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BLAB - The Big Leisurely A/B
- Thread starter Jorkest
- Start date
Did anybody ever tried FASA to know if it works? If it does, then yeah I guess multiple water washes would help getting rid of it (and leaving open for a while so that it evaporates, as its more volatile than limo). But I had never read anything about people using FASA with limonene
endlessness said:
If I remember rightly it doesn't work, which is why it was necassary to go FASW/FASI instead from back in the day when everyone on the nexus was FASA crazy.
Either cold IPA/acetone wash (which will take away limonene but not dissolve fumarates), or recrystallize them by (safely) heating your IPA/acetone to redissolve your fumarates and then leave it in the freezer for many hours to precipitate. Just make sure the IPA or acetone are dry, because water content in them will make you lose your yield. Dont throw anything away before achieving final yield because then you can always retrieve back if something doesnt go as expected.
shiznackazane
Consider The Octopus
SWIM attempted this tek a couple of weeks ago with decent results. Low yield, but SWIM believes this is due to bark quality since he's performed two different extractions on the same batch of bark with similar results.
When SWIM freebased his product, he believes that he may have accidentally not fully dissolved the fumarate before adding the sodium carbonate solution. As a result, he ended up with two different colored products. One is a light tan shiny fluff which SWIM believes is pure DMT freebase. The other is dark brown (though shiny with crystals), very similar to his fumarate but still active when smoked. Both products melt easily when copper mesh is heated and the DMT added.
How would SWIM go about verifying that the dark brown product is pure? Would it be possible to do a cold IPA pull of the freebase, or simply use water to dissolve the fumarate and mix again with a sodium carbonate solution?
Any help is appreciated. :surprised
When SWIM freebased his product, he believes that he may have accidentally not fully dissolved the fumarate before adding the sodium carbonate solution. As a result, he ended up with two different colored products. One is a light tan shiny fluff which SWIM believes is pure DMT freebase. The other is dark brown (though shiny with crystals), very similar to his fumarate but still active when smoked. Both products melt easily when copper mesh is heated and the DMT added.
How would SWIM go about verifying that the dark brown product is pure? Would it be possible to do a cold IPA pull of the freebase, or simply use water to dissolve the fumarate and mix again with a sodium carbonate solution?
Any help is appreciated. :surprised
Opiyum
Rising Star
SWIY could try re-xing the dark brown freebase in a small amount of hot naptha. The least amount possible to dissolve it all, then, if there are a lot of impurities, there should be an oily layer on the bottom. If so decant off the hot/warm naptha and re-X. Room temp, fridge and freezer.
That should work though there may be easier ways to do it.
That should work though there may be easier ways to do it.
TRyptamine
Rising Star
Look at swims beautifull crystalls
he used blabs tech and these are the first three pulls yield
the last two pulls are on the way
he used a plate like in the picture instead of a can to scrape and collect easily
he used an injector to put FASI very slow with breaks like 10-15 minutes
and also he used a headlight to see the clouds 100%
and he wants to thank the founder of this tech '' jorkest'' and all magic people helping each other in this platform
he used blabs tech and these are the first three pulls yield
the last two pulls are on the way
he used a plate like in the picture instead of a can to scrape and collect easily
he used an injector to put FASI very slow with breaks like 10-15 minutes
and also he used a headlight to see the clouds 100%
and he wants to thank the founder of this tech '' jorkest'' and all magic people helping each other in this platform
Attention All Shipping
Rising Star
Quite pleased with results on this tek. So far I'm only at the fumarate stage & have got 8.4g of very white/slightly yellow fumarate. I've also got another jar with an unmeasured slightly more yellow load of fumarates too.
Unfortunately though some impurities sneaked in somewhere as I've got some orangey brown patches in both jars. Here's one lot I've scraped out.
I've got 2 options for the browny stuff:
1) wash with IPA or Acetone (which is best?) remove remaining IPA/Acetone & dry hopefully cleaner fumarate.
2) convert to freebase seperately and then recrystallise in heptane.
I'm leaning towards 2 as it seems easiesty & least likely to loose any yields - I'm aiming for freebase at the endpoint anyway. Anyone have any other options or suggestions?
Unfortunately though some impurities sneaked in somewhere as I've got some orangey brown patches in both jars. Here's one lot I've scraped out.
I've got 2 options for the browny stuff:
1) wash with IPA or Acetone (which is best?) remove remaining IPA/Acetone & dry hopefully cleaner fumarate.
2) convert to freebase seperately and then recrystallise in heptane.
I'm leaning towards 2 as it seems easiesty & least likely to loose any yields - I'm aiming for freebase at the endpoint anyway. Anyone have any other options or suggestions?
