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Bufotenine Extraction
- Thread starter acolon_5
- Start date
69ron
Rising Star
Yes, DCM would work in step 10.
That's an old tech. The results will contain bufotenine plus some of the toxic alkaloids in the seeds. The more toxins it contains, the stickier it will be because the toxins are sticky. How much are present depends on the quality of seeds. Some contain almost no toxins at all and those will produce nearly pure bufotenine. But others contain tons of toxins and so the results will be sticky and nauseating. The “toxins” aren’t poisonous, just unpleasant. They cause lots of nausea. A xylene boil or d-limonene boil as discussed in other threads will remove the toxic alkaloids and should be done if the resulting vapor causes lots nausea when inhaled.
That's an old tech. The results will contain bufotenine plus some of the toxic alkaloids in the seeds. The more toxins it contains, the stickier it will be because the toxins are sticky. How much are present depends on the quality of seeds. Some contain almost no toxins at all and those will produce nearly pure bufotenine. But others contain tons of toxins and so the results will be sticky and nauseating. The “toxins” aren’t poisonous, just unpleasant. They cause lots of nausea. A xylene boil or d-limonene boil as discussed in other threads will remove the toxic alkaloids and should be done if the resulting vapor causes lots nausea when inhaled.
69ron
Rising Star
No, not exactly. Much of it will have reacted with the acids forming salts that are basic or only very slightly acidic. Only the unreacted ammonia evaporates. So it will never return to it's original pH. It's possible for it to be slightly acidic though.
For example, ammonia mixed with bufotenine citrate would form freebase bufotenine and ammonium citrate. When the excess ammonia evaporates the pH will drop a little, but the ammonium citrate is still there and not as acidic as the bufotenine citrate was. So the pH will go up to about 11 when the ammonia is added, but not back down to the original pH after it evaporates.
For example, ammonia mixed with bufotenine citrate would form freebase bufotenine and ammonium citrate. When the excess ammonia evaporates the pH will drop a little, but the ammonium citrate is still there and not as acidic as the bufotenine citrate was. So the pH will go up to about 11 when the ammonia is added, but not back down to the original pH after it evaporates.
69ron
Rising Star
That's why ammonia is not good to use for snuff. Snuff needs to be alkaline with a pH of about 9. If you add ammonia to the seeds which have a natural pH of about 4-5, they will get up to pH 11, but after the ammonia evaporates the pH will drop, probably down to something like 7.5. I'm not sure. The final pH all depends on what acids and salts are naturally present in the snuff. For sure, it will not drop down to the original pH.
Garulfo
Rising Star
Thanks for the info Ron. I wondered if ammonia would be the alcalin of choice in case someone would want to extract bufotenine from seeds. After all it is very easy to get and the liquid form may have some advantages. What is still unclear is if the freebase bufotenine is dissolved in the ammmonia or if it is present as a precipitate.
If dissolved, just filtrating the liquid could give some solid extract avter evaporation ?
If not, what would happend when mixing ammonia and acetone ?
If dissolved, just filtrating the liquid could give some solid extract avter evaporation ?
If not, what would happend when mixing ammonia and acetone ?
Does any of the bufotenine evaporate away at 500F? I mean, it is not too far off from its boiling point. And does it remove all the impurities? Is it any difference between 500F and 250F which I have seen references to several places on this forum.69ron said:
And do you know of the boiling point of any of the bufotenine salts? I have read that salts often have higher boiling points compared to the freebase form.
69ron
Rising Star
Dagger said:
None of the bufotenine will evaporate away at 500 F. That's a whole 100 degrees from it's boiling point of 608 F (320 C).
250 F is more likely to leave more of the impurities present. But without knowing all the boiling points or decomposition temperatures of all the impurities, it's really just a guess.
I can’t find any boiling point numbers for any of the salt forms. Maybe someone else knows of some. If so, please post them here.
check out the d-limonene tek
SpasticSpaz
Rising Star
SWIM is doing a small-scale (10 seeds) test of how well water extraction works on colubrina seeds as the initial extraction step. Unfortunately, he was quite sloppy, but hopefully he still get usable results.
