Potentially deadly! Datura seeds for lucid dreaming?

[Schahin92]

So dear community.

I read a story of taking low amounts of Datura seeds around 1-3 or 1-5 to have instant vivid and lucid dreaming at night.

What experiences have you done and is it really safe? Could there be variying potencies that do induce delirium if the seeds are too potent?

 

[1Starway7]

We shouldn't post links to stuff like this. Some one will inevitably take a spin and hurt themselves. Its a really interesting anecdote nonetheless. I have some seeds I got from the local library seed bankni might grow out as an ornamental

Ok i agree ill try to remove everything but the picture of the product...

 

[KTX]

So dear community.

I read a story of taking low amounts of Datura seeds around 1-3 or 1-5 to have instant vivid and lucid dreaming at night.

What experiences have you done and is it really safe? Could there be variying potencies that do induce delirium if the seeds are too potent?

As a novice psychonaut, but one who has been reading about these strong medicines for a long time, I would highly highly recommend steering far and clear away from Datura in any form.

In my experience, psychedelics open your mind, they help you to think of things in a new way, and help you reach conclusions you may not normally reach in an unaltered state. They can be extremely helpful tools for healing, learning about your own self, and generally finding your place in this chaotic existence we all share.

To my best understanding, Datura is not a psychedelic.
As far as I know, the active ingredients in datura are scopolamine and Diphenhydramine. Benadryl. Benadryl trips are not known for being enlightening, healing, or even pleasant, nor are datura trips. In fact, they seem to induce a delirium which can cause you to hallucinate people which are not there, and even have full blown conversations with them, and as well seem to induce terror and paranoia.

Psychedelics help me be more in tune with my own existence, and the universe that I inhabit, and which I am an aspect of. They help me embrace the temporary, ephemeral nature of my existence.
Datura makes people see the hat man. Miss me with that.

Stay safe, Schahin92. Regards.

Edit: It has come to my attention that I had originally used inappropriate language in this post. Apologies to anyone who had to read this. I have since read the Attitude page (Initially couldn't find it was I was looking for the word 'Rules') and will be more mindful of such things in the future.

 

[doubledog]

Idea of smoking some herbs to help with asthma seems to be quite weird, but as an asthmatic I can confirm that it really works very well with datura or belladona.

Tropane plants are not psychedelics and are not recreational at all.
It IS possible to have interesting and useful experience on it, but it's not simple to achieve it.
Set&setting&dose are extremely important.

 

[blig-blug]

I've been surprised to see twice an area full of (wild) Datura stramonium whose leaves appeared to have been harvested, leaving the seed pods and stems. It was not far from Madrid. Does anyone have an idea of what could someone be doing with such large amounts of leaves?

 

[Icon]

My friends and I took some seeds once or twice. I can't remember if it was inoxia or stramonium. The side effects were bearable by the time some psychoactive effects were noticed, but I decided it's too uncomfortable to explore further than threshold. If there was something to counteract the negative side effects I'd be curious to explore it deeper.

Besides the true hallucinations that can be interesting, I did notice an effect on my dreams that night. I became lucid and realized I was scrolling through a forum, the shroomery, and there were rectangular grids with avatars, names, written messages. When I paused to inspect one of these posts, I noticed it was all gibberish. It was English words, in an approximately grammatical syntax, but it was random words, as if it was auto-filled glossolalia. Like:

"Petro salt dice now blister dot. Grape correction an the scrape doodle clasp friction red. Memory beetle a film?"

Another dream I had that night was in my childhood home. Ninjas were tearing up the place, I was hiding behind a wall, then I was discovered and a ninja sword descended on me. Right as it struck I closed my eyes. Simultaneously, my alarm went off and I opened my eyes in reality. The timing with the alarm felt like more than a coincidence, like the dream itself was a countdown, that was impressively on point.

 

[doubledog]

I've been surprised to see twice an area full of (wild) Datura stramonium whose leaves appeared to have been harvested, leaving the seed pods and stems. It was not far from Madrid. Does anyone have an idea of what could someone be doing with such large amounts of leaves?

Datura naturaly loses its leaves in autumn, only stems and pods remain, it could appears harvested.

