Amazing McKenna.

[fairbanks]

Me and you get into some fisticuffs, you're smarter than me, but I whoop that ass. Dominance doesn't necessarily mean greater intelligence. In terms of human species as a whole, our dominance actually can be defined by a lack of intelligence.

Here's a great movie, just for you MA: The Superior Human?

"The idea that humans are superior to all other life forms is a fundamental underlying premise of western culture. It is an old historical idea, rooted in colonialism, and is embedded in religion and science. It is one of the root causes for destruction of the natural world, animal cruelty, war, the extinction of species and other immense problems. The Superior Human? challenges this arrogant and self-destructive ideology; unwinds the myths, using examples and ‘common sense’."

 

[Doodazzle]

uhh what are YOU talking about? I never argued against us being the most dominant..I stated that this is true, but that this is NOT proof that we are the most intelligenmt. Please read my posts before responding.

So the dominant specie is not the most intelligent one. Interesting. I need to ask an opinion to my bottleneck dolphin friend. Oh wait, he can't write yet. I'll wait a couple of thousand years then.

All this started because I said I liked McKenna's theory of the stoned ape...

whatever it's snowing in Tahoe.

I've read that dolphins sleep one brain hemisphere at a time. Can you imagine consciousness as not a linear progression from less to more intelligence? One would think that the delphine mode of consciousness is utterly different than our own....should we debate which is "better"? Sleeping with half the brain awake--what's it like when they dream? Perhaps you can ask a bottlekneck friend all sorts of questions--but you may need to wait a few hundred thousand years till you evolve to it's "level".

Which is better, an apple or a pear? Which is more correct, your version of a particuliar deity or the next guys? Why is yellow? How intelligent is an ant? Is an ant even an individual--as a member of a seemingly collective mind comprised hundreds or more ants, what can we really know about it's mind?

It's easy to make assumptions.

Confucious say "quick to judge, slow to understand".

 

[mescaline-man]

*

 

[MindRider]

ANd your point is? WIth all respect for dolphins and all the other beings populating the planet, none of them has the intelligence to modify their own environment, build technology, or escape the food chain... But you are saying the they are better? What does it means? Better for what? Me evolve at a dolphin level? And I am the quick to judge? You make no sense at all.

uhh what are YOU talking about? I never argued against us being the most dominant..I stated that this is true, but that this is NOT proof that we are the most intelligenmt. Please read my posts before responding.

So the dominant specie is not the most intelligent one. Interesting. I need to ask an opinion to my bottleneck dolphin friend. Oh wait, he can't write yet. I'll wait a couple of thousand years then.

All this started because I said I liked McKenna's theory of the stoned ape...

whatever it's snowing in Tahoe.

I've read that dolphins sleep one brain hemisphere at a time. Can you imagine consciousness as not a linear progression from less to more intelligence? One would think that the delphine mode of consciousness is utterly different than our own....should we debate which is "better"? Sleeping with half the brain awake--what's it like when they dream? Perhaps you can ask a bottlekneck friend all sorts of questions--but you may need to wait a few hundred thousand years till you evolve to it's "level".

Which is better, an apple or a pear? Which is more correct, your version of a particuliar deity or the next guys? Why is yellow? How intelligent is an ant? Is an ant even an individual--as a member of a seemingly collective mind comprised hundreds or more ants, what can we really know about it's mind?

It's easy to make assumptions.

Confucious say "quick to judge, slow to understand".

 

[MindRider]

Our dominance is defined by our technology, art, history, literature, architecture, poetry, explorations of this and other planets, exploration of our minds, chemistry, physics, mathematics.

Find me another specie on the planet as capable and we can talk about it. Sorry, we have the responsibility and the burden of the planet. Not ants, not whales. Us. Dominance absolutely means more intelligence. which means survival.
and the capacity to build a weapon or a trap, and catch or kill a bigger and stronger opponent.

Me and you get into some fisticuffs, you're smarter than me, but I whoop that ass. Dominance doesn't necessarily mean greater intelligence. In terms of human species as a whole, our dominance actually can be defined by a lack of intelligence.

Here's a great movie, just for you MA: The Superior Human?

"The idea that humans are superior to all other life forms is a fundamental underlying premise of western culture. It is an old historical idea, rooted in colonialism, and is embedded in religion and science. It is one of the root causes for destruction of the natural world, animal cruelty, war, the extinction of species and other immense problems. The Superior Human? challenges this arrogant and self-destructive ideology; unwinds the myths, using examples and ‘common sense’."

 

[jamie]

"Dominance absolutely means more intelligence"

Source?

This is just a naive statement to make, for obvious reasons.

Dominance might mean a different kind of intelligence, but not necessarily more intelligence.

...and you do know, that we have not escaped the food chain right?..cus that really does not make any sense. Are you a breatharian?