Attention All Shipping
Rising Star
Hadn't considered that. Is there another way to purify after freebasing which will retain the other alkaloids?
xibalbaNOW
The Giddy Aunt
hi all
this guy i know has been closely studying this tek over the past few weeks and is due to give it a try. he was pleased to find the trickier ingredients on eBay (IPA, d-lim, fumaric acid) and grabbed the rest from Wilkinsons (a true theatre of dreams here in the UK if you're into your domestic projects with uncommon materials required).
this same guy has also been paying attention to Q21Q21's A/B tek and finds the use of food safe ingredients more appealing - specifically the use of calcium hydroxide instead of lye. now he's asking me if it'll work to use bits of both teks simultaneously. specifically he's looking at cutting down timescales in the following step: instead of waiting on BLAB's step 1 (acidification) for 3 days, go with Q21Q21's similar step of making a "clump" acid/bark mix, add near boiling water and stir over 40mins. he'll then continue with the BLAB tek of basification, non polar solvent wash, salting, crystallisation and finally freebase conversion (as required).
can i tell him this will work?
sorry if this is a lame question but this guy really does follow these great teks to the letter and has learned everything there is to know about DMT home chemistry from you wonderful people. in fact he told me to say he loves you all very much and thanks for any advice you can give here.
x
this guy i know has been closely studying this tek over the past few weeks and is due to give it a try. he was pleased to find the trickier ingredients on eBay (IPA, d-lim, fumaric acid) and grabbed the rest from Wilkinsons (a true theatre of dreams here in the UK if you're into your domestic projects with uncommon materials required).
this same guy has also been paying attention to Q21Q21's A/B tek and finds the use of food safe ingredients more appealing - specifically the use of calcium hydroxide instead of lye. now he's asking me if it'll work to use bits of both teks simultaneously. specifically he's looking at cutting down timescales in the following step: instead of waiting on BLAB's step 1 (acidification) for 3 days, go with Q21Q21's similar step of making a "clump" acid/bark mix, add near boiling water and stir over 40mins. he'll then continue with the BLAB tek of basification, non polar solvent wash, salting, crystallisation and finally freebase conversion (as required).
can i tell him this will work?
sorry if this is a lame question but this guy really does follow these great teks to the letter and has learned everything there is to know about DMT home chemistry from you wonderful people. in fact he told me to say he loves you all very much and thanks for any advice you can give here.
x
But you want to use lye, then?
If you use CaOH, you need the 'dry' tek like q21, if you use lye then yes you can do it quick without waiting for long acid soak in BLAB.
AFAIK nobody has yet made a side-by-side test regarding doing the long soak or not. My hypothesis is that for powdered bark, it will make little to no difference. I did already do an STB (without pre-acid soak) and continued like BLAB and it worked perfect and had great yields, but didnt do with soak at the same time to see if it would have been even better.
In any case you should be fine.
By the way, there's no need to wash the solvent if you're anyways gonna salt it out later, as any small amounts of basic liquid will be immediately neutralized.
If you use CaOH, you need the 'dry' tek like q21, if you use lye then yes you can do it quick without waiting for long acid soak in BLAB.
AFAIK nobody has yet made a side-by-side test regarding doing the long soak or not. My hypothesis is that for powdered bark, it will make little to no difference. I did already do an STB (without pre-acid soak) and continued like BLAB and it worked perfect and had great yields, but didnt do with soak at the same time to see if it would have been even better.
In any case you should be fine.
By the way, there's no need to wash the solvent if you're anyways gonna salt it out later, as any small amounts of basic liquid will be immediately neutralized.
xibalbaNOW
The Giddy Aunt
Thanks for the speedy reply endlessness. But now you've confused him with those suggestions!
The preference is to use calcium hydroxide instead of lye - in the spirit of keeping things non-toxic and as 'clean' as possible. And yes, this would be a dry process of adding CaOH to the bark/vinegar/water mix prepared earlier. Are you suggesting that the acid pre-soak may not be required when using lye? What is the purpose of this soak anyway? Is it releasing the DMT as a salt from the bark product? Whichever way i'd like to stick with CaOH for reasons already given. I trust this is ok whilst still following the rest of the BLAB tek.
For the record, powdered MHRB is being used here.
And re: the solvent wash, here's how the guy planned to do it: add d-lim in measured pulls to the CaOH/bark/vinegar/water mix without shaking to avoid emulsification, then leave for 2hrs before pulling. Next step would be salting with FASI.
Are you saying the d-lim step isnt required if im going to salt with FASI anyway? If not, how do i get the juice outta there?!
