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Bufotenine Extraction

Migrated topic.
Could someone with a decent quantity of bufo available please determine the solubility of bufotenine in basic water?

Since it's probable the disgusting alkaloids are not soluble in basic water (as there's a good chance they lack bufotenine's phenol moiety), if the initial water extraction can be done with basic water, that could increase the purity even further.
I would also like to see that tested. SWIM doesn't have the time right now to do it.

Bufotenine (5-OH-DMT) is known to be soluble in alkali according to the Merck Index. I believe that's why it's best to freebase and extract it at a pH of about 8.0-9.5 and not much higher.

I believe that two of the undesirables are actually bufotenine N-Oxide and serotonin (5-OH-tryptamine), which should both be soluble in alkali as well. But I don't know for sure.

I believe that bufotenine N-Oxide is the sticky stuff that makes you nauseated and I believe it is likely the reason that bufotenine was once considered non-hallucinogenic because some of the earlier tests were probably mistakenly done using bufotenine N-Oxide. Bufotenine can oxidize into bufotenine N-oxide, but I'm not sure what circumstances cause it. SWIM has not seen this happen with his pure bufotenine.
Would ascorbic acid be a strong enough reducing agent to reduce the n-oxide?

Is ascorbic acid a stronger reducing agent in basic or acidic water? Looking at its reducing mechanism, I would guess basic, but I can't be certain.

SWIM tells me he wishes he could get his hands on some zinc powder.
Spastic, so after using SWIY's previous steps in this thread for extraction, does the bufotenine then have to be cleansed with acetone or go through any other steps before it's good/usable? Or are those steps just half of a whole tek?

Can SWIM use those steps instead of Jorkest's d-limonene tek? (which require acetone and making The Herbal Percolator)
just to tell you the THP that SWIM made was made out of an old hydrogen peroxide bottle and cotton balls..and then the liquid was caught in a jar...
mapp, SWIM followed the tek I posted exactly, no more steps before or after.

HOWEVER, he did this extraction on only 2.2 g of seeds (all he had left). The resulting extract was very potent for him, and looked fairly clean (light tan), but he tells me he cannot be sure of his quality. He believes that it possibly could be used in place of Jorkest's tek, but more testing is needed. Unfortunately, SWIM tells me that he will be unable to do anymore testing till June at the earliest. This frustrates SWIM immensely.
Spaz SWIM is willing to help you work on this new tek...it seems very promising..because acetone is the only part of his tek that he doesnt like..and he has a about 100g of seeds to test with..so maybe we can chat about it..and i can explain to him how to go about it
SWIM recently aquired 28g of a. Colubrina seeds, so he's happy to "experiment" following Spastic's steps.
He's looking to use about 4g instead of 2.2g.

Would calcium hydroxide be any "safer" or better in any way than sodium carbonate? SWIM has both, so he's just wondering. Would the amount be the same?

He's looking at something like this
Seed: 4g
Water: 200ml
Vinegar: ~5ml
Base: 1g ?
Limonene: 30ml

SWIM's new to extractions, does this look okay?

The only part of the tek he's not sure about is:
10. Scrape up into powder.
11. Heat in d-limonene till the limonene starts to simmer.
12. Decant limonene quickyl and let cool.
13. Decant limonene from solids that fall out when it cools.
14. Repeat 11-13 one more time with same limonene.

So the powder is mixed with limonene and simmered.. Then what exactly is decanted with what and where in step 12 & 13? :oops:
Could SWIY go in a little more detail there kindly? :?

Re calcium hydroxide vs. sodium carbonate: Both should be fine.

Re quantities: I'm not sure. I think it couldn't hurt to up the amount of vinegar, and you probably don't need so much base. If you have pH measuring device, I think I'd aim for a pH of ~11. Even if you don't have a pH measuring method, you can calculate out pretty well how much to use if you know exactly how much and of what concentration your vinegar is.

Re decanting: When you simmer the water extract in limonene, part of the water extract won't dissolve. You decant the limonene into a separate container, without permitting the gunk that didn't dissolve when the limonene was simmering to come over as well. It's the exact same thing as the limonene part of Jorkest's tek.

Good luck!
pH 11 is WAY TOO HIGH. If using calcium hydroxide, the bufotenine will start to decompose. Shoot for 8.5-9.5 and don’t go any higher.

Calcium hydroxide and also ammonium hydroxide (and very likely sodium hydroxide) can decompose bufotenine at pH 11, so be careful not to let the pH get too high. Sodium carbonate can’t decompose bufotenine at pH 11 according to SWIM’s tests.
SpasticSpaz said:
Re decanting: When you simmer the water extract in limonene, part of the water extract won't dissolve. You decant the limonene into a separate container, without permitting the gunk that didn't dissolve when the limonene was simmering to come over as well. It's the exact same thing as the limonene part of Jorkest's tek.

Edit: Okay, SWIM added limonene to his dark brownish powder and simmered for about 3 minutes.. He let it stop simmering for a few seconds and poured the limonene through a coffee filter into a pan container. The only thing that really got in the filter was a little bit of the brown powder. So the bufotenine is supposed to "fall" out of this cooling limonene? It's been about 50 minutes and SWIM sees nothing but the limonene. He just has this and the brown powder in his stovetop pan.. :?:

So after an hour of cooling he is to take just the limonene in the container and simmer that again in the powder, and repeat filtering back into the container? Then the powder is trash?

SWIM thinks something didn't work. He followed all the steps, but used 4g seeds, 200ml water, 25ml 5% acidity vinegar, 800mg sodium carbonate, and 30ml limonene. What's the final product supposed to look like?
what do you all think about a dry tek a/b on the seeds using boiling xylene both times?
mapp..the filtering is probably filtering out all the bufo..so maybe if you soak it in acetone or alcohol you may be able to get it out...
mapp, that sucks...

I think Jorkest is right in that a good chunk of the bufotenine's probably in the filter. SWIY's expected yield would probably be ~100 mg, which is a _really_ small amount of stuff in absolute terms, easily small enough, I would think, that it could all be trapped in the filter.

SWIM tells me he didn't filter the limonene, he just decanted as much as possible (Which was most of it, the junk stayed pretty well at the bottom). That's why he did it twice, so that the amount of bufo left in the d-limonene he was unable to pour out from simmering container along with the nasty junk would be minimal.
Fuego said:
well, in concept will it pull it out nice and pure or leave a bunch of gook?

yes it would clean it very nicely..BUT...you will have trace amounts of xylene in it..

69ron's FOAF ate 100mg of xylene boiled bufotenine to test it out..and he said he was burping up xylene...which is gross..

so if you were to do a xylene boil...you would then want to take your crystals and put them in some acetone..and THEN let that evap..because whats going to happen is that the acetone will break apart the crystal lattice..and free the xylene caught in there...then you would evaporate the acetone..and you will be left with probably not as pretty crystals..but they should have a significantly less xylene content
SpasticSpaz said:
Dagger, could you please report back on how SWIY's end product was?
From 6 gram seeds I got 133 mg(about 2.2% yield) of black tarry material. No powder. I only did one limonene boil on it. Might get cleaner if I do several boils on it.

Btw, why didn't my bufotenine stick to the bottom of the pan when pouring off? I thought you could just pour of the limonene then dry the rest. I had to siphon off most of it, then dry the rest.

I have not tried it yet, don't have anything to smoke it with. Besides, trying out the oral route, by charcoaling the seeds. Someone I know tried it out, after I told him about it. Turned out he had a nice experience, with no nausea from it. Another one smoked the powder, with the same result. Needs to be charcoaled though, to avoid the nasty effects.
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