A Guaranteed Bad Trip

[Nathanial.Dread]

So this is kind of a weird question, but I've been wondering about it for a while, so here it goes: are there any drugs that are guaranteed to produce unpleasant experiences?

There are plenty of drugs, such as opioid or stimulants that trigger the reward center of the brain, so so always produce euphoric experiences (I'm not coming out in favor of H or coke, just speaking about their chemistry).

Presumably, then, there should be drugs who's actions on the brain produce dysphoria or anxiety.
I'm thinking about some kind of reverse benzodiazapine? I did a little web research, but there's practically nothing out there. The only thing I could find is the suggestion that a GABA-A inverse antagonist would probably produce crippling anxiety.

I'm not looking so source any of these, as I can't imagine they're good for anything but torture, but as a psychopharmacology student, I'm interested in the theory.

 

[universecannon]

I saw a video of a blind study in europe where they gave a woman THC without telling her, and then the next day gave her THC along with the other cannabinoids in pot. When she was given just the thc she had a bad experience and was filled with anxiety. She loved the THC + cannabinoids though, and couldn't stop laughing

salvia pretty reliably induces bad trips in some people, but i think much of that has to do with bad sets/settings and the general high level of ignorance surrounding the plant and how to work with it. I've had some amazing trips but also a handful of horrific ones with it, but the bad were mostly due to an off set/setting

 

[DeDao]

Datura maybe?

 

[Metanoia]

salvia pretty reliably induces bad trips in some people, but i think much of that has to do with bad sets/settings and the general high level of ignorance surrounding the plant and how to work with it. I've had some amazing trips but also a handful of horrific ones with it

This, pretty much. People have abused it and had horrific experiences. Salvia is not something to be toyed with. It's as if it (the plant itself, the "spirit" ) becomes angry and teaches you a lesson. Might sound crazy to a psychopharmacology student, but take a large dose of it sometime without any preparation. Like at a party or somewhere else equally unsuitable.

Even in rather small doses Salvia can be pretty dysphoric. The physical feeling itself is pretty uncomfortable and unpleasant, which your mind follows and creates terrifying experiences.

I've thought about it before as your body rejecting the salvinorin. Because you seem to go through this whole detoxification thing when you hit it. Profuse sweating and such.

That said, I love it. Probably because I have the habit of putting myself through pain and difficult experiences.

 

[jamie]

I actaully find salvia pretty comforting and womb like.

High dose cannabis gives me anxiety every time.

 

[Metanoia]

I actaully find salvia pretty comforting and womb like.

I feel this way a lot as well, but that's after years of regular usage. When you're unfamiliar with it and you're suddenly thrust into this experience, it's pretty standard for people to feel uncomfortable and dysphoric.

 

[Apoc]

meth is pretty much guaranteed to give you a bad trip in life. It actually is a drug that is accurate in a sense to that old commercial that says "this is your brain on drugs". It is known to cause permanent brain damage.

Datura is pretty much guaranteed to give a bad trip. Never heard of anyone having a good trip from datura, but read many horror stories. Some people seem to be ok on small doses of datura.

 

[corpus callosum]

Im not sure if theres any compound thats absolutely guaranteed to give a bad trip ( but this cannot be fully excluded) especially as theres always going to be the occasional individual who may derive pleasure from what most people find unpleasant, but kappa receptor agonists such as salvinorin A and slightly obscure opioids such as pentazocine do have a greater than average tendency to be dysphoric.

 

[obliguhl]

but take a large dose of it sometime without any preparation. Like at a party or somewhere else equally unsuitable.

I've come to think that there is a lot of "testing" involved. During my first experience, i encountered these small white men but also other entities. One of them was some kind of a "bodyguard" for a bigger one and it kinda tried to fight the bodyguard off...as a result, the bigger entity put a huge ring through my nose and wore me on it's keyring. It wanted to humiliate me...and also the smaller white men seemed to play tricks on me. The next time i entered, they greeted me and were a lot friendlier "ohhh you have come....come..come...come with us usu su susuusususususu". Then i also got to ask them questions...

As for it being womb like...very much so. The door just CLOSES.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

anything can ensure a bad trip if the dosage is high enough.. :twisted:

 

[DeMenTed]

Yeah i was thinking that Parshvik

 

[wage.]

The chemical CCK-4 is supposed to be a potent anxiogenic.

CCK-4 - Wikipedia

 

[changalvia]

salvia pretty reliably induces bad trips in some people, but i think much of that has to do with bad sets/settings and the general high level of ignorance surrounding the plant and how to work with it. I've had some amazing trips but also a handful of horrific ones with it

This, pretty much. People have abused it and had horrific experiences. Salvia is not something to be toyed with. It's as if it (the plant itself, the "spirit" ) becomes angry and teaches you a lesson. Might sound crazy to a psychopharmacology student, but take a large dose of it sometime without any preparation. Like at a party or somewhere else equally unsuitable.

