About enlightenment

[rjb]

I thought about this a lot, so here it is: how do enlightened people know they're enlightened? From where I'm standing, all we're doing is constantly improving ourselves, and redefining (refining would be a better word) who we are, so enlightenment is never actually achieved. So would it be fair to say that there's no such thing as enlightenment, and everyone who pretends to be enlightened is just acting on the attachment to the idea of it?

The way I see it, enlightenment is more like a constant progression, more like a way of life that brings you more into sync with everything, rather than something directly achievable (like an award or something).

 

[psychedelic]

I can't seem to grasp the ''enlightenment'' properly.
What I believe it is, is letting go of all attachments, realizing ''you'' are not who you've created and identified yourself to be. i.e. escaping all illusions and coming back to your true essence, where you have complete freedom to be/create in every moment. Being indifferent about everything, realizing that you can choose to ACCEPT every moment (but you don't have to AGREE) . Once you are not attached to any thought and realize you don't have to suffer and you can choose to be happy, you are ''enlightened''.

That's just how i feel.

 

[christian]

The way I see it, enlightenment is more like a constant progression, more like a way of life that brings you more into sync with everything, rather than something directly achievable (like an award or something).

To me, Enlightenment means knowing that we are divine beings acting out as human beings and always being aware of that knowledge in our everyday life, not fall prey to the irritations of trivialities, and see'ing them for what they are. It means always being in connection with higher self.:thumb_up:

 

[Tek]

Do you know how many people have tried to define enlightenment? I don't think it can really be done because first and foremost enlightenment transcends the language that seeks to define it. There are just no words to describe the state.

I believe I've had moments of enlightenment, both via the psychedelic approach and in some other surprising situations. Its one of those things that we seem to recognize when it happens, like you won't mistake the state of enlightenment for something else sort of like you couldn't mistake an orgasim for anything other than what it is. I'll do my best to describe what I think about the state the few times its come over me.

After he found enlightenment, the Buddha prescribed a middle of the road approach to life. I think that's a big hint to it right there and also explains why so few people achieve the state as a permanent thing. We really have a polarized society and we think in strict terms of duality. For instance, here is a pretty good example of the two different camps of thought. There are some people, these so-called 1% people, who for our purposes we can think of as the 'bad guys'. They are greedy and selfish, they don't value anything other than personal or monetary gain, they have limited spiritual vision, don't care about the planet, seek to suppress our human rights for their own ends, etc. you've all heard about these people and it'd be hard to deny there are people out there like that. Then you maybe have this other camp, the 99% (skewed numbers if you ask me) and they stand on the other side of that line. They want freedom, education, health, food, and safety for all. They promote equal rights and want to end the tyranny of the banking cartels and set the world free.

Now just looking at the two camps, you could gravitate towards either one, but notice that in our world its usually one or the other. You are either with us, or against us, as we say sometimes. So if you choose a camp, you instantly think poorly of everything the other camp stands for on principle. This is duality. The 99% define the 1%, and the 1% define the 99%. This is polarization.

An enlightened way of looking at it, imo, is that both of these sides are just opinions. There is no right or wrong being committed by either side since right and wrong only applies to duality, and the enlightened see past duality. As hard as this is for us to wrap our minds around sometimes, if you place any value judgment on ANYTHING in life then you are not in an enlightened state of mind. Quite literally, an enlightened person sees both sides as completely valid ways to live life, but as for them they will choose neither side. Sometimes this can seem callous on from our point of view, they don't seem to care at all for the pleasures or pains that come with life and this is puzzling. An enlightened person doesn't react, doesn't fall for the fiction of life on Earth, and such walks the middle road in life. It's a lot like having the disposition of a baby but the intelligence of an adult.

An enlightened person doesn't panic when new laws are passed stripping our freedoms, as the 'good guys' might do (be honest: how often have you thought or prayed for revolution against the tyranny of today?). They realize they are completely free regardless of what some other does or tries to inflict upon them. So you see, the 'good guys' don't understand the enlightened, and the 'bad guys' sure as hell don't, so no one understands what ground the enlightened sage stands upon. In fact he stands upon no ground at all, but is supported by his own unique perspective on life and by his choice not to get wrapped up in the drama of it.


Enlightenment is seeing through the illusion, like realizing you're in a play smack dab in the middle of the play, then making the choice to stop acting. The other actors are still so caught up in the show that they can't understand how someone could just stop; to them the show is real. The enlightened knows this is only a matter of perspective and as such, he can sort of sit back and enjoy the show since he realizes that's all it is.

 

[benzyme]

perhaps enlightenment is part of the illusion.. for if one claims to be enlightened, one is likely not. the so-called 'enlightened' person would more than likely try to distinguish him/herself as being at a "higher level of understanding" with spirituality, which isn't really any different than a lot of self-righteous religious fundamentalists.

 

[Citta]

perhaps enlightenment is part of the illusion.. for if one claims to be enlightened, one is likely not. the so-called 'enlightened' person would more than likely try to distinguish him/herself as being at a "higher level of understanding" with spirituality, which isn't really any different than a lot of self-righteous religious fundamentalists.

^^This.

"Before Enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After Enlightenment; chop wood, carry water"

 

[Tek]

perhaps enlightenment is part of the illusion.. for if one claims to be enlightened, one is likely not. the so-called 'enlightened' person would more than likely try to distinguish him/herself as being at a "higher level of understanding" with spirituality, which isn't really any different than a lot of self-righteous religious fundamentalists.

^^This.

"Before Enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After Enlightenment; chop wood, carry water"

It's a perspective shift to be sure. I like this one a little better: "Before I was enlightened I saw a tree. After I was enlightened I saw a tree." It's just a different way of interpreting your experience. Objective life does not change, however your relationship too it drastically changes.

 

[Walter D. Roy]

I think enlightenment is only a thing that we describe it by, we look at those people as higher being of understanding. They don't see it that way, because once they have reached this stage. They go back to the starting line, and "enlightenment" doesn't exist. They just are.

 

[No Knowing]

First there is a mountain.
Then there is no mountain.
Then there is.

This is my favorite quote on enlightenment from Zen. First we see the words we have been taught overlayed upon the raw energy itself. Then we see that this inner experience of an outer thing is really non-existent and up to us to define. Then the final stage is a synthesis of the real raw energy combined with out subjective inner experience of it.

 

[rjb]

Thanks Tek, I can totally resonate with everything you said. I was just a little confused about what one might feel in a state of enlightenment, but fortunately you answered my question. One might make a funny analogy and say that an enlightened person is just like a crazy one, strictly speaking in terms of the devotion each of them has for their own ideas.

The point I was trying to get at is that enlightenment is maybe a false illusion for the people who label it as such, and therefore try to seek it. You guys were already on the same page, from what I see. For the enlightened, there is no enlightenment. Only for those who aren't enlightened is there enlightenment. Funny how that works, isn't it?

First there is a mountain.
Then there is no mountain.
Then there is.

This is my favorite quote on enlightenment from Zen. First we see the words we have been taught overlayed upon the raw energy itself. Then we see that this inner experience of an outer thing is really non-existent and up to us to define. Then the final stage is a synthesis of the real raw energy combined with out subjective inner experience of it.

This is quite beautiful, thank you.