I likewise have never made a great deal of progress with concentration based practices despite doing them for many years. However part of this is lack of consistency so I think more effort could be made and the effort to live mindfully also.
However what you say about the much more effortless presence of the witness after 5-Meo makes a lot of sense also, and what you mentioned about kind of 'stepping out of your own way' and coming from that place and noticing the resistance that you can subsequently work on.
I had not come across Adyashanti's teachings, but it does sound very much like the Zen approach of direct presence. Again, whats Interesting about this, similar to the Kundalini insights is that we are looking at this from a 'top down' perspective. Rather than strugglihg for years trying to master different meditation approaches and find which is helpful, the 5-MeO is granting you direct access to the gates of the summit and from there you can see which means are valid and most helpful. This wouldn't obviously invalidate other approaches which work for many but it is interesting how the experience seems to resonate more with certain practices than with others.
For sure, it's extremely interesting. Very revolutionary to one's method of practice. It almost becomes like loosening your grip instead of always trying to tighten it.
I wonder if you see any value still in concentration based practices at all, or even if such states of concentration have become more accessible now outside tripping or just naturally arise as part of your 5-Meo use?
I do think there's value in practices focused strictly on concentration. For people who have natural talent with them, they seem to be able to take you to the same depths as 5-MeO-DMT in terms of jhana/samadhi. But as you guessed, the necessary amount of concentration becomes baked in as part of the manifesting of the natural state. To me, it seems like concentration practices are somewhat of a biohack to reach that point, whereas this other method I'm describing feels more like the way it was intended to be done by whatever force created these mechanisms in the human form.
Now this is very interesting. Partly also beacuse we do seem to hear often from 5 advocates how it supposedly 'surpasses DMT' in many important ways (although you have specified this is more in its tendency towards triggering selfless states) but here it would seem that in this important domain it is the DMT or at least Harmala and DMT that is more useful or powerful in elucidating this terrain.
From someone such as yourself experienced with both I suppose I do find it a bit odd that if you are being granted direct experience of the Absolute and cessation of self identity, would that not resolve doubts about the existence of being beyond the individual body-mind construct?
Yeah, I guess I've held back a little bit in terms of what I really believe. Personally, I've had no doubt as to the multidimensional, consciousness-based nature of reality for like 20 years. I was lucky enough to have some spontaneous spiritual experiences in my early 20s that instantly changed me from an agnostic to someone who couldn't believe more in the possibility of gnosis. It's true that I still don't have a clear picture of what an afterlife looks like, and my transcendent experiences with psychedelics seem to indicate that it may be beyond my ability to even imagine it. But I have literally no doubt it exists, by whatever form.
Again, I can't comment on the 5-MeO-DMT but yes from my perspective the Harmala with DMT experiences have shown me repeatedly the impossibility of subjectivity or base consciousness 'ceasing' as its a part of the structure of reality itself. Further that this presence which is somehow connected to, yet apart from conditioned reality has many gradations and is in its highest sense what is termed in some traditions as the 'Absolute' which is our final destiny when the work of purifying the mind and liberating it from involvement in temporal identity is done. If the process is not completed it will naturally lead to rebecoming, since consciousness cannot cease on some level with the demise of the body.
So it is surprising to hear that 5-Meo has not granted more insight into this or similar insights but rather seems to not be its primary focus.
You hit the nail on the head with that last point. 5-MeO-DMT's primary insight is in the realm of the causal. Cosmic understandings do arise, but they're of the nature that, at that level of consciousness, everything is an illusion of sorts that you've created in your own all-encompassing infinite/eternal mind, which seems to be the only thing that exists anywhere, ever. This understanding doesn't come as like a few casual thoughts, but like a divine certainty booming out in the form of a transcendent knowing. The knowing itself is a fundamental part of reality at that level of consciousness, as if it's built into the foundations. You are that knowing. Really wild stuff.
Like I mentioned, 5-MeO-DMT has a primary focus in the causal. And in my experience, DMT, as well as practically all other psychedelics, has a primary focus in the subtle. That's not necessarily to say they can't intermingle. I've seen plenty of trip reports where people get a taste of the whiteout with DMT, LSD, and others. It's just that 5-MeO-DMT is so targeted to that level that it really stands apart in terms of its contents. You'll quickly know what I mean if you try it.
I've mentioned terms like subtle and causal. They're part of the Vedanta map of consciousness that I use to understand altered states, including those initiated by psychedelics. The model may seem overly simple, but it's proven to be so helpful at differentiating levels of experience. Even a non-spiritually-practicing person passes through these levels on a daily basis via the sleep process, though they do it unconsciously.
Here's a quick AI regurgitation to lay out the basics:
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Vedanta Hinduism indeed uses a model of mind and self that divides it into three bodies: the Gross Body (Sthula Sharira), the Subtle Body (Sukshma Sharira), and the Causal Body (Karana Sharira). This model correlates closely with the states of waking, dreaming, and deep sleep.
- Gross Body (Sthula Sharira): This is the physical body made of the five gross elements—space, air, fire, water, and earth. It corresponds to the waking state, where the individual interacts with the external world through the senses.
- Subtle Body (Sukshma Sharira): Composed of subtle elements, it includes the mind (manas), intellect (buddhi), ego, and vital energies. The subtle body is responsible for thoughts, emotions, desires, and mental functions. It correlates with the dreaming state, where the mind is active but not in contact with the gross physical world
- Causal Body (Karana Sharira): The subtlest body, it is the seed or cause of the other two bodies and is associated with ignorance (avidya) and deep impressions (samskaras). It corresponds to the deep sleep state, characterized by the absence of mental activity and duality, and reflects the bliss of the Self (Atman). This state is described as undifferentiated and beginningless ignorance, where the mind and intellect are dormant
- Waking (Jagrat): Dominated by the gross body and external sensory experience.
- Dreaming (Svapna): Dominated by the subtle body, where mental activity continues without physical input.
- Deep Sleep (Sushupti): Dominated by the causal body, where both gross and subtle bodies are dormant, and there is a blissful, undifferentiated state without mental activity
In summary, Vedanta Hinduism models the mind and self as comprising three bodies—gross, subtle, and causal—that correspond respectively to waking, dreaming, and deep sleep states of consciousness
Even merely touching that state while using only sober meditation seems like quite a feat.
