Atypical reaction to both mescaline and psilocin

[Syragote]

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[Tomtegubbe]

I seem to have an atypical reaction to both mescaline and psilocin. I've searched for accounts of experiences similar to mine, but could only find a couple of odd scraps that didn't include much detail. I'm hoping to get some more input from people with a similar reaction.

The dominant effect is a jarring sort of grogginess and disorientation. Even when the psychedelic effects are only at a threshold level, both substances cause this identical sort of inner discomfort. It feels absolutely wrong to have these substances in my system, like there's a very stubborn clash between them and my neurochemistry. This is unrelated to the content of the experience, and isn't caused by anxiety, a bad set or setting, nausea, pain, or any specific bodily discomfort. The unpleasantness just seems baked into the cake. It is stable and unbudging.

Does it feel like you are stuck at the threshold? I get it sometimes if there is something I worry about so that it's difficult to just let go.

I suggest you make your environment as relaxing and comfortable as possible and have some easy music at hand that can work as a vehicle for your attention. Tiny bit of weed can help (too much can trigger paranoia or increase fogginess). Alcohol can help to let go, but it dulls your mind so it's not very good option in the long run.

And welcome

 

[Syragote]

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[Tomtegubbe]

How much experience you have with these substances? It's possible that these jarring effects go away with more use as you get more comfortable with the headspace.

Not sure though, just thinking.

 

[Syragote]

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[BongQuixote]

I was thinking it maybe is something with tryptamines, but mescaline is an phenethylamine so that doesn't scan. I think the clue here is "the mushroom/cactus didn't want to be eaten". LSD is synthetic, so probably less likely to transmit plant/mushroom message like that.

I have tried many different mushroom strains, and the more potent ones usually require some "getting to know" before they work without physical side effects. I feel like you have to make friends with them and respect them as the lifeform they are, and then they treat you more gently and symbiotic when ingested.

 

[bismillah]

Odd.
Psychedelics do mess with your physiology so I suppose it's possible you're having a reaction. Just spitballing, but maybe try some natural remedies for discomfort. Ginger? Chamomile tea? I know your sensation isn't reserved to the abdomen, but just for example. I always brew ginger into my teas because I get a nasty bloaty feeling when I trip.

 

[Voidmatrix]

What other substances had you used up to 48 hours prior to the instances in question?

What's your diet like?

What time of day were your experiences in?

What kind of mushrooms and cactus were they? Did you cultivate each yourself or procure them from a third party?

Welcome to the forum

One love

 

[ShamanisticVibes]

What kind of mushrooms and cactus were they?


One love

You may have missed he said they were San Pedro cactus and P. Atlantis sclerotia, respectively.

And I don't think that diet would have caused this, unless you ate the exact same things before both experiences; and in the same amounts (ballpark).


Perhaps the ingestion of another psychoactive in the day or 3 previous could be the culprit, but I think the that Syragote would have mentioned anything of that nature.

I've taken each once in a moderate dose, and again in a smaller dose to confirm that it wasn't a fluke reaction.

One thing that comes to mind here. I think I understand exactly what you mean in your description, and I may have an answer that you might not like. Or maybe you will relish the idea. I experience this exact phenomena on both mushrooms, and LSD. And it breaks down to this for me: stuck at the threshold.... My friends and I when dosing will refer to "blasting through all the awkward stuff", where we will take a much larger dose than threshold in an attempt to not get stuck in the head/body space that you seem to be getting stuck in. Now, I would not recommend doing this, yourself, without a sitter. My friends and I have 100+ years experience between us when it comes to psychedelics. Perhaps try your next mush journey with harmalas?

That all being said, I find myself hesitating to press the green button. I really want to make sure to pound in the idea that for certain people with certain mental health issues should NOT be taking large doses of mind altering substances, so you should think hard about your mental health before you even consider doing this. Once you consider that, I want you to think long and hard about creating a safe and healthy environment for both you, and your sitter. That is, if you do choose to do something like this. I in no way encourage anyone to take more than they are comfortable with, or more than is considered generally safe. This is just what seems to be a problem for me sometimes, and how I remedy it for myself.


Many blessings, friend, I wish you the best on your journeys

 

[Wolfnippletip]

Groggy, disoriented and pretty much immobilized on the sofa for 6 or so hours is how my wife reacted to cactus, once on tea and the second time on a solid dose of full spectrum extracted mescaline. She was nauseated for the duration, even after purging. She describes very little in the way of CEV's while on mescaline, or on DMT (vaped E-leaf). I can't imagine not seeing an absolute circus behind my eyelids on either. She's not on any type of meds. She does however have a more typical experience on LSD.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

And I don't think that diet would have caused this

Some specific dietary habits will affect metabolism in specific ways. It's a bit complicated to explain right now.

Another possible factor is that the OP's genetic profile will affect both metabolism and neuroreceptor subtype distribution. It could be that LSD with its more promiscuous action gets round this variation, whereas mescaline and psilocin, being more targeted in their action, lead somehow to this more troublesome effect.

It could have been bunk material (leading to the 'halfway house' effect) with those two as natural materials are inherently variable. Did anyone else join you in those excursions at the time?

More information, as ever(?), would be helpful.


And welcome to the Nexus, Syragote!

