BLAB - The Big Leisurely A/B

[psychosisdoses]

people are so quick to ridicule its so silly
before you knock it why dont you try it people
its not that difficult and if it didnt do something pretty amazing we surly wouldnt act like it 0_o

 

[Jorkest]

1.9 with a legit defat? No plant oils or inactives in your spice? That's so tough to believe... and are you using pedro's bark? Swim can never seem to pull more than 1.3% (weight calculated after re-xtaling the nn and fasa2freebasing the jungle)

Is D-Limo that awesome?

i have gotten over 9g of dmt fumarate from 360g of bark...dmt fumarate is about 76% dmt...so...9g of PURE dmt fumarate is...6.84g freebase...and i feel i can easily get another 500mg-1g from the extraction..bringing it up to 2%...an i DONT do any recrystallizations because i feel the stuff that you separate OUT of the extraction with a reX is the BEST part!!

jungle spice..or jimjam as i call it...is the best dmt i have ever smoked...so why would i want to purify it into purish dmt crystals that give me a not as nice experience...makes no sense..

 

[Heretic]

psychosis: I wasn't ridiculing but moreso expressing my jaw drop in awe at those numbers.

jorkest: I'm not talking about throwing away the jungle... that's my favorite part! I was just wondering if you calculated inactives when you gave that number. I may be incorrect but I don't think you lose anything valuable when washing your fumarates multiple times with tone/iso except for weight.

 

[amor_fati]

69ron's world? Lime is the common name of Ca(OH)2, period (limestone, pickling lime, agricultural lime). A lime is a fruit. And lime juice is the juice of a lime. Where's the confusion in that? Maybe it's more confusing to most people than it seems, but I don't think anyone's going to be confused by the name of this tek.

SWIM does hold some degree of importance in the name used, but honestly couldn't even begin to think of a better one. It carries some characteristics of an A/B and some of an STB, so it's a hybrid in that sense; but overall, it involves acidification followed by basification, so it can be considered an A/B. But at the same time, it's quite likely that very little extraction is necessarily going on in the acid phase (due to lack of heat or agitation), so the material could be considered to be "acid treated" prior to performing an STB.

SWIM does feel that it is possible that having acid-soaked bark can make it more susceptible to the structural breakdown brought on by introducing it to basic conditions, however.

SWIM just crossed over 1.5% with his STB using limonene, by the way, but he's still waiting for the final numbers; they're likely much larger than SWIM's anticipating, so 1.9% doesn't seem so unrealistic to SWIM. He could probably get more, but he's getting a little tired of separating limonene from soupy lye water, honestly. But hey, it definitely extracts well, at least. Oh yeah, and with his last yield, he actually tried FASIPA, but no dice. SWIM's not sure why, as it did cloud up nicely and had only the tiniest layer of moisture on the bottom; perhaps it was because he didn't cap the salting containers. SWIM recovered the yield simply by adding water, separating, and evaporating. The total material recovered was 3.712g. Now he's in the final stretch to see if his nontoxic limtek can sufficiently contend with these lye/limonene techniques.

 

[antichode]

It doesn't work and basically it's not really worth a shot. FASA does not dissolve in limo just as FASI does. FASA in limo forms a layer at the botton and not much else is really happening. This is why the FASI is a revolution; it is the equivalent of FASA in xylene/toluene!

Ok cool, so would there be any benefit to using this tek and pulling with vinegar? Given that you can't saturate the limo in the same way?

 

[amor_fati]

It doesn't work and basically it's not really worth a shot. FASA does not dissolve in limo just as FASI does. FASA in limo forms a layer at the botton and not much else is really happening. This is why the FASI is a revolution; it is the equivalent of FASA in xylene/toluene!

Ok cool, so would there be any benefit to using this tek and pulling with vinegar? Given that you can't saturate the limo in the same way?

Vinegar pulls were used on some of the earliest limonene teks but were largely replaced by FASW, since DMT acetate doesn't crystallize. It doesn't work anywhere near the same as FASIPA in limonene or FASA in xylene or toluene though, as vinegar is mostly water and will form an aqueous layer. Glacial acetic acid doesn't fair much better in limonene either.

