16 Years on Chronic Weed // A Historical Anecdotal Analysis (Plans to Quit)

[Panpsychic]

One love

Yes, there were times when 'small beer' was drunk as a safe alternative to water even by children, although clean water was usually widely available in most regions. They weren't drunk usually or in an altered state though was my point even if drinking this low alcohol water beer.

Were People in Medieval Times Always Drunk?

It’s often said that people during the Middle Ages, a period that lasted from roughly the end of the fifth century through the 15th century, drank beer instead of water because the drinking water at the time was dirty and unsafe. It would beg the question: Were people in medieval times always...

historyfacts.com

Still, some Sadhus are constantly high on Bhang and energetic also so that would probably be a more relevant comparison.

 

[blig-blug]

This is somewhat of a tangent, but Escohotado mentions in "General History of Drugs" that during the Classical period in Greece there was debate among different philosophy schools as to whether someone truly wise would refrain from getting drunk, or would get drunk but not say or do stupid things.

 

[Panpsychic]

What if I told you that, while I can go about my day getting things done just fine, it's more seamless when a little cannabis is in my system? [Weird note: As I wrote that sentence I had a weird moment of deja vu of deja vu.]

Sure, adaptation and maybe a bit like micro or minidosing acid or shrooms.

What really influence my changa use was two-fold. My perception that there were some that were able to get away with bouts of regularity and, as you are familiar with my friend, the call. There was a period where the frequency of it increased. Even if I didn't feel like it or want to. I don't have to answer, and I don't always, but when it calls and I do, oh boy...

Yes, if its about adhering strictly to the call...then I must admit my usage would be more frequent.

Like I said, I definitely dont think the frequency of Changa is a problem or that it should generally tend to being problematic in the way cannabis does for many people. In fact it would interesting if that sharp, clear awareness was brought in more regularly and intentionally with a meditative approach which is what it tends toward.

 

[Voidmatrix]

They weren't drunk usually or in an altered state though was my point even if drinking this low alcohol water beer.

You don't think there was a slight alteration of consciousness? I always assumed they weren't drunk or inebriated, but just, a little off of whatever the baseline would be if they weren't drinking it.

Still, some Sadhus are constantly high on Bhang and energetic also so that would probably be a more relevant comparison.

I'd have to say so, I almost have the hair for it! (See @Pandora profile)

One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

Sure, adaptation and maybe a bit like micro or minidosing acid or shrooms.

Could be those things, could be it happens to work well for my default system. I'm a wiry anxious guy.

Like I said, I definitely dont think the frequency of Changa is a problem or that it should generally tend to being problematic in the way cannabis does for many people. In fact it would interesting if that sharp, clear awareness was brought in more regularly and intentionally with a meditative approach which is what it tends toward.

Oh I know you don't, but I ponder on it regularly and I've whined about it a lot. I'm damn close to getting over that hill though. However, I shared that mainly in response to your correlation between my cannabis use and changa use.

Can you elaborate a bit more on your last sentence? I would like to make sure I am understanding it correctly.

Yes, if its about adhering strictly to the call...then I must admit my usage would be more frequent.

I mean weren't you the one who asked me a while back something to the effect of how could I not heed the call

One love

 

[CosmicRiver]

Sorry guys, i see people on both sides getting defensive. Having quit weed i know i'm biased and i try not to participate in this kind of discussion. I get annoyed when people are (from my point of view) addicted and deny it, because i see my old mindset in them, or maybe because they make me second-guess my decision to quit. People who smoke would in turn get annoyed by me saying this thing. I don't know who's right. I think we have doubts on both sides, otherwise we wouldn't get annoyed and defensive.

 

[Voidmatrix]

To clarify, I'm not annoyed or defensive, but having fun. I think that it's valuable to have these exchanges.

All the same, I am sorry if my stance and/or my statements offended you made you doubt yourself in anyway. That was not my intention.

I don't know who's right.

And that's the thing, know one knows what is right for someone else. It's contextual and subjective and only the individual can truly know if what they're doing is right for them. But that's a moving marker, as change is constant and we are no exception, hence we ought to be in constant reflection about such things.

