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Could DMT be neurotoxic?

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hello all,
my name is canary. i've been living in this coalmine called hyperspace for the past year and couple months. as in....LIVING..in here.

the minute you see me lose it, you should have a pretty good answer to your original question.

i have been blessed with any extremely low tolerance for DMT. i break through on one giant lungful which, at times, is no more than .02 . i have days when i go a half-dozen times into the deepest reaches of breakthrough. i am fine. i am better than fine. my mind works better now than it ever has. i would be fearlessly honest with all of you if that weren't the case. i owe at least that much to you all for the love and support you have given me.

is DMT neurotoxic? i say no. i say hell no. however, to the OP- my "relationship" with spice (and it IS just that...a RELATIONSHIP) has always been one of deep love and gratitude. if i ever have a day that i simply do NOT feel called, i do not go. i happen to get called a lot. i think that goes back to the love and gratitude part of it. it's a symbiosis you see. you get out exactly what you put in. if you are just doing it for no apparent reason, you are going to get no apparent benefit. if there is a part of you that would openly admit that you are essentially being wreckless with such a sacrament, do not be surprised when the sacrament gets a bit wreckless with you.

step back. re-center your intent. get clear on why you do this is the first place. PURITY OF INTENT, PURITY OF EXECUTION, PURITY OF EXPERIENCE!!!

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!!
 
You know i have more and more people in my life that dont fully understand this stuff telling me im reckless and overdoing it..mostly becasue THEY cannot imagine doing this stuff like that themselves out of fear..I have spent a few months smoking DMT daily, and salvia as well..then bufotenine nearly daily for a while as well..before all that it was mushrooms like 2-3 nights a week..the last few weeks its been all ayahuasca and bufotenine..I have not journeyed at all in 7 days now and thats a long time for me..

But for some people I dunno I guess they just cannot do this stuff like that..I feel drawn to it like its a calling..but i can also live with that level of strangeness in my life..

Diff strokes for diff folks I guess.
 
I've mentioned this before, but one time, I swore to god I was going to stop breathing. I called for my sitter (this was with Ayahuasca), and went through a literal life-and-death struggled, for hours, just to breathe.

When it was over, the first thing I did was ask my sitter, "WHAT DID I SOUND LIKE?!?!"

Nothing... like I was peacefully asleep.

I have traveled many times inside the body, spoken with my cells, took tours riding between synapses on a golden dragon of light. I know the inside of my body very well. This led me to conclude: in my case, and therefore in a possibility of your case, this is simply a HYPERAWARENESS of one's own body. The tack-tack-tack might just be the most up-close-and-personal look you've ever been given at your own neurons.

But if you have no intentions, I highly suggest you take a break.

Hasn't there been talk about how DMT binds quicker to certain receptors, and therefore teaches seratonin to act more efficiently, alleviating depression?
 
The last post reminded me of my pony's first vaped freebase session.
He just did his first extraction, got his mare to sit down and watch him for safety purposes.
And hit the crackpipe filled with DMT like he had no idea what it would do....which he didn't.
He proceeded to lie down on his back, which is funny looking, him being a pony and all.
He told me th story of what it was like, but that is not the reason for my posting.
He said it literaly felt like minutes passed between each breath, and at times it would freak him out, but never too much.
Afterwards he asked the mare how he was breathing, and she said he just breathed normaly like someone takeing a nap, but every now and then would do a hard breath.

After some contemplation he figured out that he was just so far gone and unused to the timedilation that the normal breathing he did simply didn't relay the message from the autonemous brain to the consious side, and that he then took deep breaths, (the ones he thought were his only breaths and spaced minutes appart). He said it was 15 minutes on the dot before he was bid farewell and the show ended.
 
Hey guys, I just wanted to add my two cents as well.
DMT is not different from any other drug on the planet, they can be used and they can be abused. The ones we use are for benefit, be every drug used today comes with risk in the form of "Side effects". It doesn't matter if its Chemotherapy drugs, asprin, or even endogenous (produced inside your body) drugs like oestrogen, adrenaline or Thyroid hormone.
DubRules - i think you've gotten your answer from the community. You are abusing DMT, ask yourself why. Look at your life, your stresses. Do you use it as a coping/escaping mechanism or more like a craving? I suggest you go see a local psychiatrist or clinician who can help you with these issues if you are honest with them.

