spelling, to make similar phenoms form relevant words that sound the same, The wide and varied vocabulary, the clear expression of emotion -- these all suggest someone who has a fantastic grasp of the linguistic core of a language and is prepared to use it and bend it to there will to express themselves clearly but uniquely.


I find it a hugely admirable piece of writing and the concept that a parasite can live within language and use it as a physical space to reside is incredibly unique and as a concept fasdcinating.

For sure the writer may have been having a hard time but he has certainly had incredibly lucid and relevant revelations that he has been able to express in a unique and original way by bastardising and breaking language to fit his will, much in the same way as the subject of the story.


You need to open your eyes and look up.

 

[Swayambhu]

That this is a textbook psychotic style of writing is an evaluation I make based upon previous (confirmed psychotic) examples I've seen.

I've scanned through a few psychiatric textbooks, but I hardly remember having seen any mention of writing style as a means for differential diagnostics. Would you please care to quote any such standards for relating writing style peculiarities to psychotic disorders?

I don't know about a specific way of writing but there is definitely a specific schizophrenic way of speaking, and while I have neither the time nor the inclination to read the cited post in its entirety, the excerpts I did read certainly appeared to bear many of the hallmarks of that type of speech, which is definitely discussed in the literature. Unfortunately it is more than a decade since I read anything on the subject so I can't help with references, but they are there, in reference to speech, at least.

 

[Mindlusion]

The person you are referring to is in many ways responsible for the community you find here. Brick and mortar. He was an incredibly perceptive individual, and had a way with words like nothing I've ever seen. He influenced me in many ways I probably have yet to even become conscious of.

Did he suffer from some form of mental illness? Probably. We all do. Does that give his experience any more or less merit? No, it doesn't. I refer to mine in describing almost every psychedelic experience I've had, because its integrated into my life and it would not be complete or honest without it. And in my experience, it has always been both a curse, and a blessing. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

So who are you to judge?


edit: whoops, my mistake i thought it was written by house, nevertheless, all is still true

 

[Swayambhu]

Because it is an incredibly well written piece on language, consciousness and what we perceive to be reality.

It is one of my favourite posts on this whole forum, it is a beautifully crafted essay. Many great books and pieces of literature are written by people of questionable mental health if judged within the confines of what we consider 'normal'.

Can I ask for an example of what makes it beautiful to you?

I find the text to be words more or less randomly thrown together in an alarming manner, such as this example:

[…..end report]

[dialogue follows]


Opticus, you are escaped!


[No body tell, OK? Hehehehehehe]


Assimilate me
[Assassinate me]

The porcelain and gold god bathroom has three holes.


Ass, you emulate me!


I need nurturing my self, Symbiont.
This human incarnation is hurtful.

Lazy and slow and hurtful.


Please. That is a little better. I need food. Like you do.





The Sand Witch


A sandwich is an assemblage of specifically enfolded organic ingredients from widely dispersed sources; a sand witch is a remnant shirt-tail, desert dwelling, nut-job cousin of the current surviving red haired graal witch. They are scalar versions of each other; either is made by the Other. The Other is that part that is not us that defines what we are.

If you assess that to be randomly thrown together words I have to come to one of 2 conclusions.

1. English is not your native language

2. You don't see linguistics as an art.

The playing with spelling, to make similar phenoms form relevant words that sound the same, The wide and varied vocabulary, the clear expression of emotion -- these all suggest someone who has a fantastic grasp of the linguistic core of a language and is prepared to use it and bend it to there will to express themselves clearly but uniquely.


I find it a hugely admirable piece of writing and the concept that a parasite can live within language and use it as a physical space to reside is incredibly unique and as a concept fasdcinating.

For sure the writer may have been having a hard time but he has certainly had incredibly lucid and relevant revelations that he has been able to express in a unique and original way by bastardising and breaking language to fit his will, much in the same way as the subject of the story.


You need to open your eyes and look up.

I don't have an opinion re; the original poster's point, really, but in their defence I would say that sane people who have a good grasp of the language do not usually express themselves using the clanging rhymes, juvenile word substitutions and puns of the sort seen in the quote, which kind of by definition are the resort of those having difficulty expressing themselves.
No judgement here, just stating what I understand to be fact.

 

[universecannon]

Opticuswrangler has a deep grasp of linguistics and the quirks of language, coupled with a playful writing style and very deep experiences, so naturally he chose to relate his hyperspatial explorations/thoughts in his own unique way.

He's essentially talking about the same types of experiences that Philip K. Dick, Terence McKenna, and many others were relating. Genius and what seems like a form of madness often go hand in hand.

 

[pitubo]

Sigh..

Oh well, so I do a little more research into dmt-nexus member opticuswrangler. Which is what d1m1t could have done in the first place, before trowing about that wild frenzy of ill-founded accusations.

I admit to not having spelled and analyzed the "Opti and I" thread before commenting in this thread. My glancing through it gave me an impression that, although the text is not a conventional linear rational essay, it lacks much of the feel that I know (in my limited experience) as typical psychotic poetry, as I have personally observed it on various occasions in various shapes. I like to equate true psychotic ramblings to poetry, because I have found that it helps to uncover layers and depths of meaning that would otherwise be lost, much the same as with "canonical" poetry.

"Opti and I" does not resonate with psychotic poetry, at least not for me. It is a good attempt, perhaps, but it is too lucid, there is just too much reflection and observation. It also lacks the subterranean panic, masked by frantic flowerbeds of manic compensation, growing uncontrolled into dense bushes of briars that noone wants to reach into anymore.

Anyway.

There is another thread "Opti", where you can find this post by opticuswrangler himself:

Iyam amazed that anyone recognized the thing that I wrote about. It isn't my own madness.

In maintaining necessary subjectivity, one finds a nebulous but sharp edge between wild eyed gullibility and stoic skepticism.

The more everyone else gets the joke the more stoic I can be.

I leave it to anyone to point out the stereotypical psychotic nature of the words.

Perhaps a little clue is given to us when opticuswrangler intimates to us a more than cursory knowledge about the works of Philip K. Dick in this post.

Finally, in chronological reverse, I would like to point out the thread titled The DMT Octopus in which opticuswrangler made his or her first appearance on this forum.

I am suggesting that interested people read at least these threads with some amount of suspended judgement before coming to conclusions.