Even in rather small doses Salvia can be pretty dysphoric. The physical feeling itself is pretty uncomfortable and unpleasant, which your mind follows and creates terrifying experiences.

I've thought about it before as your body rejecting the salvinorin. Because you seem to go through this whole detoxification thing when you hit it. Profuse sweating and such.

That said, I love it. Probably because I have the habit of putting myself through pain and difficult experiences.

I feel EXACTLY the same.
Real interesting point about the body rejecting and thus the sweating.

For me Salvia and Spice go hand in hand. Both periodically, but salvia I do like... Once a month or every 3 months.. Naked.

I don't really feel it to be womb-like.. At all.

I started having the same theme.. Where I was connected to everything and everything was connected to me, and it all had conscious, and upon entering the salvia space it was like 'waking up' as a separate being, and then an epic struggle to tear myself out of the system ensues.

But yeah, Salvia, most people would call that a bad trip.

In another thread long ago I mentioned my use of it even during bad moods / frustration / depression. A lot of people disagreed with that idea but then that's just how I do it, it helps me break through a shit time when I feel normal again, and I appreciate my courage :d

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

The chemical CCK-4 is supposed to be a potent anxiogenic.

CCK-4 - Wikipedia

That is exactly what I'm looking for: things that, based on what they agonize or antagonize would be anxiogenic or dysphoriants.
Thanks.
It's interesting that they use that to reliably induce panic attacks: I wonder how much they have to pay their subject to make it worth it...

I had a terrible, terrible salvia trip, so I get what you're saying in regards to that. There's nothing quite like the feeling of breaking the entire universe.

A friend of mine loved a datura trip she went on, but there are always odd people.

Carbogen and L-DOPA seem like they also fit in this category.

Thanks, everyone.

 

[Metanoia]

I feel EXACTLY the same.
Real interesting point about the body rejecting and thus the sweating.

For me Salvia and Spice go hand in hand. Both periodically, but salvia I do like... Once a month or every 3 months.. Naked.

I don't really feel it to be womb-like.. At all.

I started having the same theme.. Where I was connected to everything and everything was connected to me, and it all had conscious, and upon entering the salvia space it was like 'waking up' as a separate being, and then an epic struggle to tear myself out of the system ensues.

But yeah, Salvia, most people would call that a bad trip.

In another thread long ago I mentioned my use of it even during bad moods / frustration / depression. A lot of people disagreed with that idea but then that's just how I do it, it helps me break through a shit time when I feel normal again, and I appreciate my courage :d

I think Salvia and Spice are perfect lovers as well. The ying to the yang. They compliment each other beautifully when you get the dosage right.

I go in naked too With two fans blasting. Sitting/laying on a yoga mat. Cause I sweat through my sheets on my bed.

Womb-like....I get what jamie means. It's that enveloping feeling you get. Also the unmistakable familiarity that's so common. "Hey, I've been here before."

I use Salvia to treat severe depression. It's the only thing that's essentially "cured" me of that crippling affliction. It works as a preventative measure, so I don't even feel depressed at all if I smoke it at least once or twice a month. I get in bad moods like everyone else, but the depression no longer controls my life.

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[Apoc]

I had a terrible, terrible salvia trip, so I get what you're saying in regards to that. There's nothing quite like the feeling of breaking the entire universe.

A friend of mine loved a datura trip she went on, but there are always odd people.

Carbogen and L-DOPA seem like they also fit in this category.

Where did you get the idea that l-dopa causes dysphora or bad trips. I've been taking l-dopa for about 6 months as an anti depressant. It's not dysphoric. On the contrary, it makes the world seem quite vibrant, and is a powerful sexual enhancer. Dopamine is a feel good neurotransmitter. Something like zyprexa, which is a dopamine antagonist, might cause dysphoria, through its action of reducing dopamine activity.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

A quick perusal of the Wikipedia page for Anxiogenics throws of L-DOPA as one of their examples.
It may be a dosage thing, or perhaps wiki is just wrong. It's totally possible.

 

[spinCycle]

Quinuclidinyl Benzilate aka BZ

3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Acid Dreams: BZ Bombs Away

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Thanks spinCycle, that's really interesting (and more then a little terrifying).
Chemical warfare is a messed up game.

 

[spinCycle]

Some more detailed info here...

3-Quinuclidinyl Benzilate Poisoning: Background, Pathophysiology, Epidemiology

The chemical warfare agent 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate (QNB, BZ) is an anticholinergic agent that affects both the peripheral and central nervous systems (CNS). It is one of the most potent anticholinergic psychomimetics known, with only small doses necessary to produce incapacitation.

emedicine.medscape.com

terrifying stuff