Sorry also if I annoyed anyone else

One love

 

[blig-blug]

And that's the thing, know one knows what is right for someone else. It's contextual and subjective and only the individual can truly know if what they're doing is right for them.

Fully agree. And even if it were possible to know, it would be worthless to try to convince someone else, maybe barring close friends and family (there it may be occasionally not impossible).

That's why early on I said

So I would personally like for the discussion to go more towards the personal side of weed addiction and quitting weed, and less towards judging the actions of others. That doesn't mean that there aren't people who are ruining their lives from weed addiction while being blind to it, there are. But setting ourselves as judges won't help them, and won't bring anything good, other than maybe some temporary pleasure in "not being one of those".

 

[CosmicRiver]

To clarify, I'm not annoyed or defensive, but having fun. I think that it's valuable to have these exchanges.

All the same, I am sorry if my stance and/or my statements offended you made you doubt yourself in anyway. That was not my intention.


And that's the thing, know one knows what is right for someone else. It's contextual and subjective and only the individual can truly know if what they're doing is right for them. But that's a moving marker, as change is constant and we are no exception, hence we ought to be in constant reflection about such things.

Sorry also if I annoyed anyone else

One love

Not a problem at all. You know i have this friend i used to smoke with. I quit and he didn't. We talk about this very often, and we question each other. That's healthy. I thought you were defensive, but on a forum it's difficult to understand the tone of a message. But it was no big deal

 

[fink]

Sober state. Well, I can tell you that when completely sober I can fluctuate between a soft and gentle creature all the way through 1000 different states up to an unreasonable murderous rage.

So altered states, to me, seem to be the baseline. Adding one more state to that library with a molecule or two seems to not make much difference.

My line in the sand is when I hate the thing clinging to my back but keep doing it anyway. Then I know I have to stop. I don't drink alcohol at all anymore for that very reason.

 

[Jamie01]

I understand but...


Let's be real, are these really addictions (which is what I was trying to highlight by my functional spiel)?

In relation to surfing and skateboarding I think it is a real addiction for me and a lot of other people. There is a clear dopamine component and if I haven’t surfed in a week I do start to feel agitated and crave it pretty bad. When I was a kid skateboarding was the only think I felt I was good at and it quickly became my entire identity. I lacked any real social skills but I was good enough to have sponsors and be competing in that world and so by default it was my social circle. I never wanted to let go of that world and so didn’t. There is a real attachment to the whole thing even in my 40s. I can’t let it go. Surfing can consume huge chunks of my life and I will go to ends that seem crazy to other people to do it. I get annoyed if I have to make plans a week ahead for anything because I don’t have a solid wave report for the week yet. It’s probly the most consuming of my addictions.

 

[Voidmatrix]

In relation to surfing and skateboarding I think it is a real addiction for me and a lot of other people. There is a clear dopamine component and if I haven’t surfed in a week I do start to feel agitated and crave it pretty bad. When I was a kid skateboarding was the only think I felt I was good at and it quickly became my entire identity. I lacked any real social skills but I was good enough to have sponsors and be competing in that world and so by default it was my social circle. I never wanted to let go of that world and so didn’t. There is a real attachment to the whole thing even in my 40s. I can’t let it go. Surfing can consume huge chunks of my life and I will go to ends that seem crazy to other people to do it. I get annoyed if I have to make plans a week ahead for anything because I don’t have a solid wave report for the week yet. It’s probly the most consuming of my addictions.

Thank you so much for sharing. I feel you I really do, but there's still something different about this to me than an addiction.

Let's shift it to people who are actually addicted to working out. Aside from how it informs their identity by the act, the felt value of the act, and the community (similar to skateboarding), they can't stop when it becomes a detriment to them, such as when they enter overtraining, or get rhabdo, or muscle catabolism.

What it sounds like to me is  passion, kinda like I mentioned to @Varallo in another thread. Becoming moody in this way is because meaning seems to be removed from life for a period of time. That's different than addiction. But if we want to call that addiction, then everyone should be addicted

Using myself as an example, I love going to the gym. It helps me get right, interact with community, etc. I get moody when I don't go, with a little bit of disappointment. I don't think that means I'm an addict. I'm passionate. Once I learned about some of my current ailments, I changed my frequency and routine.