 

[kemist]

well i have never taken a chemisty class in my life..so i admit i know nothing of NORMAL chemistry rules..all i know is how to extract dmt(why we are here right)...but getting all worked up over a name...come on now... if you got a good tek yourself name it like you want. I'm keeping this.

i did just look up what an A/B was...and turns out..it STILL is an A/B...I THINK

LMAO :lol: :lol: :lol:
That`s fair enough !

There are some good ideas in your tek, which ILPT definitelly would utilize.
Thanx for your hard work boss !

 

[Jorkest]

another reason its an A/B is( I THINK ) because..what do you do to the d-limo after you pull the freebase spice??? you add an acid that purifies it by separating the dmt from the d-limo...each step of this technique is purifying and separating...with acids and bases...from the description on wikipedia...that is exactly what it is...an a/b

 

[amor_fati]

another reason its an A/B is because..what do you do to the d-limo after you pull the freebase spice??? you add an acid that purifies it by separating the dmt from the d-limo...each step of this technique is purifying and separating...with acids and bases...from the description on wikipedia...that is exactly what it is...an a/b

Very true, but for the purposes of the Nexus, perhaps it should be understood in terms of the more direct extraction process, with the salting as a separate process altogether (especially since there are several options at this point). The name works well enough, but SWIM does hope that a more specific, short and descriptive categorization crops up; especially considering that most Nexians who perform A/B in the ways it's come to be understood within the community would likely find discrepancy with it. Though perhaps the whole "leisurely" part remedies this. My whole concern is how to document this in a fitting manner and how to speak of it in general terms, as I'm back to the grind on the wiki.

 

[Jorkest]

another reason its an A/B is because..what do you do to the d-limo after you pull the freebase spice??? you add an acid that purifies it by separating the dmt from the d-limo...each step of this technique is purifying and separating...with acids and bases...from the description on wikipedia...that is exactly what it is...an a/b

Very true, but for the purposes of the Nexus, perhaps it should be understood in terms of the more direct extraction process, with the salting as a separate process altogether (especially since there are several options at this point). The name works well enough, but SWIM does hope that a more specific, short and descriptive categorization crops up; especially considering that most Nexians who perform A/B in the ways it's come to be understood within the community would likely find discrepancy with it. Though perhaps the whole "leisurely" part remedies this. My whole concern is how to document this in a fitting manner and how to speak of it in general terms, as I'm back to the grind on the wiki.

ok so now instead of talking about it in chemistry terms..i have to label it the way the community understands it better?? you guys keep flip flopping back and forth...i was criticized with being told i didnt understand chemical terms..so i looked up what an a/b was...and based on THAT...i explained why its still an a/b...now you are saying that instead of going by what is the standard..i need to go by what the community usually speaks of it as...where will this end?!?

i just dont understand why this is such a HUGE deal...its an A/B based on what i read...an STB is STRAIGHT to base...there are NO acids involved of any kind...you use a solvent that can pull the freebase dmt and then deposit it without any purifications if you dont want...the ONLY reason you guys are saying its NOT an a/b is because i dont use heat..i use a strong base..and i dont filter out the root bark....those are the ONLY reasons...

 

[amor_fati]

SWIM has a fondness for such methods--as has been stated--but never knew what to call them. For the purposes of community documentation and as an attempt to see from all sides and moderate to a degree, it would perhaps be beneficial to coin a term. If we simply went by what the scientific community deems, any tek utilizing fumaric acid would be A/B, and that would be incredibly confusing. Let's not start politicizing teks, here, it's gone on far too often lately and is completely absurd. What's important is that the Nexus' legacy and developments remain comprehensible to those not necessarily here to witness at the moment.

Again, I have no serious problem with the name but can understand where some may find discrepancy. Just feel proud that the community recognizes your tek as significant enough to voice such concerns and take on some degree of collective ownership over it. You don't have to do anything at all, really, so if it really bugs you, just don't worry about it.

 

[Heretic]

ok i failed idk what you would call this besides BLAB
it reminds me of the thirdeye tek but with a level up and class change.