When I paused to inspect one of these posts, I noticed it was all gibberish. It was English words, in an approximately grammatical syntax, but it was random words, as if it was auto-filled glossolalia. Like:

"Petro salt dice now blister dot. Grape correction an the scrape doodle clasp friction red. Memory beetle a film?"

Ime quite typical Datura dream. Reading this gibberish text was one of very rare funny components of experience for me.

 

[blig-blug]

Datura naturaly loses its leaves in autumn, only stems and pods remain, it could appears harvested.

I know, but this wasn't the case: it was in early summer and the pods were still green. But maybe you're right in that they weren't harvested and had fallen for a different reason. I didn't see them there but I don't know how long ago they went missing. If it were a different plant I would have thought some animal ate it (cows, sheep and goats go by that area), but with Datura I don't think it could be a mammal.
There are some fields in that area and a stream that actually comes straight from a water cleaning plant, so I wonder if it could be some herbicide.

 

[dithyramb]

Pods in early summer? Never thought that was possible. Unripe pods only appear in September here. İf it was harvested, it could be for smoking for asthma, as mentioned in this thread, or perhaps making painkilling ointments. For psychoactive use the leaves are undesirable ime.

 

[Icon]

Datura naturaly loses its leaves in autumn, only stems and pods remain, it could appears harvested.


Ime quite typical Datura dream. Reading this gibberish text was one of very rare funny components of experience for me.

Now that I think about it, all of my hallucinations that I caught while awake were text-based. Doesn't help that it makes my vision blurry. Phantom fortune-cookie strip of paper stuck in the toilet bowl; some phantom text in the stitching of a chair's upholstery, a whole phantom notebook playing peekaboo with me in the dark.

All of those times, I would suspect I see something, then remind myself "Oh, it's probably nothing, just a hallucination." But that didn't erase the potential for it to be something, which itches. And I think when I gave in to that investigative impulse, it acts as a sort of psychological promotion that allows the hallucination to escalate. As if the hallucination is idea bait dangling on a line, and inspecting it closer sets the hook.

 

[doubledog]

All of those times, I would suspect I see something, then remind myself "Oh, it's probably nothing, just a hallucination." But that didn't erase the potential for it to be something, which itches. And I think when I gave in to that investigative impulse, it acts as a sort of psychological promotion that allows the hallucination to escalate. As if the hallucination is idea bait dangling on a line, and inspecting it closer sets the hook.

Imo you were lucky, because this is exactly where dosing should be - to be in a state of mind where you still can switch between "real" reality and "tropane" dream/hallucination and your focus or attention to these hallucinations allows them to unfold. It's like they are waiting eagerly for your attention.

No need to go deeper, there are only more dominant and immersive hallucinations, where you almost entirely forget that there is also a "real" world.

 

[DK_one]

Ok honestly I didn't read the thread.


But I still need to say be more then careful when consider any kind of datura.
This "visions" are the kind of of "visions" you maybe will not be able to differ from reality!

Example: guy smoking a cigarette talking with his friend. Next day he get to know his friend was not with him for about two months.

 

[doubledog]

My most brutal experience with Datura contained very complex hallucinated story, when I was in underground concrete room, watching people walking freely through walls in and out.
All of my attempts to find some doors or anything how it was possible failed.
I was extremely scared, I really needed to find the way out. After some time and lot of analyzing or thinking, I found out that these people used very simple method: They were able to switch between dimensions in that way that at the moment of crossing the walls, they made themselves two dimensional, which allowed them to do that. Immediately after that, they switched themselves back to 3D, walk few meters inside the room and again use same method to exit the room.
I was very proud of myself that I was able to find an explanation of their strange abilities. Then I spent some time to trying find a way to do the same. I was not succesful.

Fortunately, after some time I found out that there is a ladder (which was 20 cm from me whole time) and I can just go out using it.

Even this complicated story was just one small part of extremely unpleasant, dangerous and life threatening experience of Datura overdose. I ate probably 100 datura stramonium seeds that evening, maybe even more. To this day, I did not understand why it happened. Yes, some could say that I was young and stupid (which I definitely was) and did not know anything about datura. But that was not true, I did know something even then, it was not my first experience and I was part of small circle of people experimenting with the plant.