Fractal enchantment & antrocles:
I am glad that you two are able to experience the wonders of DMT so often, but as I said, it doesn't come without its risks. DMT is a 5-HT(2a/2c) agonist in the CNS, as with LSD. I personally have seen a fellow college lose his entire life, his gf, his job, his friends and almost his profession for taking LSD too frequently. He ended up in rehab after a psychotic episode from drug induced psychosis.
I'm not saying this will happen to you. You know your bodies better than I do. But I can tell you that you are both using it in extreme quantities, and there is just not sufficient documentation of long term DMT abuse to be confident that it will not cause some alteration of brain chemistry which could result in something like a psychotic episode, convulsions, or comatose states.
We just don't know. Our minds are very durable, but they can only handle so much before they reach the breaking point, its always better to be safe than sorry. Taking breaks, limiting use.

Anyways,
Be well friends, i wish good health on you all!
DJ
 
^ try dissolving lye in naphtha, you can't. You just can't.

It's BS. Even STB's that use massive amounts of lye are lye free. Other crap gets pulled with STB's but no lye.

As for DMT being toxic, no. The LD50 is somewhere around 14grams IV for a 200lb person. If you can use that much you deserve to die...but that's not really an answer to the question, I guess if DMT was neurotoxic we'd all have some issues, as it is in our brains, while we don't know 100% where or why it is produced, it is there.

For further proof we have all the anecdotal evidence that many of our members have shared. I.E. using DMT daily for long period of time w/o issue.

For more proof we have the studies that were done on Ayahuasca, while it IS a combination of chemicals, there is no evidence that suggests MAOI's somehow protect the brain from damage. People who use Aya on a regular basis are overall mentally HEALTHIER, HAPPIER, AND SMARTER than their counterparts that do not use Ayahuasca.

So no, I do not have any worries that DMT could be neurotoxic....it just doesn't work like that.
 
etherealsamba said:
Infundibulum said:
etherealsamba said:
oh and dont use lye, it gets pulled into the solvents.
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Misinformation
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dude, if your not carefuil, that shit gets pulled.. either way, might not seem like it.. but w/e.
Click to expand...
If you're not careful you don't mess with lye in the first place.

And probably you don't do extractions altogether!

Extraction is all about patience, persistence and great grea care.
 
There is no substance in the world that you can take in just any possible amount you can swallow, inhale or snort.

There is no reason to assume that DMT is an exeption to this rule.

There is no reason to believe anything good will come out of this numbing of your mind.

I never thought DMT could aid in escapist behaviour, but i guess sensory and mental overload can result in the apparently desireble shutdown two.

DMT is not neurotoxic, but negative psychological stress IS, and this is a proven fact.
In this case the use of DMT could possibly be a catalyst for negative stress.

The good news is that the brain is highly flexible and most people recover from nervous breakdowns.

Sergei Rachmaninov even wrote his most brilliant pieces after recovering from a severe depression.

So...

There is no reason to think that you won't be just doing fine and have a great long and healthy live, if you take the recomended break now.
 
Different modes of ingestion with drugs can have rather different physical consequences; think the difference between the fairly benign effects of insufflated and vapourised bufotonine and the toxic effects of Dr Isbell's iv experiments described in the literature. Likewise the effects of vaped and snorted 5 meo versus the often toxic effects of 'pharma' prepared with such.
I believe- if used sensibly and rather sparingly- vapourised dmt is probably fairly innocuous; however, I don't think you can extrapolate this from anecdotal evidence relating to oral use. The experiment is ongoing...
 
Life is lethal. I can think of hundreds of things which my on te face of it, be deemed normal, but at closer inspection is an absolutly lethal gamble.
That being said there are enough people who have been useing the spice since the 60's and we are yet to hear of any epidemic aftereffect now nearly 50 years later.
I'll be damned if I have to live under the NWO in aonther 50 years anyway, not to mention bening an octagenarian.

I have only seen two peope have "unpleasant" (in my opinion) reactions to vapeing DMT, and both them were going on asif nothing happened latere on in the same day.
In fact I was told by the one young man's friends, that they could see a positive reaction in him immediatly as he would normaly be a reckless partier, and yet he was just haveing an ordinary good time at a new years party, not even getting very wasted. So I have no doubt about its mental safey even. We all have harrowing nightmares occasionaly I am sure, yet none of us get destroyed by them mentaly. DMT also seeming to operate from a very state specific memory base is like a dream in that good or bad what ever happend starts to slip through our fingers like sand the moment the experience is over. And the harder you grasp, the quicker it runs. My experience with DMT is that it represents the topmost things in the subconcious to the concious mind in unmistakable ways.
There is also reports of an increase in serotonin receptors in regular aya users, I am not sure if this applies to vaped DMT too, but I suspect so, as I have gone from manic depression to a pretty jovial and content state which I easily manage for the 3 weeks or so between haveing sesions with my hyperspcae partner. We tend to have so many syncronistic shared experiences, that doing it wihtout him there to share the sights is almost unthinkable.
 