 

[psychosisdoses]

STBA/B (straight2base, acid, base)
B/A/B (base, acid, base)
HFDMT (hella fatty dmt)

FAIL

 

[Heretic]

swim saw some of that d limo full spectrum blend at the last festival he was at. To be honest he'd love to try some it seems like a more communal group oriented way to smoke dmt than blasting off the planet with pure spice.

swim has smoked pure red, pure white, and mostly yellow, and various combos of each... but has never smoked limo pulled spice. Limo pulls what alks? Anyways let me get this straight... you are really claiming almost 2% yields using d limo... this is the amount of product after freebasing your fasi?

swim just doesn't see how that is possible unless your bark is fucking awesome dope shit harvested by poor families in brazil... but so is swims so what the fuck. Swim is currently pulling 1-1.35% or so using acid/base, dual solvent defat + naptha pulls followed by xylene pulls with fasa added. Last yield was 8 grams white, 2~ grams yellow, and 3.5 grams red from a kilo. Swim is proud of this spice and it's purity as well as yield... but like swim said, where the heck do your other 6 grams come from?

Inside swims bark still??? Swim did 4x acid boils at 2+ hours each on his powdered bark so he doubts that... swim's defat? No that makes no sense, but the defat is saved anyways so swim can examine the contents. Inside swim's xylene not exiting when fasa is added? Possibly... but this xylene was pulled with fasw after fasa and only a minor amount was recovered (gram range)... swim is still short 5 grams.

Does Limo pull alks that Xylene doesn't? Swim is pulling his totally exhausted jug with ethyl ether to see if this is the case.

If swim can't find more psychoactive alks he is just going to assume one of three things:

1. He isn't extracting all the dmt from his bark during the acidification stage
2. There is dmt so deep in the jug xylene just lacks the strength to pull it out while d limo and others fare better OR there is another alkaloid that xylene doesn't grab but dlimo does (swim's ether pull contains actives! but not much -.-)
3. the 2% Yield was claimed with either (a) fumarate or (b) your spice is around 15-20% by weight fats and oils.

swim can't think of any other explanation unless you are using super bark.
This post was not from an aggressive standpoint, but rather from an informational one, and I would love to get some feedback jorkest.

 

[amor_fati]

1. He isn't extracting all the dmt from his bark during the acidification stage

Possibly. It is one the of the most limiting steps in an A/B. Though if adequately pulverizing the bark, using generous heat, and at least three good brews, SWIM would imagine a complete extraction. However the margin of error is why SWIM never relied on standard A/B.

2. There is dmt so deep in the jug xylene just lacks the strength to pull it out while d limo and others fare better OR there is another alkaloid that xylene doesn't grab but dlimo does (swim's ether pull contains actives! but not much -.-)

Another possibility, but SWIM couldn't say for sure. However, it is reported that FASA collected fumarate from either xylene or toluene (SWIM can't remember if it's one or both of these) is primarily pure DMT, with only traces of jungle.

3. the 2% Yield was claimed with either (a) fumarate or (b) your spice is around 15-20% by weight fats and oils.

This really isn't likely, considering the manner of crystallization, SWIM always found this to be an overstated issue, barring the evaporation of xylene or toluene or possibly over-heated naphtha (yuck!). With the use of fumaric acid, SWIM thinks this is merely an issue of the past.


While it could be a difference in the source or quality of MHRB or even of solvent differences, SWIM feels it's more likely an issue of methods and techniques, as 2% yields with other solvents are not necessarily unheard of (though SWIM honestly couldn't source any examples offhand). If more reports like this start cropping up with d-limo, then SWIM would say it's likely a characteristic of the solvent.

 

[CosmicLion]

Here is an extraction from some VERY OLD bark that had been sitting exposed to air for several years. SWIM has been working with the bark for a while and has had many issues along the way.

SWIM was ready to be done with this batch and tossed the last 1lb in an extraction Jorkest style. This batch of bark hasn't faired well with STB so a regular A/B was carried out.

The yield was very low, this was expected as this batch of bark has been yielding very low lately.

Procedure:
1. MHRB was powderized in coffee grinder
2. MHRB was mixed with near-boiling vinegar water on the crock pot. Let cook on high for 3 hours.
3. Repeated step 2, doing a total of three 3-hour acid pulls.
4. The results were reduced down to 1200ml and put in a very tall mason jar to decant in the fridge overnight.
5. The solution was filtered through cotton then enough lye was added to complete reaction, about 250g
6. 200ml of Limonene was added
7. The mason jar was attached to a blender and the the blender stirred the Limonene in for 30 minutes.
8. Step 7 was repeated 2 more times drawing a total of 3 Limonene pulls, 200ml each.
9. 200ml Fumaric Acid Saturated IPA (FASI) was added to the 600ml Limonene
Note: Color changed then stabilized. Several hours later adding more FASI produced no change.
10. Collected DMT Fumarate crystals using the Homemade Pressure Pump and dried in food dehydrator!