It would be nice if EVERYTHING in his bufo extraction was 100% food consumable (While acetone's not toxic, per se, it still not something he wants to mess around with in large quantities, plus it stinks).
Apologies if the pros/cons of a water extraction have already been hashed out.
It would be nice if EVERYTHING in his bufo extraction was 100% food consumable (While acetone's not toxic, per se, it still not something he wants to mess around with in large quantities, plus it stinks).
Apologies if the pros/cons of a water extraction have already been hashed out.
Fatcat
Rising Star
I have realized that boiling xylene would be a very risky idea so i am just going to order some D-limonene
Do you think that any terpenes would work not just orange?? I would love to have some peppermint flavored bufotenin
Do you think that any terpenes would work not just orange?? I would love to have some peppermint flavored bufotenin
SpasticSpaz
Rising Star
According to: http://ovidsp.tx.ovid.com/spa/ovidw...+Text=L|S.sh.15.16|0|00004471-199709000-00017, the main components are menthol @~40%, menthone @~20%, Cineole @~7%, and a variety of lesser components, mainly terpenes. They all have xlogp's between that of xylene and limonene, and most seem to have a sufficiently high boiling point, so it's conceivable that they could work
Frustratingly, SWIM cannot locate his smoking device, and thus cannot biossay his water extract, which turned out to be a shiny, slightly sticky powder.
Frustratingly, SWIM cannot locate his smoking device, and thus cannot biossay his water extract, which turned out to be a shiny, slightly sticky powder.
Garulfo
Rising Star
A first report of what a friend (I will call him SWIM) did with some yopo seeds (colubrina).
So he had 150 g of seeds that he finely crushed. Then he made 3 aciditic soaks at ph around 4.5 (vinegar). The result was dried in a oven and it remained 64 g of a sticky dark thick sirup (including probably some water).
Added some calcium carbonate and a pinch of sodium hydroxide to reach ph 10.
Dried again.
Then 60 ml of MEK+40 ml of naphta were added. But because of the solid nature of the dried brown stuff, SWIM heated it a bit so it melts and mix better with the MEK+naphta.
Liquid was poured in a jar, evaporated to around 20 ml and placed in a freezer.
Two layers were visible after a while : a dark brown one on the bottom which was solid and the liquid part which was milky.
The milky layer was fully evaporate and leaved a quite liquid sirup with misc colors from clear white-green to dark brown-green. SWIM do not know what is it and what to do with, is it some bufotenine ? It does not smell a lot.
The brown solid layer, once dried looks likes a delicious chocolate caramel, almost solid (like a caramel) and not sticky. Although obviously very different from the nice crystals other people get, SWIM could not resist to put a mini pinch of that caramel in a glass pipe for a bio assay (imagine the size of a ant head).
He smoked a little bit... uuuhhhh, that stuff is strong !
Quite easy to smoke but quickly a belly pressure was felt, then a head pressure, then a whole body load. Hopefully others were reported such possible effects so SWIM waited a bit.
Unpleasant effects lasted around 10 mn then SWIM felt nicely well, pretty euphoric for around 45 mn (euphoric is not the good word).
So the caramel-like substance looks undoubtly mainly bufotenine. It was weighted at 1800 mg. SWIM wonder if it worths to try to purify the caramel with limonene or keep it as is because the side effects a not that hard, at least for a so small amount (< 1 mg he guess). Later, SWIM will do a bio-assay with the other sirup.
SWIM is also pretty sure that more goodies can be extracted from the remaining carbonate+seeds mix.
So he had 150 g of seeds that he finely crushed. Then he made 3 aciditic soaks at ph around 4.5 (vinegar). The result was dried in a oven and it remained 64 g of a sticky dark thick sirup (including probably some water).
Added some calcium carbonate and a pinch of sodium hydroxide to reach ph 10.
