Anhydrous Acetone-- FASA, CASA Advice Needed

[Myco]

Hello friends. Hoping to use Fumaric saturated acetone for a DMT extraction (The FASA Method). Using anhydrous magnesium sulfate (baked epsom salts) to dry the hardware store acetone.

I would need to make both fumaric acid saturated acetone (FASA), and citric acid saturated acetone (CASA), as well as keeping some of the regular anhydrous acetone on hand.

So I would need a few jars to hold these different acetone mixes and acetone pulls (I need to shop for appropriate chemical resistant lids). But here's what I need help with:Should I remove the magnesium sulfate that is sitting on the bottom of the acetone container before I add fumaric or citric acid to it?

Iam asking because Iam picturing simply adding both the magnesium sulfate and the fumaric (or citric) acid to the original container the acetone comes in. This would save one from having to have multiple jars to do this with (saving space). I would need to decant/filter this acetone before use of course.

Any advice on this acetone mixing/handling would be appreciated. :d

 

[Kash]

I dont think it would really matter, but it would be good practice to first make the acetone anhydrous with anhydrous magnesium sulfate and filter out, then adding the acid and mix so you would actually know how much acid is dissolving in solution.

 

[endlessness]

CASA ? Why?

And yeah kash is right, it should work, AFAIK the fumaric acid will not react with the magnesium sulphate... But if you can, make them separate to see how much acid you actually need.

 

[Myco]

Thanks for the replies Kash and Endlessness. I'll follow your advice and mix in the fumaric acid after decanting/filtering the acetone from the magnesium sulphate.

The citric acid saturated acetone is used in a tek from Infundibulum in "The FASA Method" thread.

 

[Kryll]

*

 

[dooby]

CASA ? Why?

Because I don't have fumaric yet, am tired of acetic and not sure if CASW would work...

My goal would be to back-salt some toluene pulls then freebase in order to gain access to the full-spectrum experience without having to evaporate the toluene... It would be very convenient if this could be accomplished with CASW rather than CASA...

I am also not sure if it is mandatory for the acetone to be anhydrous when using citric acid or what the consequences would be if I use "wet" acetone...

Any info/input/insight that contributes to my learning curve will be greatly appreciated

PLUR

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Why shouldn't CASW work for back-salting toluene? If that's convenient, just do it! Wet acetone CASA would increase toluene contamination of your salt and interfere with crystalline precipitation.

So just wash with CASW, separate, evaporate water, re-basify citrates with sodium carbonate-water paste, dry carefully and extract freebase with dry acetone, evaporate acetone to collect freebase.

 

[arcologist]

'Wet' acetone will work just fine for FASA, the only drawback being that there will be more fumaric acid left behind on your precipitate. This results in 'sticky' fumarates that take forever to dry. This is easily fixed by washing the precipitate with clean acetone as soon as you decant away the fumaric acid-acetone. Once seems to be enough but you could do it twice just to be sure you remove all of the fumaric acid.

 

[dooby]

Why shouldn't CASW work for back-salting toluene? If that's convenient, just do it! Wet acetone CASA would increase toluene contamination of your salt and interfere with crystalline precipitation.

So just wash with CASW, separate, evaporate water, re-basify citrates with sodium carbonate-water paste, dry carefully and extract freebase with dry acetone, evaporate acetone to collect freebase.

Thank you, thank you very much

What ratio of CASW:toluene would you recommend? (I'll divide it into three separate washes)

I'm really curious to find out if any non-dmt alkaloids will be in my final product...

Not having to dry any acetone (yet?) is a relief, now I can simply look up the solubility of citric acid, take out my scales and measuring jug and experiment the night away

 

[dooby]

'Wet' acetone will work just fine for FASA, the only drawback being that there will be more fumaric acid left behind on your precipitate. This results in 'sticky' fumarates that take forever to dry. This is easily fixed by washing the precipitate with clean acetone as soon as you decant away the fumaric acid-acetone. Once seems to be enough but you could do it twice just to be sure you remove all of the fumaric acid.

Thanks, I'll remember this for future reference...

 

[downwardsfromzero]

What ratio of CASW:toluene would you recommend? (I'll divide it into three separate washes)

I've no idea but the maths to work it out isn't that complicated (i.e. it's all simple arithmetic...)

I'm really curious to find out if any non-dmt alkaloids will be in my final product...

There's a GC-MS study knocking around nearby. There may be traces of phenylethylamine and 2-Me-THBC, IIRC.

Not having to dry any acetone (yet?) is a relief, now I can simply look up the solubility of citric acid, take out my scales and measuring jug and experiment the night away

Pop your MgSO4 in the oven if you haven't already done so. Make sure the oven is reasonably clean. Line your dish with alu-foil, thin layer MgSO4, cover loosely with more foil, max heat for 2hrs. Allow to cool, add to acetone in suitable proportion in a suitable container.

MEANWHILE... fiddle around to your heart's content back-salting with CASW then leave to evaporate while you take a well-earned rest. Apparently a computer fan blowing away from the solution helps evaporation without blowing too much dust in. Rest the fan on a mesh (e.g., bun cooling rack) over the dish.

Thank you, thank you very much

You're welcome, just passing on what I've read around here...

 

[dooby]

Some observations...

Water can dissolve a lot of citric acid and it's a rather slow process even when constantly swirling the vessel...

I started with 75 ml of demineralised water...After saturation the volume of the solution was about 150 ml...

It appeared as if something precipitated immediately upon addition of the CASW to the toluene but after shaking and separation it is gone...

The citric acid is now less clear than before and has a slight yellow coloration...

The appearance of the toluene has not changed...

During shaking some bubbles were formed, they dissipated eventually, leaving some remnants stuck between the two layers, they look like the "remains of foam" (like bath foam after it's lost its foaminess)...

After the first 50 ml wash/salting I'll do some 25 ml washes until no more cloudiness is observed during shaking???