You can go look at the research done on cetacean intelligence if you want to..everything is there to conclude that they have a capacity for intelligence that matches our own. You can refute this all you want with more fallacy arguements but it does not really hold up against scientific data tht claims otherwise.

 

[fairbanks]

none of them has the intelligence to modify their own environment, build technology, or escape the food chain...

How is this intelligent if it is destroying the only home we have and causing our species as a whole to devolve and degenerate. If anything it displays the ignorance of our suicidal tendency in techno-industrial progress. Like I said earlier, dominance doesn't necessarily mean intelligence. We haven't escaped anything. We are apart of the earth, not above or beyond it. Please check yourself before you wreck yourself, b/c techno-industrial modification is bad for your health, it come's real stealth.

Find me another specie on the planet as capable and we can talk about it. Sorry, we have the responsibility and the burden of the planet.

Capable of what? Why give us so much positive credit for the amount of genocide, inequality, and ecological destruction we've incurred? He who lives in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at others. Please actually watch that documentary on the myth of Human Superiority before spitting out humanist bullshit. Put us on a pedestal somewhere else. We are taking no responsibility for our planet at all. We in the civilized west only hold as many capabilities as military occupation and resource extraction allow us. It's up to you to find new alternative capabilities in non co-operation with this system, along with resistance against it.

Dominance absolutely means more intelligence.

NOT AT ALL. I'm more intelligent than my closest homie but he could give me a beat down at the drop of a dime. Intelligence is kind of frivolous in our objective world, it is the smoke and mirrors for the physical hand of the military to procure this techno-industrial progress that we perceive as our intellectual dominance.

 

[fairbanks]

These words, 'intelligence' and 'technology' have been deeply manipulated in favor of western dominance. These words are used to cover up and make the public ignorant to the destruction needed to facilitate this techno-industrial growth. The hidden hand of silicon valleys' intelligent technology is actually in the form of a fist in the military. We claim that all of our destructive progress is in the name of intelligence and technology and that we're moving towards utopia--but reality check--I just defined insanity. We can't keep doing the same thing over and over, destruction upon destruction, to allow for growth upon growth in hope this will eliminate that part about destruction. Remember where you came from and the natural abundance of earth, don't fall into the cybernetic techno-trippy-hippy trance. I know we're all on the internet so it's hard for you to take a second and look at yourself, but thankfully we are all psychedelic practitioners, so we do get that chance every now and then.

 

[fairbanks]

"...There is a notion gaining credence that the Free Market breaks down national barriers, and that Corporate Globalization's ultimate destination is a hippie paradise where the heart is the only passport and we all live happily together inside a John Lennon song. (" Imagine there's no country...") But this is a canard. What the Free Market undermines is not national sovereignty, but democracy. As the disparity between the rich and poor grows... Corporate Globalization needs an international confederation of loyal, corrupt, preferably authoritarian governments in poorer countries to push through unpopular reforms and quell the mutinies...not the free movement of people, not a respect for human rights, not international treaties on racial discrimination or chemical and nuclear weapons, or greenhouse gas emissions, climate change, or god forbid, justice.." Arundhati Roy

 

[MindRider]

My personal observation. But if you have proof that instead the sperm whale is leading the world please let me know.
Please post that scientific data where dolphin can solve math problems.

"Dominance absolutely means more intelligence"

Source?

This is just a naive statement to make, for obvious reasons.

Dominance might mean a different kind of intelligence, but not necessarily more intelligence.

...and you do know, that we have not escaped the food chain right?..cus that really does not make any sense. Are you a breatharian?

You can go look at the research done on cetacean intelligence if you want to..everything is there to conclude that they have a capacity for intelligence that matches our own. You can refute this all you want with more fallacy arguements but it does not really hold up against scientific data tht claims otherwise.

 

[MindRider]

Dude,

Stop talking to me like I'm an Ayn rand republican. I am no!!

I agree with you that corporation and greed and the fu*&&ng elite screwed it up for all of us. But the solution is not to burn every book and go back to the jungle, the solution is to have a critic mass of evolved people that THINK and move the rest of the mass in that direction, and to do that you do need technology, like for example this forum or the thousands of books that I now have available to me that I did not before. That ain't bad.

"...There is a notion gaining credence that the Free Market breaks down national barriers, and that Corporate Globalization's ultimate destination is a hippie paradise where the heart is the only passport and we all live happily together inside a John Lennon song. (" Imagine there's no country...") But this is a canard. What the Free Market undermines is not national sovereignty, but democracy. As the disparity between the rich and poor grows... Corporate Globalization needs an international confederation of loyal, corrupt, preferably authoritarian governments in poorer countries to push through unpopular reforms and quell the mutinies...not the free movement of people, not a respect for human rights, not international treaties on racial discrimination or chemical and nuclear weapons, or greenhouse gas emissions, climate change, or god forbid, justice.." Arundhati Roy