Potentially deadly! Datura seeds for lucid dreaming?

[Schahin92]

So dear community.

I read a story of taking low amounts of Datura seeds around 1-3 or 1-5 to have instant vivid and lucid dreaming at night.

What experiences have you done and is it really safe? Could there be variying potencies that do induce delirium if the seeds are too potent?

 

[Jamie01]

Vividness does not = lucidity IME.

Mostly it seems lucidity is something that some people find themselves experiencing frequently and always have while some seem to never really have the experience.

All these techniques seem secondary to whatever makes people do it naturally.

For me, it goes hand in hand with sleep paralysis. Both lucidity and sleep paralysis have been with my my whole life.

 

[Alice the Small]

Mostly it seems lucidity is something that some people find themselves experiencing frequently and always have while some seem to never really have the experience.

All these techniques seem secondary to whatever makes people do it naturally.

I tend to share that opinion. I suspect I've been lucid dreaming all my life. At one point, around 20 years ago, I decided to 'stop dreaming' and instantly, I no longer remembered my dreams at all. Five or so years later, I changed my mind, decided I would dream again, and BOOM, that very night I not only resumed my dream life but had an OOBE. I did not even know the term OOBE until I researched that amazing experience. At that time, I also stumbled across the term lucid dreaming. I felt I had either already experienced it or the possibility was there for me, so I started working on it purposefully.

For me, it goes hand in hand with sleep paralysis. Both lucidity and sleep paralysis have been with my my whole life.

Thankfully, I do not experience sleep paralysis! I don't think I would like it. I tend toward claustrophobia and that seems to be of the same nature! *shudder*

 

[Prima Materia]

Did anyone experiment with henbane (Hyoscyamus niger) seeds?
Some years ago I bought some seeds, made seedlings and had a few plants that seeded heavily and since them every year a plant or two will pop-up from the soil.
I leave them to seed again every year.

As you can imagine I've got lots and lots of henbane seeds.

 

[Transform]

Did anyone experiment with henbane (Hyoscyamus niger) seeds?
Some years ago I bought some seeds, made seedlings and had a few plants that seeded heavily and since them every year a plant or two will pop-up from the soil.
I leave them to seed again every year.

As you can imagine I've got lots and lots of henbane seeds.

While I kind of love the idea, Dale Pendell's accounts of henbane intoxication sound like pure madness.

I'm surprised we've only had the one mention of mandrake so far in this thread. I've tried a (supposed) mandrake tea and what I wes reliably informed was mandrake-infused brandy but neither of them had a noticeable effect above what could be ascribed comfortably to the copious amounts of ganja that got consumed on those same evenings (over twenty years apart, at that).

I can't honestly say I recall anything spectacular from my dreams in those instances, either.

 

[northape]

Did anyone experiment with henbane (Hyoscyamus niger) seeds?

I need to grow everything from scratch here, and I usually only run one project a summer. So far, I've only managed to grow cannabis, tobacco, and datura. By the way, I remember why I never made a salve from Datura for my mom: I kept getting memory problems from my experiments and read that tropane alkaloids could trigger dementia and similar problems in the elderly. It's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Sakkadelic]

I'm surprised we've only had the one mention of mandrake so far in this thread.

My experience with mandrake for dreaming parallels that described by other memebrs, immersive vivid dreams, when you have a nightshades dream you know it right away, it's a different quality of dreaming.

The one time I drank the root tea I had a bit unpleasant experience, my nearsight vision became blurry and felt very dehydrated, and I was falling in and out of reality like dreams and being very confused about what is real and what is not.

I recently made a mandrake oil that is supposed to be strong, while it does work for pain relief it is not having effects on my dreams. Maybe the beeswax needed to make it into an ointment plays a role, locking and protecting the alkaloids allowing for full absorption. I'll know about that once I get some beeswax, people here just toss it back to the bees so it's a bit hard to find.

It is also worth mentioning that the effects of nightshades are cumulative.

 

[doubledog]

The one time I drank the root tea I had a bit unpleasant experience, my nearsight vision became blurry and felt very dehydrated, and I was falling in and out of reality like dreams and being very confused about what is real and what is not.

Thank you for this report, as it means that mandrake is very similar to other nightshades in its effects. I got an impression from online reports that it is somehow different from datura (or others tropane plants), but it seems that it belongs to the same family.

 

[blig-blug]

An important point when discussing Datura: alkaloid content is known to vary a lot. So it can be difficult to know how much you're taking. It's probably a good idea to always start very low when trying a new batch.

Here's an interesting article about it. The authors had the hypothesis that maybe cultural taboos around Datura were stronger where the species used had more variation (because there would be more accidental overdoses, etc.). They found it to probably not be the case, but they have good information on the ranges of alkaloid content in different species and plant parts.

 

[James-TX]

An important point when discussing Datura: alkaloid content is known to vary a lot. So it can be difficult to know how much you're taking. It's probably a good idea to always start very low when trying a new batch.

Here's an interesting article about it. The authors had the hypothesis that maybe cultural taboos around Datura were stronger where the species used had more variation (because there would be more accidental overdoses, etc.). They found it to probably not be the case, but they have good information on the ranges of alkaloid content in different species and plant parts.

It grows down one side of my house. Beautiful flower. It's called Devil's Trumpet for good reason.
Have you tried it? Seriously interested in experiences, honestly I've never heard a good one.
It's a deliriant not a hallucinogen, read too many bad trips.