The preference is to use calcium hydroxide instead of lye - in the spirit of keeping things non-toxic and as 'clean' as possible. And yes, this would be a dry process of adding CaOH to the bark/vinegar/water mix prepared earlier. Are you suggesting that the acid pre-soak may not be required when using lye? What is the purpose of this soak anyway? Is it releasing the DMT as a salt from the bark product? Whichever way i'd like to stick with CaOH for reasons already given. I trust this is ok whilst still following the rest of the BLAB tek.
For the record, powdered MHRB is being used here.
And re: the solvent wash, here's how the guy planned to do it: add d-lim in measured pulls to the CaOH/bark/vinegar/water mix without shaking to avoid emulsification, then leave for 2hrs before pulling. Next step would be salting with FASI.
Are you saying the d-lim step isnt required if im going to salt with FASI anyway? If not, how do i get the juice outta there?!
Yeah the purpouse of the acid soak is to make a preliminary breakdown of the plant material to further release dmt. With lye/powdered bark/dilute solution (like BLAB) I suppose its not really necessary, but I dont know about dry tek like amor fati/q21.
When you say you wont shake, what kind of container will this all be done in? If its done like amor fati/q21, the whole thing is like a thick material so you anyways cant mix it by shaking, you have to stir or similar. With BLAB its more dilute, its a liquid, so you could shake (But not recommended), but anyways for that kind of solution you will need lye. So Im not sure if youre confusing this or if im not understanding you. Do you understand that its not just about the beginning but if youre using CaOH you cant add much water at all the whole way through?
Regarding solvent wash, this was just misunderstanding because of your choice of words. When in the nexus people talk about 'solvent wash', what they are talking about is after having pulled the solvent away from the basified mix, making a dilute sodium carbonate solution and mixing (washing) with the solvent to remove possible traces of lye and other polar impurities. So what you meant by 'solvent wash' is what is normally just called as 'pulling'. And yeah pulling is definitely necessary
When you say you wont shake, what kind of container will this all be done in? If its done like amor fati/q21, the whole thing is like a thick material so you anyways cant mix it by shaking, you have to stir or similar. With BLAB its more dilute, its a liquid, so you could shake (But not recommended), but anyways for that kind of solution you will need lye. So Im not sure if youre confusing this or if im not understanding you. Do you understand that its not just about the beginning but if youre using CaOH you cant add much water at all the whole way through?
Regarding solvent wash, this was just misunderstanding because of your choice of words. When in the nexus people talk about 'solvent wash', what they are talking about is after having pulled the solvent away from the basified mix, making a dilute sodium carbonate solution and mixing (washing) with the solvent to remove possible traces of lye and other polar impurities. So what you meant by 'solvent wash' is what is normally just called as 'pulling'. And yeah pulling is definitely necessary
xibalbaNOW
The Giddy Aunt
In the interests of clarifying exactly my process i'll now post the steps i've written. This is essentially a hybrid of the BLAB and CaOH dry teks - the motivation here based on having a food safe method to reach the best quality DMT fumarate. I'm leaning towards BLAB since that appears to have brought a good level of success across this forum, which is always encouraging.
Measurements here are based on 1kg MHRB. Should the collective agreement be that this hybrid tek is far too renegade without testing i will of course sample with smaller quantities first.
So here goes...
STEP 1 - acidification
In a water bath add acetic acid (vinegar - allow 200ml per 100g MHRB) to MHRB and stir to thick consistency. Mixture should be wet, red and clumpy - wet enough to flow when tipping the container. Stir several times over 60mins. Longer is fine.
STEP 2 - basification
In a water bath add calcium hydroxide (lime, and food-safe - allow 3g per 4g MHRB) to large container - im going with a metal bucket. Stir well and slow. Keep moist - may require a splash of near boiling water if its too dry. Ideal consistency will allow a hole or well to be made in the middle. We're looking for a grey colour. Keep warm over water bath for 2-5hrs. May form a dark brown crust on the top - this is fine. When no crust forms but mixture stays a dark colour, all the DMT has been released.
STEP 3 - non-polar solvent pull
Add 200ml d-limonene to the container and mix well. Do not shake - be gentle to avoid emulsification. Leave for 2 hours (mix regularly throughout - we're looking for an off yellow colour - this is complete when it doesnt look to be getting any darker), then pull d-limonene off the top and move to a large glass jar.
Repeat process with another 200ml d-limonene. Wait 2 hours before another pull.
Repeat process three more times over 3 days, mixing as often as possible.
STEP 4 - salting
Add 10g fumaric acid to small jar then fill up with IPA. Mix well to saturate IPA (creating fumaric acid saturated IPA (FASI). Excess fumaric acid may settle to the bottom - this is fine. Now slowly add FASI to large glass jar B - 10ml every 5mins until no more cloud forming in large glass jar B - this will crash out DMT fumarate from the d-limonene. Allow to sit for 24 hours after the last of the FASI has been added. Add another 1ml FASI to make sure all DMT has precipitated out. DMT fumarate crystals will form in or on the jar.
