A/B Extraction of Kratom?

[idtravlr]

I'm no chemist, so don't give me too much grief for asking this question, but does anyone know what would happen if one did an A/B extraction on Kratom? Could you get a freebase form of mitragynine and other active alks in Kratom, or would you just get garbage. I know that the high tech Kratom guys use a high pressure CO2 extraction process to get pure alkaloids, but I've never heard of any kind of A/B or acid based salt extraction. Is that because it's a pointless effort? Just curious...

Peace,
-idt

 

[1992]

Just do an alcohol extraction, pulverize plant material cover with IPA give the alkaloids a chance to go into solution evap IPA and voila, enjoy your crude lump of kratom alkaloids.

 

[soxy bastard]

It works but gives low yields. the product I got was a orange clean crystalline solid that was most effective ~75-100mg A kilo only made just a very few doses. I did a STB extracted with xylene and HCl salted.
SB

 

[Infundibulum]

An A/B would work in theory. Of course, with compounds like this where little is known one has to take many variables into consideration, like possible heat degradation, very low/very high pH degradation as well as NP solvent of choice.

If SWIM was ever to do a mitragynine extraction he'd do A/B, with the acid part done in acetic acid at room temperature for few hours/pull, he'd basify with sodium carbonate to pH no more than 10 and he'd pull with a good generic solvent like DCM or chloroform.

He then he'd play around with factors to see what is good and what is bad for the extraction.

 

[idtravlr]

An A/B would work in theory. Of course, with compounds like this where little is known one has to take many variables into consideration, like possible heat degradation, very low/very high pH degradation as well as NP solvent of choice.

Ahhhhh!:idea: Now I understand why there is so little information this out there. There really IS just not enough information known about the organic makeup of this plant. The information isn't really out there, because it's rarely been done. Thanks Infundibulum.

Soxy B - Are you saying you only got 75mg - 100mg per kilo?! Or was that the active dose?

I sure wish I had a nice lab setup. This would be such a fun plant to play around with and isolate the various alkaloids. It's such a complex entheogen.

Thanks for the info guys!
Peace!
-idt
P.S. 1992 - I've done acid, water and alcohol extractions as well, but am interested in ways of isolating specific alks. I'm really surprised more work hasn't been done in this area, given the big money potential (which for the record, is absolutely NOT my motivation, just an observation).

 

[benzyme]

I can see why it would be sensitive

the molecule looks it has a chiral carbon; analogous to LSD, harsh environments may cause it to isomerize into some inactive compounds.

I never realized it's a tetrahydro-beta-carboline derivative

 

[1992]

ah, my apologies idtravlr... I thought you were just looking to make ingestion easier for yourself. I don't have any real info to give you on isolating specific alks. Good luck though

 

[acolon_5]

I'm no chemist, so don't give me too much grief for asking this question, but does anyone know what would happen if one did an A/B extraction on Kratom? Could you get a freebase form of mitragynine and other active alks in Kratom, or would you just get garbage. I know that the high tech Kratom guys use a high pressure CO2 extraction process to get pure alkaloids, but I've never heard of any kind of A/B or acid based salt extraction. Is that because it's a pointless effort? Just curious...

Peace,
-idt

If done correctly with good material a decent yield of HIGH potency extract can be had.

My A/B was on 112g of complete shite kratom and I endeds up with 1/2g. 100mg had me actually nodding and this is when I had a bit of tolerance.

I used water/vinegar as my polar solvent and did a bit of heating.

I do not advise using a non-polar solvent, simply add base (I used ammonia) and filter the precipitate.

 

[AluminumFoilRobots]

hmm this is interesting! Unfortunately I don't have any advice or observations as I've never gOne farther than the crude resinous extract, but I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

If I may ask, what is your motivation here? Pure novelty? The reason I ask is that I have always felt that kratom's particular magic is in the mIx of alkaloids, not simply the mu-opioid agonists. The fact that it has a stimulant-dominate dose AND a opioid-dominant dose has always been a plus for me. As well as the various medicinal effects of the secondary alkaloids and the antioxidant fraction is a plus for me too!
Also the utility as an aide in Opiate addiction is helped by the self-limiting nature of the stuff (both in the difficulty of taking the leaf and the opioid receptor antagonist contained in the leaves)...

So I guess I'll actually be stickin to plain leaf! Good luck on the enterprise though, I love this forum for this kind of novel discussion!

 

[acolon_5]

If I may ask, what is your motivation here? .....

Also the utility as an aide in Opiate addiction is helped by the self-limiting nature of the stuff (both in the difficulty of taking the leaf and the opioid receptor antagonist contained in the leaves)...

So I guess I'll actually be stickin to plain leaf! Good luck on the enterprise though, I love this forum for this kind of novel discussion!

By all means stick with the leaf! The plain leaf, as you said, is self limiting. The extracts I have made have this safety taken off...and it is easy to go way overboard and nod off 1/2 the day or spend it over a toilet.

The extracts, in some, can cause complusive use....However they also give a much more opiated feeling without the nasty side effects that come from ingesting too much leaf.

Still, I have found that an A/B extract comes ALOT closer to leaf than commercial extracts I have had. Most seem to be missing something important.

 

[Shrabbit420]

My A/B was on 112g of complete shite kratom and I endeds up with 1/2g. 100mg had me actually nodding and this is when I had a bit of tolerance.

I used water/vinegar as my polar solvent and did a bit of heating.

I do not advise using a non-polar solvent, simply add base (I used ammonia) and filter the precipitate.

Care to elaborate a bit more on this tek?

What was the water/vinegar ratio?
And how much ammonia was used? was it a specific amount per ml of solution? or just slowly add it until precipitate stops forming?

 

[AluminumFoilRobots]

So, regarding the efficacy of the A/B extraction vs the commercial extracts usually available. I found, after recently making a resinous Kratom extraction. When it was totally dry I ground up some to a powder and it looked exactly like a 15X extract that I had ordered from a reputable vendor with fairly good kratom. The vendor talks their "full-spectum" up, and I think that it is simply a water-extracted resin that is powdered. And it is 14 dollars for 4 grams, come on! You can so easily make that much for like 2 dollars or less yourself.

Goes to show ya the benefit of home extraction! :thumb_up: