1-propionyl-lysergic acid diethylamide

[entheogenic-gnosis]

1-propionyl-lysergic acid diethylamide ( 1P-LSD ) is said to hydrolyze in vivo into lysergic acid diethylamide similar to how ALD-52 is said to. Has there been any scientific confirmations of this speculation?

After review of a series of anecdotal reports it seems that this compound may in fact be an LSD pro-drug, however I have not been able to find sufficient pharmacological or scientific data to confirm these speculations.

This compound may become popular as a research chemical in the near future, and I have a good deal of interest in this compound, any scientific, pharmacological, or even anecdotal information in regard to 1P-LSD would be very much appreciated.

-EG

 

[1ce]

1-propionyl-lysergic acid diethylamide (1P-LSD) is said to hydrolyze in vivo into lysergic acid diethylamide similar to how ALD-52 is said to. Has there been any scientific confirmations of this speculation?

After review of a series of anecdotal reports it seems that this compound may in fact be an LSD pro-drug, however I have not been able to find sufficient pharmacological or scientific data to confirm these speculations.

This compound may become popular as a research chemical in the near future, and I have a good deal of interest in this compound, any scientific, pharmacological, or even anecdotal information in regard to 1P-LSD would be very much appreciated.

-EG

Still waiting on the advantage to taking this.

 

[eclipsedone]

I'm pretty sure the advantage lies in legality..

 

[concombres]

I'm pretty sure the advantage lies in legality..

Would 1P-lsd not fall under the analog act?

 

[Cognitive Heart]

From reports I've read this one yields some nice qualities unseen from previous compounds. Those curious should be cautioned due to changing laws surrounding new and fascinating drugs.

 

[null24]

The advantage for me would simply be in the fact that its LSD.

And yes it would fall into the analogue act, in America. The RC labs overseas can still produce it, and run a website, and.. .

 

[1ce]

It's illegal for the same reason bromo-lsd is illegal.

 

[concombres]

The advantage for me would simply be in the fact that its LSD.

And yes it would fall into the analogue act, in America. The RC labs overseas can still produce it, and run a website, and.. .

...aaaaand any idiot without the correct knowledge & tools will be able to grab up large quantites of pure powder & do with it as they please.
Then it goes schedule 1, gets a bad name, & dissppears quickly. Like some other rc's with active dosages in the sub miligram range.

 

[d*l*b]

The advantage for me would simply be in the fact that its LSD.

And yes it would fall into the analogue act, in America. The RC labs overseas can still produce it, and run a website, and.. .

...aaaaand any idiot without the correct knowledge & tools will be able to grab up large quantites of pure powder & do with it as they please.
Then it goes schedule 1, gets a bad name, & dissppears quickly. Like some other rc's with active dosages in the sub miligram range.

While that is certainly a possibility, it hasn’t been an issue with AL-LAD and LSZ. Hopefully it will stay relatively underground and not get too much attention.

If it is a pro-drug for LSD as info from a reputable chemist (from a thread on another site) has suggested then with any luck people taking large doses should not be as much an issue (at least from a physical safety point of view) as we saw with the NBOMES and other sub-milligram-dose materials.

As it stands 1P-LSD is not scheduled in the UK at the moment. I imagine it will get scheduled in the UK within a year or so.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Ok, I want to try to clear something up, I always thought that so long as the compound was not offered for human consumption, that it was not considered an analogue, are there some compounds that are seen as analogues even when not offered for human consumption? Are there situations where this loop-hole does not apply?

-EG

 

[d*l*b]

My understanding is that an analogue is an analogue. What makes it a scheduled analogue is written into the law, whether or not they are offered for consumption is not a part of the equation.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

legislature passed a law called the “Analogue Act”. Under this act the substance must: 1) have a “chemical structure” substantially similar to a controlled substance; 2) have, be intended to have, or represented as having “pharmacological effects” substantially similar to the controlled substance and must 3) be intended for “human consumption”.