The only "reasonable" conclusion I came to is that Datura somehow tricked me into it, but it's hard to believe in such thing.
But I know for sure that I was very close to death that day.

Btw. To write this post has been very unsettling to me.

 

[northape]

Btw. To write this post has been very unsettling to me.

Thank you for sharing. It reads like some scary story, especially if you have some experience with these states. I am very cautious of daturas.

It is a high-level medicine for someone who knows what he is doing. From what I gather, it is the last plant they would use or diet in the Amazon. There are lots of cases of people losing their life or sanity. It is a magic plant that can accomplish what no other can, but working with it is an art and a calling.

Maybe you had a destiny to meet Datura and live. Most likely, it changed you in ways that would be hard to put into words. The amount of insight and resilience of the psyche one develops is beyond common comprehension. I never went as deep, but I got a glimpse of its power.

Much love

 

[NeitherHere]

As a novice psychonaut, but one who has been reading about these strong medicines for a long time, I would highly highly recommend steering far and clear away from Datura in any form.

In my experience, psychedelics open your mind, they help you to think of things in a new way, and help you reach conclusions you may not normally reach in an unaltered state. They can be extremely helpful tools for healing, learning about your own self, and generally finding your place in this chaotic existence we all share.

To my best understanding, Datura is not a psychedelic.
As far as I know, the active ingredients in datura are scopolamine and Diphenhydramine. Benadryl. Benadryl trips are not known for being enlightening, healing, or even pleasant, nor are datura trips. In fact, they seem to induce a delirium which can cause you to hallucinate people which are not there, and even have full blown conversations with them, and as well seem to induce terror and paranoia.

Psychedelics help me be more in tune with my own existence, and the universe that I inhabit, and which I am an aspect of. They help me embrace the temporary, ephemeral nature of my existence.
Datura makes people see the hat man. Miss me with that.

Stay safe, Schahin92. Regards.

Edit: It has come to my attention that I had originally used inappropriate language in this post. Apologies to anyone who had to read this. I have since read the Attitude page (Initially couldn't find it was I was looking for the word 'Rules') and will be more mindful of such things in the future.

Now you've got me curious if the scapolamine can be extracted at decent purity. That stuffs suppose to be helpful for stuff like motionsickness in the right doses. Probably a total fools errand but curious non the less.

Probably still wouldn't recommend the FAFO approach on this one though lol

 

[NeitherHere]

My most brutal experience with Datura contained very complex hallucinated story, when I was in underground concrete room, watching people walking freely through walls in and out.
All of my attempts to find some doors or anything how it was possible failed.
I was extremely scared, I really needed to find the way out. After some time and lot of analyzing or thinking, I found out that these people used very simple method: They were able to switch between dimensions in that way that at the moment of crossing the walls, they made themselves two dimensional, which allowed them to do that. Immediately after that, they switched themselves back to 3D, walk few meters inside the room and again use same method to exit the room.
I was very proud of myself that I was able to find an explanation of their strange abilities. Then I spent some time to trying find a way to do the same. I was not succesful.

Fortunately, after some time I found out that there is a ladder (which was 20 cm from me whole time) and I can just go out using it.

Even this complicated story was just one small part of extremely unpleasant, dangerous and life threatening experience of Datura overdose. I ate probably 100 datura stramonium seeds that evening, maybe even more. To this day, I did not understand why it happened. Yes, some could say that I was young and stupid (which I definitely was) and did not know anything about datura. But that was not true, I did know something even then, it was not my first experience and I was part of small circle of people experimenting with the plant.

The only "reasonable" conclusion I came to is that Datura somehow tricked me into it, but it's hard to believe in such thing.
But I know for sure that I was very close to death that day.

Btw. To write this post has been very unsettling to me.

In my opinion these reports are by far the most significant reports possible in the nexus and psych space. "STEER CLEAR : POISON! "

 

[doubledog]

Yesterday I was not able to finish that post due to very unpleasant emotions it triggered in me.