Total Yield: 3.0g DMT Fumarate

DMT Fumarate is 76% DMT so that means

Actual Yield: 2.3g DMT Freebase! .5% Yield!

 

[Jorkest]

beautiful fumarates!! i also let the d-limo and FASI sit for a couple of days...and it precipitates some more..so dont wash you d-limo with water right away...there are still alkies in there that might crash out over time

and from this bark i usually get around 1.5% and give up..but because its so damn easy to do..i just let the d-limo sit in there for up to a week...shaking it whenever i think of it...im gonna do another pull and see if i can get anymore out...this is has been my highest yielding extraction i have done...a good way to get the majority of the d-limo off the crystals is to put the dmt fumarate in a TINY bit of water...just enough to absorb it all....and then evaporate it...FASW style...this only takes a few hours(2ish) but as the water evaporates the d-limo seems to evaporate too

so far though i have gotten THREE different colors of dmt fumarate..from this one extraction...a light tan/yellow powder...a pink powder(this was recrystallized by putting it in boiling IPA until all fumarates were absorbed then stuck in the fridge for two days)...also an orangish powder..i also grind mine down into a powder with a mortar...i love dense spice!

so far ive tested the yellowish tan stuff...ate 48mg fumarate for an overwhelming experience...completely overwhelming..and this experience lasted about 15 hours!!!! a peak of about 2-3 hours...much purging...got something weird up too...and then continued to experience effects until i went to sleep about 11 hours after dosing...then woke up 4 hours later to STILL having visuals...i was quite shocked..this was taken in a cap with 100mg harmine and 30mg harmaline..and probably smoked some mapacho somewhere in there..this stuff is probably some of the most potent and pure fumarates ive eaten..

 

[Madcap]

Alright. I'm in. doing a half batch because a friend who I turned on to spice gave me 200g of bark fresh from pedro. I used a 1/2 gallon milk jug and its sitting under the sink for 3 days. I will post my yields when complete.

 

[psychosisdoses]

Alright. I'm in. doing a half batch because a friend who I turned on to spice gave me 200g of bark fresh from pedro. I used a 1/2 gallon milk jug and its sitting under the sink for 3 days. I will post my yields when complete.

wonderful!
youll be so pleased..

 

[transitory]

Heretic wrote:

Anyways let me get this straight... you are really claiming almost 2% yields using d limo... this is the amount of product after freebasing your fasi?

On the subject of D-Limonene...

[EDIT: Inaccurate yeild figures follow- please see below ]
I pulled a total of 3% following Jorkest's original D-Limonene FASW Tek. This was over a period of two months from a continuously heated base solution (brew heat pad & wrapped in a towel) but otherwise following the tek TO THE LETTER (quantities adjusted for a kilo MHRB).

The 3% figure is arrived at following 2x water recrystallisation & that's already allowing for 76% freebase from the fumerate. Total full-alk fumerate yield was approx 40g from a kilo.

I had to filter the D-Limo many many times per pull during the second month. Pulled loads of thick brown shit.

I am satisfied that I exhausted the bark (Pedro)

:d

I have plenty of goodness now but just cant wait to try this new approach. Evaporating the jimjam fumerate saturated water was a bit of a pain.

Strangely, the vaporised product tastes a little like citrus herbal shampoo- but I mean that in a very nice way


[Edit 30th Dec]: I became increasingly suspicious of this yield an so attempted a further water recrystallisation with the following results-

29.96g Full Spectrum DMT Fumerate = 3% fumerate yield
29.96g x 76% = 22.77g Full Spectrum DMT Freebase = 2.3% theoretical freebase yield

given a solubility of 0.63g fumeric acid per the 100ml H2O I used to recrystalise it follows that I cannot have more than half a gram of excess acid in that yeild. Of course with Jorkest's BLAB tek this all becomes academic (no fumeric acid contam possible :d ) but I just wanted to correct my figures in respect of the pulling power of d-limonene.