If you're interested in Lucid Dreaming, I have the Monroe Institute's tapes on Lucid Dreaming, + work books. Give me a shout I'll send them to you.

cheers'

 

[Sakkadelic]

Thank you for this report, as it means that mandrake is very similar to other nightshades in its effects. I got an impression from online reports that it is somehow different from datura (or others tropane plants), but it seems that it belongs to the same family.

Yes it is largely the same, what i've heard is that mandrake and henbane are more special than datura and brugmansia in terms of being smoother and better quality, they can be used on sensetive parts of the body without causing irritation.

 

[James-TX]

I tend to share that opinion. I suspect I've been lucid dreaming all my life. At one point, around 20 years ago, I decided to 'stop dreaming' and instantly, I no longer remembered my dreams at all. Five or so years later, I changed my mind, decided I would dream again, and BOOM, that very night I not only resumed my dream life but had an OOBE. I did not even know the term OOBE until I researched that amazing experience. At that time, I also stumbled across the term lucid dreaming. I felt I had either already experienced it or the possibility was there for me, so I started working on it purposefully.



Thankfully, I do not experience sleep paralysis! I don't think I would like it. I tend toward claustrophobia and that seems to be of the same nature! *shudder*

Lucid dreaming, wish I didn't.

Five years ago I took a class on OBE and Lucid Dreaming was part of it. I’ve never been able to hold an OBE but I got obsessed and pretty good at Lucid Dreaming. Several years later I was not getting good sleep and tried to quit Lucid dreaming. Every time a started to dream my consciousness thought it was Go time. Still happens occasionally.

 

[TheGreenPhantom]

An important point when discussing Datura: alkaloid content is known to vary a lot. So it can be difficult to know how much you're taking....

Here's an interesting article about it....

"The safe use of Datura may come from closely observing the interaction of other species, such as insects..." (p2)

I wonder what you'd need to look for...?

 

[Schahin92]

Lucid dreaming, wish I didn't.

Five years ago I took a class on OBE and Lucid Dreaming was part of it. I’ve never been able to hold an OBE but I got obsessed and pretty good at Lucid Dreaming. Several years later I was not getting good sleep and tried to quit Lucid dreaming. Every time a started to dream my consciousness thought it was Go time. Still happens occasionally.

What technique did you use?

 

[dithyramb]

As stated by a few others datura doesn't induce lucid dreams and does the opposite: it immerses you more in the dream, making it more real (=vividness). This is the same as it's effect when awake - your inner experience becomes an unconscious dream and takes over objective reality.

The species also matters. Stramonium is stimulating and it is not advisable to ingest it right before sleep. When the experience is over it can enhance sleep, making it more restful. I've read, but not experienced, that other species like innoxia are more sedating, and can be ingested directly before sleep to enhance sleep quality and perhaps dreams, but again, not to induce lucidity in dreams.

Lucidity with tropanes is an oxymoron...

Datura for me leans more towards the fantastic, and mandrake more towards the prophetic and/or emotional healing in their effects on dreams.

 

[dithyramb]

On the other hand, I must add that very low dose datura stramonium seeds when awake does appear to enhance lucidity for me - that is the opposite of it's known effect profile - but I have never experienced lucidity in dreams from it. There are much safer and simpler dream herbs. Valerian, mugwort, wormwood, Clary sage, guayusa... Even low dose amanita is better as a suggestion imo.

 

[Jamie01]

I figured it was cholinergic rebound hours later or something that helped people go lucid with tropanes and diphenhydramine etc but I don’t really know much about it.

 

[dithyramb]

Btw in my dream last night I saw datura plants and ate their seeds, and woke up to read this thread for the first time this morning (no ingestion was involved in the objective world)

it is in season in the northern hemisphere right now.

 

[doubledog]

An important point when discussing Datura: alkaloid content is known to vary a lot. So it can be difficult to know how much you're taking. It's probably a good idea to always start very low when trying a new batch.

Here's an interesting article about it. The authors had the hypothesis that maybe cultural taboos around Datura were stronger where the species used had more variation (because there would be more accidental overdoses, etc.). They found it to probably not be the case, but they have good information on the ranges of alkaloid content in different species and plant parts.

Variability of alkaloid content is very often mentioned, but my personal experience is that it's not that important factor. I have collected and sampled Stramonium seeds during years from various localities here where I live and my findings are that it's pretty consistent in strenght. I've never experienced significant variability.

 

[blig-blug]

Variability of alkaloid content is very often mentioned, but my personal experience is that it's not that important factor. I have collected and sampled Stramonium seeds during years from various localities here where I live and my findings are that it's pretty consistent in strenght. I've never experienced significant variability.

It has been found in analysis, so I don't think there's much doubt as to whether it actually happens. That doesn't mean it must happen always, everywhere. If you know your plants and your region I suppose it's fine, but that doesn't mean it's fine in the general case. Particularly when an overdose can be deadly.

 

[doubledog]

Just want to clarify: I do not want to say that Datura is in any sense fine. Quite the opposite, Datura is very dangerous, but imo, the danger is not very much in its variability.
Main danger is in tendency of uninformed users to recklessly take too high doses without knowing anything about strenght of the material.
Disregard of basic harm reduction principles has very serious consequences with this plant.