Just want to clarify few things:
Days after the events, I investigated little bit to understand what happened to me, so I know almost certainly that the concrete room exists in real world. It is some kind of water management structure.
Everything else was of course datura hallucination.
I also need to mention that I was physically injured during it, but did find it only later fortunately (due to painkilling properties of datura and total lack of own body awareness).

Most likely, it changed you in ways that would be hard to put into words. The amount of insight and resilience of the psyche one develops is beyond common comprehension

That's absolutely true. One can gain something very useful from datura, but my advice to anybody is clear: it's not worth it.

 

[dithyramb]

Regarding overdosing on tropanes, I never did it with datura but I did on mandrake. I don't know if it's just because I didn't go super crazy with the dose (anything equivalent to @doubledog 's 100 stramonium seeds is super crazy and I believe he is lucky to still be alive - for me 8 seeds has been the dose at which datura "told me" never go past that amount), I didn't get any delusions at all, but I got torturous physical side effects. Being collapsed on the ground, unable to get up or walk, my legs twitching uncontrollably, mouth and nose completely dry, unable to sweat, urinate or defecate, very blurry vision, heart racing like crazy etc. It was on top of rue and I don't know if rue was protecting against a delusional state, or if mandrake doesn't cause such extreme breaking off from objective reality as datura does. I tend to believe both. Delusions or physical side effects, they are equally deadly and horrifying, and all tropane containing nightshades cause both.

 

[TheGreenPhantom]

Plug this into your web browser:
Student Cuts Off Penis and Tongue on Datura

If this doesn't deter you from experimenting with tropane alkaloids, I don't know what will....

 

[blig-blug]

Plug this into your web browser:
Student Cuts Off Penis and Tongue on Datura

If this doesn't deter you from experimenting with tropane alkaloids, I don't know what will....

It's an interesting coincidence that Mayans performed ritual mutilations of penis and tongue! Although in their case it was piercing and circumcision rather than full amputation.

 

[Jagube]

I have a Brugmansia plant and have recently felt drawn to try it for dream enhancement / dream work without ingestion. The plant has also come up for me through some synchronicities, like bumping into pictures of it on the web without looking for them.

It's worth noting that the concentration of alkaloids is not consistent from plant to plant or between leaves of the same plant.

I've ingested small amounts of leaf in the past, and even though it was probably not enough for a substantial pharmacological effect, it would still mess with my mind, because I'd wonder: What if I have ingested more than I think, but have amnesia and can't recall it? It temporarily took away my grounding in reality and made me realize how much I had taken it for granted. And it confirmed how powerful the mind can be: when you know the plant can make you trip without you knowing you're tripping or even remembering you've ingested it, just thinking about it can make you question the nature of what you're experiencing. It also shows how powerful this plant is and how much respect it deserves. The mere realization of its effects is an initiation and a loss of innocence in a way; the plant literally enters your mind through words, like a spell.

I've seen its intoxicating effects described as "hot as a hare, blind as a bat, dry as a bone, red as a beet, mad as a hatter."

Last weekend I drank a moderate dose of ayahuasca and had three Brugmansia leaves by my bed and they also affected me in a similar way; probably a synergy of the pharmacological effect of the ayahuasca and the psychological effect of knowing what the leaves are capable of.

For dream enhancement there are safer alternatives like Calea zacatechichi, mugwort etc.

I've also been served toé (Brugmansia) in an ayahuasca brew in Peru. I drank it and sat down. After maybe 40 minutes I thought "I'm not feeling anything yet." And then I saw a bat flutter around under the ceiling of the maloca. It flew towards me, crashed against my forehead with a screech, and blood started dripping down my face. I thought Huh, what on Earth was that??? and then realized it was probably the toé and the 'party' was only getting started. Yet I still didn't "feel" anything. The only indication that the bat wasn't part of consensus reality was my reasoning that it was unlikely for something like that to happen and not to draw anyone else's attention.

But that was my second ceremony there. I have no recollection of what happened in the first one, but a friend who was there told me later on I spent most of the ceremony thrashing around, bumping into walls, talking to imaginary people etc.
Since no one else who drank the same brew had that kind of experience, I guess I'm sensitive to it.