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Carboxylated vs Decarboxylated cannabis

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sciencecoherence

SWIM Someone Who Is Me
Hello,

This morning I just start wondering again about the duality carboxylated vs decarboxylated cannabinoids (because I am just getting CBGa isolate to finalize a synergistic pharmaceutical product) and every time I found the same recurrent information, carboxylated cannabis don't make you high.
I totally disagree with that, I remember my first time juicing fresh cannabis plant and getting so nice and mellow, then I pursuit more research and made oil extract from fresh sativa flowers and getting so high for 12h or more every time I took it, very clear and very psychedelic..also with carboxylated cannabis I don't really feel any tolerance building up.
On the other hand it seems that, if I use decarboxylated cannabis or cannabinoid extract, even from just dry flowers, I don't get the same effect at all, I get high but I also get very negative effect, I can have paranoia, I don't have energy anymore and I often stay stuck in thoughts loops. I feel also the same kind of "something is wrong with that" when I use decarboxylated CBD or CBG.

Does anyone having the same sort of experience ?
 
Since science with regard to humans is far from "perfect", you may be an outlier and exception.

It could also be a placebo effect with carboxylated cannabis, which is neither good nor bad.

Most people need cannabis to be decarbed before ingesting in order to feel effects.

You may have some kind of sensitivity as well that allows you this experience, since it seems to increase and intensify when you do decarb.

One love
 
It strikes me as something that ought to be looked into is whether under some circumstances, and/or in some people, the decarboxylation occurs in vivo somehow. There will also be some degree of natural variation in the exact morphology of cannabinoid receptors between different people. Whether this could give rise to a sensitivity to the carboxylated cannabinoids would be a further aspect for research.
 
downwardsfromzero said:
It strikes me as something that ought to be looked into is whether under some circumstances, and/or in some people, the decarboxylation occurs in vivo somehow. There will also be some degree of natural variation in the exact morphology of cannabinoid receptors between different people. Whether this could give rise to a sensitivity to the carboxylated cannabinoids would be a further aspect for research.
Click to expand...

I had thought of this as well but wasn't sure how likely it may be. Do you think it could be an enzymatic interaction that may decarb cannabis?

One love
 
I am taking the two possibilities in account I actually had the same thoughts, enzymatic interaction and/or variation in cannabinoid receptors, but if the decarboxylation would occur in my body why I just have a complete different experience, I don't experience stronger effects from decarboxylated cannabis but just very different effect, mostly negative in my case, on the other hand very positive with carboxylated cannabis, feeling even more intense and psychedelic.
Definitely not a placebo 😁 I met quite a lot of people having the same return of experience and some other having absolutely no effect indeed.
 
sciencecoherence said:
then I pursuit more research and made oil extract from fresh sativa flowers and getting so high for 12h or more every time I took it, very clear and very psychedelic
Click to expand...
How did you extract the oil? Could the extraction method have converted some of the THCA into THC?


downwardsfromzero said:
It strikes me as something that ought to be looked into is whether under some circumstances, and/or in some people, the decarboxylation occurs in vivo somehow.
Click to expand...
Don't want to contradict you, just talking, but to me it seems unlikely, since decarboxylases are substrate-specific.

downwardsfromzero said:
There will also be some degree of natural variation in the exact morphology of cannabinoid receptors between different people. Whether this could give rise to a sensitivity to the carboxylated cannabinoids would be a further aspect for research.
Click to expand...
THCA is active at cannabinoid receptors. The lack of psychoactivity is caused by its inability to cross the blood-brain barrier.
 
THCA has some activity. There are other cannabinoids in the plant. Some THC is generally already decarbed, you can decarb to an extent by just getting the flower toasty dry. Any extraction process likely decarbed some THCA.

There are too many variables to say you were %100 comparing decarbed to non-decarbed.

In vivo conversion is an interesting and possible thought.
 
Could it be that decarboxylation is not nessecary at all, but that most of the methods of taking cannabis incude a process where it happens automatically because of heat?

With oral cannabis, heat is usually nessecary to get the cannabinoïds to dissolve in fats.

I didn't know you can make cannabis juice, but maybe if you drink it, some cannabinoïds do get absorbed into the bloodstream, without needing a fatty medium first.

For instance because of fatty stomach contents, or because cannabis juice is an emulsion containing tiny droplets of fat?
 
dragonrider said:
Could it be that decarboxylation is not nessecary at all, but that most of the methods of taking cannabis incude a process where it happens automatically because of heat?
Click to expand...
The second part is true, but decarboxylation is necessary (eating fresh buds won't get you high). It's for this reason that Cannabis consumption always involves heating it.

dragonrider said:
With oral cannabis, heat is usually nessecary to get the cannabinoïds to dissolve in fats.