In October 1986, the 99th Congress passed, and President Reagan signed, legislation called the "Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986." One of several sections of this Act is known as the "Controlled Substances Analogue Enforcement Act of 1986." Many states, including California, enacted legislation that essentially mimicked the wording of this Federal Law. What it does is to make the laws and regulations that are in place for controlling illegal acts with scheduled drugs equally applicable to unscheduled drugs, if these latter can be viewed as analogues. And to the extent that an analogue is intended for human consumption, it shall be treated as a Schedule I drug -A. Shulgin

On all of the RC vendor sites you will see "not for human consumption" on their products packaging and will see disclaimers on the site stating "our products are not intended for human consumption" the reason for this is because if the vendors offered their products for human consumption their products would be legally seen as analogues and therefore would be illegal under the federal analogue act.

I was hoping someone could clarify all this, having gone over the information above I would like to restate my original questions:

are there some compounds that are seen as analogues even when not offered for human consumption?

Are there situations where this loop-hole does not apply?

Sorry, I'm really trying to understand this, and apologize for asking the same questions twice.

-EG

 

[d*l*b]

Research chemicals, whether analogues of common scheduled substances or not, are typically sold with a notice that they are not for consumption. This means that producers and vendors do not have to deal with issues like the FDA over in the US. If somebody does consume them and something goes wrong then the supplier can say that the user was warned that it was not to be consumed, rather it was for research.

I don’t know how to state it more clearly — if the structure means it stands as a controlled substance under whatever analogue laws you have where you are it won’t suddenly become legal to produce, transport or sell just because it is not offered for consumption, unless you have a license to do so.

 

[concombres]

The advantage for me would simply be in the fact that its LSD.

And yes it would fall into the analogue act, in America. The RC labs overseas can still produce it, and run a website, and.. .

...aaaaand any idiot without the correct knowledge & tools will be able to grab up large quantites of pure powder & do with it as they please.
Then it goes schedule 1, gets a bad name, & dissppears quickly. Like some other rc's with active dosages in the sub miligram range.

While that is certainly a possibility, it hasn’t been an issue with AL-LAD and LSZ. Hopefully it will stay relatively underground and not get too much attention.

If it is a pro-drug for LSD as info from a reputable chemist (from a thread on another site) has suggested then with any luck people taking large doses should not be as much an issue (at least from a physical safety point of view) as we saw with the NBOMES and other sub-milligram-dose materials.

As it stands 1P-LSD is not scheduled in the UK at the moment. I imagine it will get scheduled in the UK within a year or so.

Yeah i thought that might be a problem. Looking into it though, lsz & AL-LAD as well as what i see for 1P-lsd are being sold on blotters & not as pure powder which is much safer.

That does not stop them from being sold on the street & someone eating a 10 strip of quality blotters & flipping out.

You are right though, i havn't come across these compounds in the u.s. But from the information available online they seem to be fairly underground leaning towards being a niche thing.
The people posting reports seem to be doing their research & using these compounds in a much more controlled fashion than the average braindead street buyer who consumes 10hits in a club bathroom.

This compound does look very interesting. I'm betting it won't make it to the u.s. Any time soon though

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Research chemicals, whether analogues of common scheduled substances or not, are typically sold with a notice that they are not for consumption. This means that producers and vendors do not have to deal with issues like the FDA over in the US. If somebody does consume them and something goes wrong then the supplier can say that the user was warned that it was not to be consumed, rather it was for research.

I don’t know how to state it more clearly — if the structure means it stands as a controlled substance under whatever analogue laws you have where you are it won’t suddenly become legal to produce, transport or sell just because it is not offered for consumption, unless you have a license to do so.

legislature passed a law called the “Analogue Act”. Under this act the substance must: 1) have a “chemical structure” substantially similar to a controlled substance; 2) have, be intended to have, or represented as having “pharmacological effects” substantially similar to the controlled substance and must 3) be intended for “human consumption”.

There are 3 legal requirements for a compound being seen as an analogue by the Fed. Analogue act. They are listed above, now consider the situation below:

Now say a chemical does not have a chemical structure similar to a scheduled compound ("similar in structure" is a term that leaves much room for debate), but the chemical produces effects identical to a scheduled compound, this chemical is seen by the law as an analogue, unless it is not represented as having action equal to a scheduled compound (by claiming that it was never intended for human consumption). By claiming that human consumption was never intended the Fed. Analogue act is circumvented.