There's something seriously wrong with the OP's picture.

DMT has always encouraged feelings of strength, health, and well-being, in my experience. It's honestly the farthest from feeling "neurotoxic" of all of the drugs I have ever sampled. Leaves me with a strong suspicion that something toxic ended up in the batch of DMT you're using.

If I were you, I'd buy a fresh bag of MHRB, find alternative naphtha and lye brands, and perform another extraction. Or, if you had previously been buying your DMT from a dealer - extract it yourself. And, of course, as others have added, slow down a bit...
 
Take a good break, 2-3 months at least. And when you go back do a Sodium Carbonate wash on your spice before using it.
 
I will add in my experience here.

I of course have not been using the sacrament as long as many on this board, it has only been about a month now.

This month has been pretty heavy usage though. I Use it multiple times a week, sometimes a couple days in a row, and every often multiple times in one day.

Ever since using it I have not noticed one negative side effect. Not one headache, not one pain, not and residual bad effects whatsoever.

In fact ever since I started smoking it I have started feeling better. Everytime after I come down I feel refreshed, better than I did before.

By an hour after I am completely normal like it never even happened. It just seems DMT is processed by the body VERY WELL..

Compared to taking LSD and feeling tired as crap the next day. You can tell it takes somewhat of a toll on your body. (Dont get me wrong I love LSD)

Not only is there no negative side effects, but it has helped me in many ways such as not getting aggravated as easy etc.

If I ever experience negative side effects beginning of course I will have to evaluate my use, but as of now it seems very safe on the body compared to any other drug or alcohol...
 
I think it's silly to say that DMT or any other drug for the matter is "safe". Moderation...moderation...moderation. Although with DMT i think one should be more worried about mental side effects then physical. I've had long term visual side effects from DMT (that was also from blasting off on other drugs...lol) but regardless they were still there. I just find it hard to believe that something that feels so good and stretches my limits of understanding to it's breaking point doesn't come with a price to pay. It's almost like it's too good to be true!
 
I’m sure at some point DMT is bad for you. Just like water, there’s a dose of water that you need to live, and a much larger dose of water can kill you. Everything that you can put in your body is like that. Vitamin C will kill you if you take too much. Salt will kill you if you take too much.

For nearly all drugs, even strychnine, there is a safe dose.

The question is really if DMT causes damage in the normal doses used for hallucinogenic effects. There is no documented evidence showing this. However, a lack of evidence is not necessarily proof of anything either way.

I would say using DMT, LSD, caffeine, and all other drugs are risky health wise. We don’t even know the full scope of what caffeine does to human beings. We are still learning how the body works, and still learning about how these drugs work. There are regularly new findings about what caffeine does and what drinking coffee does to human beings.

No one has done an in depth long term health study on all the effects caffeine intake has on human beings, as far as I am aware. I drink coffee everyday and have done so most of my adult life, so has my father, my brother, my mom, etc. It appears to be relatively safe for constant long term use. But am I different because of this? Over the many years has my body been altered by the regular caffeine intake? Most likely my body has been permanently altered by regular caffeine use for so long, but altered in a such a subtle way that it’s not easily noticed. I’m sure at some point science will find caffeine causes several permanent changes to the body after being abused for so long. It’s likely that my dopaminergic functions have been permanently altered slightly by daily use of caffeine. This has possibly affected how I think and react to the world around me.

Everything you ingest affects your body. For example, if you eat a lot of sweets, your teeth can be permanently damaged from the bacteria that flourish from the sweets being present on the teeth. If you eat too much food, this alters your metabolism making you require less food, and it appears to be a very long term alteration. Your body is always adjusting itself to what you eat. That includes everything entering your body from vitamins, to minerals, to fats and sugars, and drugs as well. These all affect your body for a long time.

My point is that, DMT is likely going to alter you, but whether the alteration is negative or not has not been proven. It appears that long term ayahuasca use does alter the brain, causing more 5-htp receptor sites to be created (long term MDMA use apparently does the opposite). This is thought to lessen the chance of developing depression, so it’s thought to be a good thing. MDMA seems to do the opposite, and long term MDMA use is thought to increase the chance of developing depression. Regular use of ayahuasca should reverse the long term negative effects of MDMA.
 