 

[ShamanisticVibes]

And I don't think that diet would have caused this

Some specific dietary habits will affect metabolism in specific ways. It's a bit complicated to explain right now.

Ahh, I didn't stop to think about dietary habits. I was more leaning towards the idea that if you had ice cream once before hand that it may not, but I neglected the idea that one may have eaten ice cream several times that week may have had effects. Not that ice cream would lol, it was just a generic example. But in short, yes! If you habitually ingest something that may change your metabolism or any other mechanism involved in the process, that could have an effect. Thank you for correcting me, DFZ.

 

[Voidmatrix]

And I don't think that diet would have caused this

Some specific dietary habits will affect metabolism in specific ways. It's a bit complicated to explain right now.

Ahh, I didn't stop to think about dietary habits. I was more leaning towards the idea that if you had ice cream once before hand that it may not, but I neglected the idea that one may have eaten ice cream several times that week may have had effects. Not that ice cream would lol, it was just a generic example. But in short, yes! If you habitually ingest something that may change your metabolism or any other mechanism involved in the process, that could have an effect. Thank you for correcting me, DFZ.

Yeah, I was shooting for overall diet.

And thank you ShamanisticVibes for the correction. I was on break at work, but still trying to be helpful and missed the specifics of substances.

Hopefully with all of us peering into this mystery we can help Syragote solve it.

One love

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Groggy, disoriented and pretty much immobilized on the sofa for 6 or so hours is how my wife reacted to cactus, once on tea and the second time on a solid dose of full spectrum extracted mescaline. She was nauseated for the duration, even after purging. She describes very little in the way of CEV's while on mescaline, or on DMT (vaped E-leaf). I can't imagine not seeing an absolute circus behind my eyelids on either. She's not on any type of meds. She does however have a more typical experience on LSD.

So it seems like, for whatever reason, Wolfie's wife and Syragote are among the unlucky ones with cactus. Did your wife ever try mushrooms, WNT?

 

[Wolfnippletip]

Did your wife ever try mushrooms, WNT?

She tried shrooms once, and suffered no debilitating effects like she did with the cactus. She had a nice experience, but she also did 50 mics of 1P LSD with her 4 grs cubes, because I'd determined the shrooms had degraded by about 50%, having been stored in the freezer for about 4 years.

 

[Syragote]

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[ShamanisticVibes]

I did wonder if this might be the case, but...

1) I don't have this issue at all with LSD.

This could just be differences in our brain chemistry, but you should trust your gut with these compounds.

2) The same batches of San Pedro/Atlantis truffles were consumed in comparable doses by 5-6 acquaintances, all of whom reported fairly typical effects with no mention of the strange jarring sensation that I experienced.

This could break down to the differences between your brains. Are you diagnosed with any mental health problems, or otherwise issues with your brain or possibly even your digestive system that may have any effect on the way the compounds would affect your receptors?

3) The sensation was really unpleasant, and I was hesitant to try "blasting through" it because a higher dose might just lead to intolerable levels of the same sensation.

Again, I think you should definitely go with your gut here, it is always better to be safe than sorry.

Another thing I'll add is that, besides the jarring sensation that was central to the experience, the perceptual effects of psiloc(yb)in and mescaline were very, very different to that of LSD.

They are very different experiences in my perception as well compared to L. They have a very different spirit. And can sometimes be less predictable, imo, than L. How experienced are you with the 3 compounds?

{quote=Syragote] Despite feeling very intoxicated, there was mostly a complete lack of sensory enhancement and cognitive alterations (even a low dose of LSD causes a very distinct shift in cognition for me) and I was instead overcome by what might be described as an "alien perceptual mode" - everything was altered with a very distinct alien flavour, including visually, but it didn't feel psychedelic at all.

My thinking and sense of self was intact, music was unenhanced, and there was no sense of insight or anything else that I'd consider typically psychedelic. Everything was just meaninglessly bizarre.[/quote]


I understand what you are describing as far as your intoxications, and lacking the shift in cognition. Those have been a part of some of my journeys. Even the music being unenhanced, is relatively familiar. The alien perception has been a part of some of my trips as well. Was the "meaninglessly bizarre" feeling causing any existential pain, or was it a neutral feeling? Again, I have little experience with the SP, and with more research on the particular mushies...you had said sclerotia? Now were you eating truffles? Or the sclerotia, itself?

 

[Syragote]

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[ShamanisticVibes]

Yeah, it seems to me that some combination of body and brain chemistry being the proverbial "X Factor" here. Strange that you have an aversion to Cannabis as well. Makes me wonder if your receptors may have some sort of anomalies that make the reception of the molecules skewed in some way. I hope you are able to learn the things you set out to learn. Blessings, friend.

 

[igorcarajo]

I also had very unpleasant effects when I made a tea with 3 grams dried cubensis. Just disoriented, tired, and weird. My limited experience with cannabis was also not pleasant. Vaporized DMT was a very clean level 5 or whatever experience. No unpleasant effects. I mean, the experience itself was extremely inefable, but it was clean and tidy, so to speak. I was here, one second later I was tumbling around in some other state of consciousness, and 15 minutes later I was back. Maybe some of us, our neurochemistry plays well with some substances and not others? I haven’t tried mescaline or LSD.