I didn't know you can make cannabis juice, but maybe if you drink it, some cannabinoïds do get absorbed into the bloodstream, without needing a fatty medium first.

For instance because of fatty stomach contents, or because cannabis juice is an emulsion containing tiny droplets of fat?
Click to expand...
Even in fresh Cannabis, THCA is already dissolved in plant oils. Eating fresh buds will surely let cannabinoids pass into the bloodstream, but since THCA can't cross the blood-brain barrier it can't have any psychoactivity.

When making edibles, heat is necessary not only to let the cannabinoids pass from the buds to the fat or oil that is used in the edible recipe, but also to decarboxylate the cannabinoids (combining business with pleasure). So THCA gets decarboxylated into THC and the latter can cross the blood-brain barrier and be psychoactive.
 
Yes I have notice taking the raw cannabis with fat do accentuate the effects, for exemple during my last summer retreat in France I was growing some plants in the garden and I was blending the fresh flowers in smoothies with fruits and coconut oil.. literally I have being non stop high for 3 months :twisted: and never felt any downside or tolerance from the cannabis like I usually do while smoking or even using dry material.
The last extract I have done with pure sativa and hybrid sativa I have grown in Ecuador were extracted in 192 proof cane alcohol, the fresh buds were immediately put into the alcohol in shade for a few days and then the alcohol dried then the resulting pure cannabis oil dissolved into a mix of coconut oil and reishi spore oil for external and internal use :love:
Yes you can make juice it's a great way to use male specimens and leafs in general, and I always got nicely high from it, not like with the flowers but i definitely feel psychoactivity.
I can't grow this year and I got some cannabis thc crystal extract from sativa hybrid, I tried two time to use it and I just feel nothing compare to what I feel from my extraction with fresh flowers or juicing/blending experiences. I might give it another try but I fear getting in the same horrible feeling that I usually do with anything decarb using heat or even just dry.
So now I am just seeking getting real THCa isolate and keeping my research with CDAa and CBGa isolate, I got the same feeling with any cannabinoid, if I take CBD oil I just got mixed feeling from it, if it's CBDa that I got from a CO2 extract I just feel so good! Did I still never find any explanation to that except my long time history of cannabis usage might have bought me there. I have also notice that even if carboxylated cannabis don't get you high the medicinal quality might me much more interesting.
Sorry I have been repeating myself some time and insisting a lot about the different feeling I got from both "ways" of using it but I got really a long time experience with that and I always end up with the same result it's not just from a few disparate tries but a lot of research and with rigorous scientific method I always use to test any plants extraction or chemicals.
 
sciencecoherence said:
The last extract I have done with pure sativa and hybrid sativa I have grown in Ecuador were extracted in 192 proof cane alcohol, the fresh buds were immediately put into the alcohol in shade for a few days and then the alcohol dried then the resulting pure cannabis oil dissolved into a mix of coconut oil and reishi spore oil for external and internal use :love:
Click to expand...
I think this process would decarboxylate THCA al least to some extent, so maybe the effects you feel are mainly from a low dose of THC.


sciencecoherence said:
So now I am just seeking getting real THCa isolate and keeping my research with CDAa and CBGa isolate, I got the same feeling with any cannabinoid, if I take CBD oil I just got mixed feeling from it, if it's CBDa that I got from a CO2 extract I just feel so good!
Click to expand...
Those acids are very unstable and rapidly decarboxylate at normal temperatures. When scientists study the effects of pure THCA they have to keep it at very cold temperatures, many degrees below water freezing point, to be sure none of it gets converted into THC.
So when you buy one of those isolates by the time you take it part of it has already undergone decarboxylation into the corresponding cannabinoid. So if you take THCA isolate there will be some THC in it.
 
Ok things got more clear, so even the fact that the plant material getting in friction with the blades of a blender or the screw and press of a juicer create some heat and decarboxylation, maybe adding oil and also citrus can accentuate the potency.
The extraction process might effectively have turn the final product to be psychoactive especially during the drying process

That still not giving me any answer about why I experience so different type of effects, but I also look to something more subjective and from a long experience of communicating with plants and nature, that I have been just more and more told to use raw material to keep the integrity of the molecular vibratory field, it's more like if I use things in their raw forms I vibrate completely with it
 
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