I think if you are intune withyour body enough you can tell when something is causing immediate negative effects. I know for me coffee feels toxic..doesnt matter if its organic or not..it just makes me feel like shit every time..yerba mate on the other dand makes me feel great. Not sure why that is..

Cigarrettes make me feel like shit..yet organic pipe tobacco once a month or so and i feel just fine..alcohol feels like a downright poision..whereas ayahuasca feels like the healthiest thing possible..

Im learning more and more to trust my body..it knows.
 
fractal enchantment said:
I think if you are intune withyour body enough you can tell when something is causing immediate negative effects. I know for me coffee feels toxic..doesnt matter if its organic or not..it just makes me feel like shit every time..yerba mate on the other dand makes me feel great. Not sure why that is..

Cigarrettes make me feel like shit..yet organic pipe tobacco once a month or so and i feel just fine..alcohol feels like a downright poision..whereas ayahuasca feels like the healthiest thing possible..

Im learning more and more to trust my body..it knows.
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Trusting in your body is a good way to go about things, but there are centain conditions that just won't show itself untill the damage has been done and by then its already too late. Lets take HPPD for instance. Not much is known about this disorder, some people get it after their first trip, others get it after their 50th trip. Some people will get it years after they are done tripping. Whether HPPD is an actual problem, is not the issue but we do know it exists, we do know its effects, and we do know the problems it can cause for people. I've also read in many places that psychadelics have a tendancy to bring out latent mental disorders in individuals

Saying you trust in your body is pretty much saying you trust and follow your instincts. The body is controlled by the mind, and the mind is very fallible. The mind is capable of greatness, it is also equally capable in bring wrong and being deceived. I'm definitely not saying that what you are doing is bad, but it's always good to "keep all the bases covered" so you are better prepaired in case something bad does happen.
 
69ron said:
I’m sure at some point DMT is bad for you. Just like water, there’s a dose of water that you need to live, and a much larger dose of water can kill you. Everything that you can put in your body is like that. Vitamin C will kill you if you take too much. Salt will kill you if you take too much.

For nearly all drugs, even strychnine, there is a safe dose.

The question is really if DMT causes damage in the normal doses used for hallucinogenic effects. There is no documented evidence showing this. However, a lack of evidence is not necessarily proof of anything either way.

I would say using DMT, LSD, caffeine, and all other drugs are risky health wise. We don’t even know the full scope of what caffeine does to human beings. We are still learning how the body works, and still learning about how these drugs work. There are regularly new findings about what caffeine does and what drinking coffee does to human beings.

No one has done an in depth long term health study on all the effects caffeine intake has on human beings, as far as I am aware. I drink coffee everyday and have done so most of my adult life, so has my father, my brother, my mom, etc. It appears to be relatively safe for constant long term use. But am I different because of this? Over the many years has my body been altered by the regular caffeine intake? Most likely my body has been permanently altered by regular caffeine use for so long, but altered in a such a subtle way that it’s not easily noticed. I’m sure at some point science will find caffeine causes several permanent changes to the body after being abused for so long. It’s likely that my dopaminergic functions have been permanently altered slightly by daily use of caffeine. This has possibly affected how I think and react to the world around me.

Everything you ingest affects your body. For example, if you eat a lot of sweets, your teeth can be permanently damaged from the bacteria that flourish from the sweets being present on the teeth. If you eat too much food, this alters your metabolism making you require less food, and it appears to be a very long term alteration. Your body is always adjusting itself to what you eat. That includes everything entering your body from vitamins, to minerals, to fats and sugars, and drugs as well. These all affect your body for a long time.

My point is that, DMT is likely going to alter you, but whether the alteration is negative or not has not been proven. It appears that long term ayahuasca use does alter the brain, causing more 5-htp receptor sites to be created (long term MDMA use apparently does the opposite). This is thought to lessen the chance of developing depression, so it’s thought to be a good thing. MDMA seems to do the opposite, and long term MDMA use is thought to increase the chance of developing depression. Regular use of ayahuasca should reverse the long term negative effects of MDMA.
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For me, 69Ron, its all about balance. What you said is completely true, your body is naturally set - up to adapt itself to your living conditions. If you intake cafeine every day, you will feel tired when you've not had your cafeine. If you smoke, your nicotinic and acetylcholine receptors become accustom to that level of intake.

What we must do ourselves though, is walk the balance. Its no good for the soul to deprive oneself of the sweet fufilling flavour of a cup of coffee forevermore, is it? But likewise, your teeth will go brown if you drink it every day.
 
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