All the same, everything I just said comes from a place of love, care, and a passion to help others with their own perspectives (you've certainly been helpful in that way for me) but at the end of the day, I'm not here to change your mind brother.

One love

 

[Jamie01]

This sounds like semantics though. I agree with you I am just allowing the term addiction to apply to me as others might apply it. It doesn’t bother me but I don’t feel it’s an adequate label either.

 

[Voidmatrix]

This sounds like semantics though. I agree with you I am just allowing the term addiction to apply to me as others might apply it. It doesn’t bother me but I don’t feel it’s an adequate label either.

I feel you. And apologies, the philosopher in me will always do thr semantics dance, as in philosophy it's always important, but may not have been apt here.

One love

 

[Jamie01]

Lol no need to apologize. Everything you have said has been received with nothing but appreciation from my end void

 

[Jan e Kharabat]

I think a lot of things have been a bit mixed up in the above discussion. Following were the main arguments (do add if I'm missing something):
- daily and frequent use of psychoactive substances and weed in particular.
In fact, this thread ought to focus primarily on weed because every substance is different. For a more meaningful discussion, we should limit the scope.
- daily and frequent use (let's call it addiction) among people who aren't highly functional, who suffer from debilitating effects from their addiction.
- the value of being sober as a default state.

I know about 12 people who smoke nearly every day and quite excessively. Of those 12, only 1 person is highly functional. I would say he can smoke all be wants, he's won the lottery of being genetically or however the predisposed this way. He can smoke up multiple joints of the kind of stuff which would leave me lying on the floor after just two tokes (not exaggerating!), and he still stays the same, happy, jolly and sharp minded. He has been smoking since school, and he has done a PhD even, the guy is obviously brilliant!
The rest of the 11 are the exact opposite. Of these 12 people, 4 are my housemates, I live with them and know their every day lives. With the rest, I have contact at least once a week. I want to stress this point again and again, for the vast majority, weed doesn't work so wonderfully, it causes serious issues. Most of those people deny it and say they're doing great, while they're clearly not. We ought to bear this in mind and be careful about our natives and how it could effect others.

 

[Thierr7]

- It always amazed me to see how some ppl indeed , can manage to have a life and do a good job , stay focused while smoking weed everyday , starting in the morning !
It's probably a minority and the big majority , including myself got wasted !

That's why i quitted smoking at least two decades for i couldn't resist having a joint in the morning even though i knew it would ruin my day . Probably a bit of a masochist behaviour ...

About ten years ago I managed somehow to only smoke one or two joints in the late evenings but given the strenght of weed today , it's still addictive ...

Like any compound , the quantity you take everyday makes a big difference i guess !

 

[Voidmatrix]

We ought to bear this in mind and be careful about our natives and how it could effect others.

Who do you feel is not bearing this in mind?

One love

 

[newusername1]

Not to derail this thread, but i'm curious if people here have also felt that frequent cannabis usage has somehow affected their psychedelic journeys as well.

I think that for me this probably has been the case, though i'm not 100% sure if there is indeed a causal relation. But the times i used weed chronically, i think my experiences used to be more superficial.
But maybe it even goes further than that, because i don't use cannabis on a daily base anymore, but i've used cannabis once on a day prior to taking ayahuasca and another time the day before taking LSD, and those two experiences also where somehow lacking in a way.

 

[Jan e Kharabat]

Who do you feel is not bearing this in mind?

One love

The thread was about cannabis addiction, it's debilitating effects, the difficulties in quitting and the likely pitfalls and biases which make this process more difficult. The discussion of how it is not a problem for everyone, and how there are exceptions, people who function well despite their high and regular use, leads us off the main issue. When a person with a long history talks about their struggles, I think their issues should take the foreground. The acknowledgement of this problem and it's complexities and difficulties should be the main focus.
The other issue is, as I already mentioned, weed is too often perceived as a harmless substance. We ought to be careful how our narrative may strengthen that view. It is not a harmless substance, and it's frequent use can be very debilitating and that is true for most people, even if there are many exceptions to this. If it works wonderfully for you, and you talk about it without a clear disclaimer that this is not usually the case, someone else might feel assured in their view and feel encouraged to continue on with their consumption.