Alexander shulgin discusses all this in depth in the "designer drugs" chapter of TIHKAL, but it's been long time since TIHKALs publication, and laws have undoubtedly changed since then.

Legislation is being enacted to close this loophole, below is an example:

BILL NUMBER:A6609

TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the general business law, in relation
to the sale and labeling of products not safe for human consumption

PURPOSE OR GENERAL IDEA OF BILL:

This bill has the dual purpose of closing a loop hole for enforcing
the Federal Analog Act (21 U.S.C. S 813) in New York State and also
protects public safety. Many new designer drugs label their products
"not safe for human consumption" to avoid enforcement under the
restrictive requirements of the Analog Act. However, they do not
reveal what chemical compounds are being used in their production, as
responsible manufacturers already do. When people are hurt by these
products, doctors and poison control are inhibited in their care by
being unable to pinpoint the poisoning agent. This bill requires that
products labeled "not safe for human consumption" also state their
ingredients and active chemicals.

I'm not a law student, so I was hoping that someone could clarify the current legal situation regarding analogue compounds. I'm not ignorantly asking questions, I've been going over the federal analogue act in the little free time I have had in the last few days, the legal language is vague and unspecified, and there are many situations were compounds can slip through the 3 legal requirements for what makes a compound an analogue.

-EG

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

It is generally accepted that if two of these three definitions are met (1.structure 2. Action 3. Human consumption) then the chemical or drug in question becomes a controlled substance analogue. The law explicitly states that there are four criteria, any of which will exclude it from becoming an analogue; if it is already a controlled substance, if it has an approved drug application, if a particular person has an exemption allowing him investigational use of that drug in question, or it is not intended for human consumption -Alexander shulgin

-EG

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Why quote Shulgin?

The Federal Analogue Act, 21 U.S.C. § 813, is a section of the United States Controlled Substances Act passed in 1986 which allowed any chemical "substantially similar" to a controlled substance listed in Schedule I or II to be treated as if it were also listed in those schedules, but only if intended for human consumption.

Federal Analogue Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802) is
amended by adding at the end thereof the following:
(32) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), the term ''controlled substance analogue'' means [...]

(B) Such term does not include -
(i) a controlled substance;
(ii) any substance for which there is an approved new drug application;
(iii) with respect to a particular person any substance, if an exemption is in effect for investigational use, for that person, under section 355 of this title to the extent conduct with respect to such substance is pursuant to such exemption; or
(iv) any substance to the extent not intended for human consumption before such an exemption takes effect with respect to that substance.

* p. 15: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-100/pdf/STATUTE-100-Pg3207.pdf
* http://www.fda.gov/regulatoryinformation/legislation/ucm148726.htm

No consumption, no controlled substance analogue.

The real question is: how can the state prosecutor prove consumption?

Because:

* You are a collector of rare substances. Like an action hero toy collector, never wanting to open the box.
* You want to practice your HPLC skills. Hence the name research chemicals.

In both cases, no consumption is intended.

 

[d*l*b]

Thank you for the information and my apologies for clouding the conversation, I am in the UK and our laws are quite different over here.

We have regulation with regard to some analogues of more common psychoactives, as well as analogues that are named specifically which fall outside of older parts of the law. Consumption doesn’t come into it, you need a licence to work with these substances legally.

Attached there is a document which spells out a lot of the regulation of tryptamines and lysergide-related compounds here, this is the document that ensured AL-LAD, LSZ and others got scheduled over here early this year.

 

[Orion]

Good luck writing a safety profile for this one... All the info I can find is very recent anecdotes. A few experience reports from guinea pigs, and a few mentions that it may be a pro-drug for LSD. Some disagree with this for various reasons. I don't really think it's a good idea to take something where there is so little information available.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Thank you for the information and my apologies for clouding the conversation, I am in the UK and our laws are quite different over here.

Good to have an international viewpoint here.

Good luck writing a safety profile for this one... All the info I can find is very recent anecdotes. A few experience reports from guinea pigs, and a few mentions that it may be a pro-drug for LSD. Some disagree with this for various reasons. I don't really think it's a good idea to take something where there is so little information available.

I started a Wiki page with the sources I came across:

1P-LSD - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me