Dried again.
Then 60 ml of MEK+40 ml of naphta were added. But because of the solid nature of the dried brown stuff, SWIM heated it a bit so it melts and mix better with the MEK+naphta.
Liquid was poured in a jar, evaporated to around 20 ml and placed in a freezer.
Two layers were visible after a while : a dark brown one on the bottom which was solid and the liquid part which was milky.
The milky layer was fully evaporate and leaved a quite liquid sirup with misc colors from clear white-green to dark brown-green. SWIM do not know what is it and what to do with, is it some bufotenine ? It does not smell a lot.
The brown solid layer, once dried looks likes a delicious chocolate caramel, almost solid (like a caramel) and not sticky. Although obviously very different from the nice crystals other people get, SWIM could not resist to put a mini pinch of that caramel in a glass pipe for a bio assay (imagine the size of a ant head).
He smoked a little bit... uuuhhhh, that stuff is strong !
Quite easy to smoke but quickly a belly pressure was felt, then a head pressure, then a whole body load. Hopefully others were reported such possible effects so SWIM waited a bit.
Unpleasant effects lasted around 10 mn then SWIM felt nicely well, pretty euphoric for around 45 mn (euphoric is not the good word).
So the caramel-like substance looks undoubtly mainly bufotenine. It was weighted at 1800 mg. SWIM wonder if it worths to try to purify the caramel with limonene or keep it as is because the side effects a not that hard, at least for a so small amount (< 1 mg he guess). Later, SWIM will do a bio-assay with the other sirup.
SWIM is also pretty sure that more goodies can be extracted from the remaining carbonate+seeds mix.
SpasticSpaz
Rising Star
OK, so the simple water extraction (Grind bufo seeds, boil, strain, basify, evap) turned out to be inactive, perhaps because SWIM didn't extract with acidic water or because SWIM was very sloppy in technique.
SWIM tried again this morning, this time with acidified water (he used some vinegar). He then took the result from that and did a limonene boil on it. The result from 10 seeds (2.2g), was ~40 mg of pale tan powder, seemed somewhat less fluffy than his DMT. He bioassayed 15mg of that and HOLY F-ING CRAP. It was difficult to make out reality because everything was sliding and patterning and morphing. Things were forming in the space in front of SWIM and three hours later there's still traces of patterns. None of SWIM's previous extractions came even close to this, the d-Limonene step seems almost magical to him. Not very euphoric, more calming, peaceful. No nausea was noted, though SWIM's face prickled intensely (almost painfully) through the come up (Is this still the toxic alkaloids, or is this part of bufo?).
SWIM plans next time to try extracting using a basic water, as bufotenine should still be soluble, but it will permit SWIM to skip the basifying step. SWIM wonders if there's any danger of the bufotenine forming sodium bufotenate should he use sodium carbonate as his base. He knows that it seems bufo does not form a stable calcium salt, but sodium is much more eager to form salts than calcium is.
SWIM tried again this morning, this time with acidified water (he used some vinegar). He then took the result from that and did a limonene boil on it. The result from 10 seeds (2.2g), was ~40 mg of pale tan powder, seemed somewhat less fluffy than his DMT. He bioassayed 15mg of that and HOLY F-ING CRAP. It was difficult to make out reality because everything was sliding and patterning and morphing. Things were forming in the space in front of SWIM and three hours later there's still traces of patterns. None of SWIM's previous extractions came even close to this, the d-Limonene step seems almost magical to him. Not very euphoric, more calming, peaceful. No nausea was noted, though SWIM's face prickled intensely (almost painfully) through the come up (Is this still the toxic alkaloids, or is this part of bufo?).
SWIM plans next time to try extracting using a basic water, as bufotenine should still be soluble, but it will permit SWIM to skip the basifying step. SWIM wonders if there's any danger of the bufotenine forming sodium bufotenate should he use sodium carbonate as his base. He knows that it seems bufo does not form a stable calcium salt, but sodium is much more eager to form salts than calcium is.