STEP 5
Pour off the d-limonene and separate from the crystals (may require filtering through coffee paper). Turn jar upside down and put on a paper towel to absorb any further impurities. Allow crystals to dry - fine to use dry heat and/or fan to speed this up. Product will smell mildly of oranges.
-ENDS-
Now as a new venture and a potentially challenging one I cant claim to be 100% confident in this hybrid tek. All and any comments, questions, amendments and/or additions will be gratefully received. In short, does the collective wisdom of this fine forum think this method will work?
x
Measurements here are based on 1kg MHRB. Should the collective agreement be that this hybrid tek is far too renegade without testing i will of course sample with smaller quantities first.
So here goes...
STEP 1 - acidification
In a water bath add acetic acid (vinegar - allow 200ml per 100g MHRB) to MHRB and stir to thick consistency. Mixture should be wet, red and clumpy - wet enough to flow when tipping the container. Stir several times over 60mins. Longer is fine.
STEP 2 - basification
In a water bath add calcium hydroxide (lime, and food-safe - allow 3g per 4g MHRB) to large container - im going with a metal bucket. Stir well and slow. Keep moist - may require a splash of near boiling water if its too dry. Ideal consistency will allow a hole or well to be made in the middle. We're looking for a grey colour. Keep warm over water bath for 2-5hrs. May form a dark brown crust on the top - this is fine. When no crust forms but mixture stays a dark colour, all the DMT has been released.
STEP 3 - non-polar solvent pull
Add 200ml d-limonene to the container and mix well. Do not shake - be gentle to avoid emulsification. Leave for 2 hours (mix regularly throughout - we're looking for an off yellow colour - this is complete when it doesnt look to be getting any darker), then pull d-limonene off the top and move to a large glass jar.
Repeat process with another 200ml d-limonene. Wait 2 hours before another pull.
Repeat process three more times over 3 days, mixing as often as possible.
STEP 4 - salting
Add 10g fumaric acid to small jar then fill up with IPA. Mix well to saturate IPA (creating fumaric acid saturated IPA (FASI). Excess fumaric acid may settle to the bottom - this is fine. Now slowly add FASI to large glass jar B - 10ml every 5mins until no more cloud forming in large glass jar B - this will crash out DMT fumarate from the d-limonene. Allow to sit for 24 hours after the last of the FASI has been added. Add another 1ml FASI to make sure all DMT has precipitated out. DMT fumarate crystals will form in or on the jar.
STEP 5
Pour off the d-limonene and separate from the crystals (may require filtering through coffee paper). Turn jar upside down and put on a paper towel to absorb any further impurities. Allow crystals to dry - fine to use dry heat and/or fan to speed this up. Product will smell mildly of oranges.
-ENDS-
Now as a new venture and a potentially challenging one I cant claim to be 100% confident in this hybrid tek. All and any comments, questions, amendments and/or additions will be gratefully received. In short, does the collective wisdom of this fine forum think this method will work?
x
xibalbaNOW
The Giddy Aunt
Oh, and just in case you're interested, i'll also be trialling the "10 min fumarate to freebase tek, as follows:
STEP 6 - convert fumarate to freebase
Dissolve 30g sodium carbonate in water (100ml max), or until no more will dissolve - then decant away from undissolved sodium carbonate. Completely dissolve 1g DMT fumarate in 50ml near-boiling water. Combine sodium carbonate solution with DMT fumerate solution in a jar with a lid and shake vigorously for 30secs. Then add 75ml room temperature water and shake again for 30secs. Put jar in the freezer. Within 5mins a golden layer will begin forming on the top of the solution - this is freebase DMT. Remove with tweezers. As this cools it will solidify and can be dried out before smoking. You can add further cold water to the jar to release any further DMT.
Again, I would appreciate any comments on this method too.
STEP 6 - convert fumarate to freebase
Dissolve 30g sodium carbonate in water (100ml max), or until no more will dissolve - then decant away from undissolved sodium carbonate. Completely dissolve 1g DMT fumarate in 50ml near-boiling water. Combine sodium carbonate solution with DMT fumerate solution in a jar with a lid and shake vigorously for 30secs. Then add 75ml room temperature water and shake again for 30secs. Put jar in the freezer. Within 5mins a golden layer will begin forming on the top of the solution - this is freebase DMT. Remove with tweezers. As this cools it will solidify and can be dried out before smoking. You can add further cold water to the jar to release any further DMT.
Again, I would appreciate any comments on this method too.
Attention All Shipping
Rising Star
Any thoughts on my earlier question?